Nirvana Is Dead, All Hail Opashoro

In case it wasn't blatantly obvious (which it was) Tarage:

-Yes, Opashoro is still better than Nirvana for magical BP, especially with the AM
-Nirvana still has avatar perp cost-, so it's still better for that
-Nirvana with AM3 will still (very likely) beat Opashoro for physical BP

None of this has changed. The reason the thread was bumped was because making Primes is a PITA, so Nirvana isn't really threatened by Opashoro anymore, because getting a stage 5 prime is obnoxious. That's why the conversation shifted SLIGHTLY to the topic of "is Nirvana actually unseated as the GOAT, because getting an Opashoro capable of beating it is really annoying?"

But nobody wants to talk about that because it's not a discussion. Opashoro stage 4 is Nirvana but better. It doesn't have the 40% DA/20 %TA on afterglow, but anywhere you'd care about that you need accuracy more and probably have multi-hit blood pact nerf anyway. The only thing Nirvana really has going for it absent the challenge of making Opashoro as a factor, is that it has perpetuation cost-, making it your top between-pacts staff.

The real debate is Opashoro vs. Grioavolr. BPD+40 and Lv.+2 didn't beat 140 MAB and 10 BPD, but what about BPD+50 LV.+3 and whatever the aftermath is worth?

Sorry, what? Stage 4 is better? It has literally no stats for physical BP that a Nirvana doesn't have. Are you OK?

I know tako, but what is walls?

I see, I didn't think about that but it sounds like it could make a real difference. Granted you would probably need a dual screen to make it efficient, alt-tabbing would create too much waste of time, I guess?
But yeah, I was having issues seeing how pushing movement speed so high would make a huge difference given how you have to stop, avoid stuff etc.

I'm no overskilled player and my personal record for solo is 18 floors. Exiting with like ~3 mins left I guess.
I have written it down that was 8100 tokens. Not sure if it's real 8100 (i.e. I actually got 10k but -1.9k it becomes 8.1k) or if it was 8.1k total.
Whatever, that's my best so far and not my average. It was a very lucky run I gotta say. Only one lamp order, no gears, one or two free floors and several kill single objectives where the single was right in front of the lamp.
Not sure what my "average" is but once i subtract the 1900 necessary to access floor 96 I'd say it's gotta be around 6000 or something above that?

I remember I used to get ~10k quite easily ages ago when I did run with two other friends (and a mule) but that's because we had a really good coordination and we were using the mule to warp-up and to spend the 1900, but solo I never managed to get that high honestly.

I use BLU BLU BRD, BRD is the lamp mule, and sings mazurka at the start of every floor.

The zone thing is very old, but two(ish?) years ago they added a forced disconnect if you go too fast for too long. It kicks you back to character select and you can login right back in.

It's tied to both being in a single zone for too long *and* going above +60% for too long. Nobody bothered investigating more, or at least nobody bothered sharing results of investigating. It was a good patch, it did more to dissuade fleehacking bots than anything else they had done before.

i think you might have movement speed gear. It will activate at 50% if you dont have movement speed but 25% appeared to be fine (I dont use it anymore its not worth the risk for a minor speed boost).

Also pos warping more than around 2 times would get you disconnected (might be a post warp distance involvement). You could however reset this with doing a legit warp like using a conflux in abyssea.

I would often warp to conflux
use conflux.
warp to the destination
and never get kicked
but if i did 3 pos warps it would definetly kick me out

The being in the zone to long never seemed to have an impact in my testing and i think that just a survivor from pre testing guessing


BTW it costed me 2 accounts to do the testing. so im really not recommending anyone using speedhacks anymore

To get back on topic, pretty sure it was all mathed out already when the stats were first released that Nirvana with AM3 still wins for Physical BPs even when Opashiro is Stage 5. Is this actually a question? The only thing the AM gives for Opashiro is magical related. Opashiro at Stage 3 is winning for Magical BPs, but even the old Espiritus and Grioavolr beat Nirvana for that, so this isn't relevant to Nirvana vs Opashiro.

For someone who does not want to make Nirvana, Opashiro is great alternative. The problem is that it takes so long to make a Prime and almost all of them are good, that you have to consider if it's worth it or not. SMN isn't useful hardly anywhere and the few places it is useful, Nirvana wins... so you are better off just making a different prime entirely and biting the bullet to make a Mythic you don't want to make. It's obnoxious, but after you do a couple of them it is less daunting.

Now... are you a SCH and/or BLM as well and don't mind saving TP and keeping up AM? Then it might be worth making for use with multiple jobs, but with SCH constantly swapping weapons for different buffs, it's mostly just a BLM weapon and magical BP tool for SMN. Again, I'm not saying I wouldn't use it if I had it, but I find it hard to justify making one.

Sorry, I meant fillmode for invisible walls to find or /check objectives quickly. Not sure why I called it that.

Yeah, I used dual monitors (its 2023 who the *** doesn't?), though you could probably use the tako always on top as well.

I must stress it's a very unfun way to run content. But NI isn't exactly thrilling either so the efficiency is at least nice.

IMO the best way is to just farm points during the NI event. At least that adds some excitement to NM drops so it doesn't feel so boring.

The tests that Mischief and SimonSes did for Opashoro suggest aftermath lv.3 was MAB +30 and likely M.dmg +30.

The effect of Pet Lv+1 is roughly +7.5 base stats, some atk and some acc and either 1 Melee DMG or 10 M.DMG. Which one gained depended one wether it was an even number gained or odd number gained.

Ok, but will a stage 3 possibly beat every other non-nirvana staff?

Asking for a friend

NO i think not!

No, stage 3 (no AM) doesn't even beat Nirvana and Nirvana wasn't the best for magical BP beforehand. With AM it'll be on par with Nirvana, but would lose to Grio. You would need Stage 4 with Aftermath to beat/be close to Grio, and Stage 5 would beat it handidly with AM and close with no AM.

It's very good for Flaming Crush though. Stage 3 is just behind Nirvana and should beat everything else. Stage 4 is basically tied with R15 Nirvana and beats it with AM up.

I believe stage 3 will also still beat Gridarvor on physical BPs. However, due to lack of perp down, you can't exactly toss your Gridarvor just yet.

I think making stage 3 is a perfectly viable alternative to making Nirvana, even if you never intend to upgrade to stage 4.

Is stage 3 better than a decently augmented Grioavolr?

I have 2 stage 4s. I've found that they are about on-par with their fully augmented REMA counterpart..."about on-par." Stage 5 is when the difference is unmatched.

Nirvana died with Kurt Kobain