What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-29 15:02:35
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Mattelot said: »
I don't think Draylo is trying to be negative just to be negative.

Yeah I know, I just think it's better to be a bit positive.

FFXI isn't in a bad place really.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-11-29 15:32:50
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If you want to see a real dead game, check out classic aion
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By Mattelot 2021-11-29 16:42:35
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RadialArcana said: »
Why does it matter if it's someone 6 boxing or 6 solo/casual players tho? Most endgame players won't be playing with them regardless.

I can't speak for everyone but we've done events with a full alliance and were only like 4 real people.

RadialArcana said: »
Yeah I know, I just think it's better to be a bit positive.

I agree, bud. I'm very thankful it still gets support.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-11-29 18:24:55
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Siren.Obysuca said: »
Afania said: »

If there's really any reason that FFXI declined, it's probably SE's bad decision to nerf REMA requirement many years ago, which caused many people rage quit at that time and never invested their time as much since then. Population took a hit after the requirement nerf.


The two? times SE stated that there'd be no more content after a specific date, but then actually released stuff after said date (RoV, odyssey, TVR etc), hurt the population a bit too.
Quite a number of people I know quit XI (close to half the active people on my friends list at the time) when they saw that back in 2014? 2015?

Yep. I quit after being told from SE that there would be no more Major Updates only Minor Patches. That was all the way back 5 years ago. Then I stumbled upon the NEWS of SJ cap breaking so decided to return again.

It was exciting seeing prices of REM items drop upon return knowing I could actually Afterglow my Wpn like everyone else did.

SE said The End so actually thought it was. Now I hear SJ planned to rise all the way up to 75 iirc which doesn’t sound like The End any longer.
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By Draylo 2021-11-29 18:43:11
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RadialArcana said: »
Draylo said: »
It really has been stagnating a while, and that is coming from someone who loves the game. The pop numbers always fluctuate but they are still not very high once you take out RMT and the countless people 6 boxing these days. Which is also helping into the stagnation as nobody teams up and people are just greedy now. SE is really to blame for it overall, they barely ever advertised this game even during its prime.

You have an overly negative view of the game, and it's not accurate. People have been negative nancies for the past 15 years with "ffxi is dying!!1!!", we're still chugging along just fine.

FFXI is still very profitable, still has a very stable playerbase all paying to play it and still has developers working to give us new content, not because they have to but because they want to keep working on it. If they wanted to leave, they could be re-assigned to another game but they don't want to be.

There are tens of thousands of players who login every day and enjoy it from all across the world, still new players coming to try it all the time. The reason is because there is no MMO like XI and the only new ones being made are more casual games to appeal to the wider audience. There is nowhere else for people like us that want a more difficult MMO to goto and so it still has a place and that isn't going to change.

If you love the game, work towards helping it and pushing positivity. Help new and casual players, be positive about it online etc.

XIV and XI are so different now that they can both exist side by side just fine and indeed profits from both being successful helps the division as a whole, devs from XIV help with XI content on occasion when needed. The company and division producer has even stated his long term support for the game into the future.

We went from yearly budget allocations to the previous one being a 3 year budget allocation, that's good because it shows confidence at a company level.

I'm not sure what else you can even want at this point to see the game in a positive light, they are going out of their way to re-assure us that they want to maintain the game long term. We are getting good updates, they are adding new story content, new endgame, new ways to level up. They even canceled the mobile version, to maintain all attention on the PC version.

Ontop of that there are still people who put a lot of effort into the game as a community for free. We have people that make and update addons, that keep windower updated, update the wikis, developers recently put a lot of effort to fix shouts/bazaars here, that make youtube content about the game to promote it, that do all manner of things.

Also, it has to be said that most XIV players in general are far more supportive of XI than they used to be, or at least they aren't negative about it as used to be the case. Maybe the producer stating he runs both games helped with that? I don't know but I have noticed a big change over the past few years.

Looking pretty good to me.

I mean, I'm probably the most positive voice for this game in ages lol. I am just calling it like I see it. While the game is still fun to me and has life left, I just feel it doesn't have to be so neglected by the company. Just take a look at their resources for the game, they are barely kept up. Yet XIV gets surveys sent to players who unsub, asking their opinion on the game.

There is just a really big disparity in the care they put into both games even tho both players are paying full subs. As far as the XIV players are more supportive now, its probably because they stopped caring about this game. Their game became a lot bigger due to all the ads and massive money pushed into it, so why would they care about a low pop game like this? I doubt they all of a sudden gained respect for XI somehow.

RadialArcana said: »
Why does it matter if it's someone 6 boxing or 6 solo/casual players tho? Most endgame players won't be playing with them regardless.

All that matters is if it's profitable, and it is. Cause this is what keeps it running and keeps content being made for our clique of friends.

It's become the majority! Literally every other person has at least 1~2 accounts. It has this trickle down effect and is causing more and more people to be forced to buy clears or quit, not to mention the effects on the economy. I don't see it as much of a positive outside of actually giving the company more money. I'd rather see them have real accounts and not multiple mules lol.
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-29 19:41:54
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
If you want to see a real dead game, check out classic aion

That's the 20th anniversary surprise, they gonna tell us they developing a cool new card collector game based on FFXI then shut down the servers.

:trollface:
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 Asura.Skyekitty
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By Asura.Skyekitty 2021-11-29 19:48:57
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Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

I do think they could put more into FFXI, but I do not blame them for a second for spending their time, if not all of it, on a game that caters to 24 MILLION active players.

That's just business.

That being said, FFXI FOR LIFE YO!
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By Draylo 2021-11-29 20:00:41
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24 Million, ok lol.

That is part of my opinion, SE could have been more successful with more marketing (ya know, not saying the game is ceasing updates or that its dead after console ending) and more love behind the product. They are obviously quite bad at business.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-29 20:40:44
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I'm not even sure FFXI needs the story or other content updates so much as it could use a little bit of marketing.

Our free trial is only 14 days with almost nothing included, and concludes with the ultimatum: buy and subscribe or lose everything.

You can't even find XI on their own web site. Seriously, even looking for the free trial got me "Did you mean FFXIV Free Trial?"

Advertise that the game is better than it was 18 years ago. Advertise that the game is a very different experience than XIV. Maybe bring back the reduced subscription cost for having both active. Maybe allow players already involved in XIV to have a less-restrictive free trial.

I don't even think it would be that difficult or expensive. You've already won with both the Everquest and WoW formulas, so push the option onto players. I can only imagine how many people only play XIV because they just think it's their only option. I know a lot of people who just think XI is a "less good XIV", so educate them otherwise. In the survey asking why they're quitting, ask if they've ever tried XI, and explain what makes it such a different game.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 03:27:58
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
I'm not even sure FFXI needs the story or other content updates so much as it could use a little bit of marketing.

Our free trial is only 14 days with almost nothing included, and concludes with the ultimatum: buy and subscribe or lose everything.
The only way to seriously increase the player base in FFXI

Remastered FFXI Edition on PS5 and XsX

The vast majority of the Final Fantasy player base is on Console.

When FFXI was released on XB360 was when the game was hyper active which came during the ToAU expansion.
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
I can only imagine how many people only play XIV because they just think it's their only option.
Indeed it is their only option on PS4.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 03:45:16
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By SimonSes 2021-12-01 04:06:29
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llAKs0nll said: »
Remastered FFXI Edition on PS5 and XsX

The problem with remaster is simple. Too risky to make it with archaic mechanics that FFXI is based on. Not only you risk current generation of players wont be interested in it, but also if you make it separate from FFXI. I mean you won't be able to transfer progress to remastered version, then you risk that many current FFXI players would drop it too. I for sure not going to be able to make the whole grind all over again and without time to grind everything again, there is no point to play it for me. Now with new mechanics, it will be too close to FFXIV.

The best solution would be graphic overhaul similar to Diablo 2 Resurrected (new graphic engine with old game playing underneath, so practically without any changes in mechanics. Additional big advantage of that solution is that current players with older PCs, could still play it with old graphic, like you can play D2R with old graphic too). That would cost them a lot tho and doesn't guarantee enough new players (again new generation might still find FFXI too oldschool, even with new graphic). So there is no incentive to make neither remaster or remake really.
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By kinkanat 2021-12-01 05:29:41
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1- The job system. It's just wonderful, there are jobs that changing the subjob changes a lot how you work and gives a lot of depth.

2- Team system. The system that should be copied by ALL MMOs, it makes you always want new pieces to improve your ws, mele, acc, fast cast sets. .....ademas that there are pieces that you will always remember by name, like the mithic or other pieces.

3- Combat system. It has the best targeting system that exists, the collaboration in combat with the skillchains and magic burst of different levels, elements and types gives a whole world of possibilities.

4- Enemies. Here the enemies want to kill you, it is not like in era 75, but it is still a dangerous world with enemies that require a lot of improvisation. Besides the fact that they can add sight, sound, blood, smell....and their weaknesses to piercing, slashing, magic, blunt....there are many things you can take into account when facing these enemies.

5- Varied classes. In most games unfortunately it all comes down to tank, heal and dps. Here the jobs buffers have a lot of importance, they are crucially vital and totally mark the battles, also tank with PLD is totally different from tank with NIN or PUP. That is to say that the class system of this game is unique and makes a mockery of other games where all DPS are practically the same, all tanks do the same thing. ....

6- Quantity and quality of content. This is vital, because FFXI has content that other games can't even dream of. Only Nyzul isle or Salvage have a depth that other games can't even dream of in their dungeons. They were better in the 75 era, much better, but they are still fun. But the amount and variety of content in FFXI makes it impossible for me to see better other games, because Omen, escha, assaults, einherjar, nyzul isle, salvage, dinamys, odyssey, HTBCNM, Unity, Voidwatcher....and much more content. AND ALL THIS CONTENT IS RELEVANT TO THE PLAYER GIVING EQUIPMENT THAT ALWAYS IMPROVES YOU, it doesn't just come down to glamour or ***.....


And I could go on and on about crafting or other unique aspects of the game. FFXI's philosophy has always been to give the maximum to the player in terms of quantity and quality of content.

Practically no current MMO can compare in quantity and quality to FFXI, that's why if you've played this game playing another one is like going from a spaceship to a scooter....
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By RadialArcana 2021-12-01 05:34:48
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Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense, I can fully explain how XIV gaslighting on playernumbers works if you like but honestly it's not necessary.

All games start at a high point, losing 50-60+% of their players over the coming 5-6 months (because most people treat an mmorpg as a single player game and leave) and then it stabilizes, peaking at new content and dropping down again between. XIV has similar numbers on average to the peak of XI back in the day of 500-600k (don't mention LBancho, he counts activity of characters during free access and you know it). Also all games have large churn, which means players quitting is at the same level or higher than new players joining. It's not the next wow, and it never will be. Even most XIV players will admit this.

The reason XIV is the flagship product of this division, is because a) it's the most heavily monetized game that exists and more importantly b) the majority of the audience of that game literally loves being the most heavily monetized playerbase in history.

I'm not saying this is bad, if they want to do that then good luck to them. I'm just pointing out older games audiences such as XI and wow have an aversion to cash shops and newer games audiences love them.

We can accept XIV is a successful MMO without the BS numbers game.

Quote:
Remastered FFXI Edition on PS5 and XsX


Consoles require patch certification, this would change patch frequency from every month to every 3 months. Patches have to be certified with the console company for "safety and stability" and there is a fee linked to this, PC has none of this. So you're not going to see a console port.

In regards to a remaster, the company spending a large amount of money on a game will only do so if the producer can guarantee that will increase income. The main way to increase income from XI is cash shops and dumbing down to appeal to the mass market. This would ruin XI for us.

Lastly, XIV is the flagship with high monetization. There is no way Yoshi P is going to promote XI above XIV when XI only has a subscription (in a world where inflation keeps devaluing that $12) over a game with a cash shop that rivals free to play games and players begging for more ways to throw money at them.

XI is a legacy product for US and for XIV players to play between patches when they burn out, nothing else.
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By Afania 2021-12-01 05:52:33
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RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021
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By RadialArcana 2021-12-01 06:10:37
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Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

That website is complete trash with madeup numbers, the sources they use are reddit subs among other things.

According to them wildstar is still running.
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By Afania 2021-12-01 07:09:18
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RadialArcana said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

That website is complete trash with madeup numbers, the sources they use are reddit subs among other things.

According to them wildstar is still running.

If you don't believe that one here is another one.
https://mmostats.com

FFXIV is second to Minecraft.

I can find many more website about FFXIV's number, if you want.

If you look at FFXIV expansion reviews from critics it's not tough to understand why FFXIV pop actually increased over the years. The dev actually cares about their players. So players will come.


"MMO starts dying after launch" is not a by all end all the only rule that applies to every title. There are outliers, like FFXIV, which actually gains players many years after launch.

Edit: found a few more links stating FFXIV having the highest pop.
https://www.technewstoday.com/mmo-with-most-population/
https://www.mmobyte.tv/the-10-most-played-mmorpgs-in-2021-the-best-mmos-to-start-right-now-in-2021/
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-12-01 07:12:38
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Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-12-01 07:34:27
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Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.
*** true people dont realize 90% of wow's Biggest streamers are now all streaming 14, even sodapoppin is now streaming it including Preach
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By Afania 2021-12-01 07:36:18
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Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.

FFXIV certainly has population increase in past 4 years. Whether it beats WOW is debatable though. Afaik many site separates wow and wow classic population, so FFXIV may not beat wow if you combine the population of classic servers.

Afaik FFXIV also has a steady retention rate compare with wow.

Comparing FFXIV pop with FFXI is kinda silly though. It's not even on the same league, not even close.

alzeerffxi said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.
*** true people dont realize 90% of wow's Biggest streamers are now all streaming 14, even sodapoppin is now streaming it including Preach


And Asmongold, too. All these big name influencers streaming XIV certainly contributed to it's population growth.
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By alzeerffxi 2021-12-01 07:40:13
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By alzeerffxi 2021-12-01 07:44:26
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kinkanat said: »
best targeting system that exists,
no................ but yes on everything else
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-12-01 07:44:39
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Afania said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.

FFXIV certainly has population increase in past 4 years. Whether it beats WOW is debatable though. Afaik many site separates wow and wow classic population, so FFXIV may not beat wow if you combine the population of classic servers.

Afaik FFXIV also has a steady retention rate compare with wow.

Comparing FFXIV pop with FFXI is kinda silly though. It's not even on the same league, not even close.

alzeerffxi said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.
*** true people dont realize 90% of wow's Biggest streamers are now all streaming 14, even sodapoppin is now streaming it including Preach


And Asmongold, too. All these big name influencers streaming XIV certainly contributed to it's population growth.

I've personally seen the player increase over the last year the main city hubs in XIV are absolutely packed. You can try telling this to the XIV haters and they call you a liar. I've recently taken an alt on the NA data centre through the story and I saw a lot of people while questing.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-12-01 07:53:17
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You folks are going to get this thread locked. Would you mind taking the "XIV players" discussion to PMs or maybe a different thread?
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By Chaplin 2021-12-01 08:09:29
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Afania said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.

FFXIV certainly has population increase in past 4 years. Whether it beats WOW is debatable though. Afaik many site separates wow and wow classic population, so FFXIV may not beat wow if you combine the population of classic servers.

Afaik FFXIV also has a steady retention rate compare with wow.

Comparing FFXIV pop with FFXI is kinda silly though. It's not even on the same league, not even close.

alzeerffxi said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
Asura.Skyekitty said: »
Draylo, I agree with a lot of your points, but you must realize that a game like FFXI, even at it's most popular, doesn't hold a candle to FFXIV's population base, which is still growing STEADILY.

This is not true and it's nonsense,


According to online data FFXIV does have the highest active player in 2021, even higher than wow.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Don't even bother most of them like to think that XIV isn't growing and XI is bigger than XIV.
*** true people dont realize 90% of wow's Biggest streamers are now all streaming 14, even sodapoppin is now streaming it including Preach


And Asmongold, too. All these big name influencers streaming XIV certainly contributed to it's population growth.

It’s too bad the only ones who care about streamers are 12 year olds. Seriously, why even bring that up as a point?
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-12-01 08:15:53
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
You folks are going to get this thread locked. Would you mind taking the "XIV players" discussion to PMs or maybe a different thread?

You brought it up in the first place.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-12-01 08:24:11
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Odin.Creaucent said: »
You brought it up in the first place.
Oh?

Looking back, my last few posts have been about: FFXI needing to advertise more, Abyssea, and a few on Bartel's Taxonomy (in regards to XI). I have one post about four pages back where I discuss XI in relation to the beta test of 1.0 XIV, but that's the closest I get to even discussing XIV.

Not sure how I'm the one who "brought it up in the first place". When I discuss XIV publicly, I bring it up subjectively and civilly.
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By llAKs0nll 2021-12-01 08:29:40
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SimonSes said: »
llAKs0nll said: »
Remastered FFXI Edition on PS5 and XsX

The problem with remaster is simple. Too risky to make it with archaic mechanics that FFXI is based on. Not only you risk current generation of players wont be interested in it, but also if you make it separate from FFXI. I mean you won't be able to transfer progress to remastered version, then you risk that many current FFXI players would drop it too. I for sure not going to be able to make the whole grind all over again and without time to grind everything again, there is no point to play it for me. Now with new mechanics, it will be too close to FFXIV.

The best solution would be graphic overhaul similar to Diablo 2 Resurrected (new graphic engine with old game playing underneath, so practically without any changes in mechanics. Additional big advantage of that solution is that current players with older PCs, could still play it with old graphic, like you can play D2R with old graphic too). That would cost them a lot tho and doesn't guarantee enough new players (again new generation might still find FFXI too oldschool, even with new graphic). So there is no incentive to make neither remaster or remake really.

What do you mean by “archaic mechanics” exactly? The mechanics in FFXI exist in every single Final Fantasy game outside of the WoW clone itself.

Are you claiming that WoW is the Future even when such is just as “archaic” as FFXI itself is?

They literally DELETED all of the Strategic RPG elements from FF and replaced such w/ mechanics of simple Run Away from Red Lines gameplay.

This is only a Fantasy Fantasy game by Name only.
YouTube Video Placeholder

Nothing Final Fantasy about 14 at all whatsoever.

To think that this is what Yoshi P claims everyone wants more of & not enough ppl want to play a REAL Final Fantasy game…..to warrant for them to Develop another one ever again. /disgust
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By Afania 2021-12-01 08:31:27
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Chaplin said: »
It’s too bad the only ones who care about streamers are 12 year olds.


Not sure if serious...if only "12 years olds" care about it, why would game companies pay tons of money to influencers to market their games?

It's obvious that influencers plays a big part when it comes to making money. This relevant to the point in this discussion.

Chaplin said: »
Seriously, why even bring that up as a point?

I wasn't the one who brought up XIV population discussion. Someone else did. I simply just supported some points with data on the internet.
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By Afania 2021-12-01 08:38:07
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llAKs0nll said: »
What do you mean by “archaic mechanics” exactly? The mechanics in FFXI exist in every single Final Fantasy game

None of the single player FF mechanics are nearly as complicated and unintuitive as FF11. Single player FF is known to have simple and easy to understood combat system IMO. I'd say FFXI is the outlier in the series.

When we need a spreadsheet, or python, to calculate optimal gear sets and write Lua to handle swapping 100s of gear sets in battles. It's hard to say such mechanic is not archaic mechanics tbh.

I don't ever recall having to use spreadsheets or python to build sets in any single player FF.
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