Am I the only one who isn't that enthused about the apparent effort to reward ratio on the new body? Unless the spell it casts is an Ilvl version of impact, which is highly unlikely since the text reads "able to cast Impact" rather than "Impact II", then the difference between this and twilight cape isn't really that much. Yes, those Ilvl nuking stats are nice, and the magic accuracy is always welcome, but you don't cast impact for the nuke damage so much as the stat debuff the spell inflicts. And impact is typically paired with manawell and elemental seal anyway.
That's not to say I wouldn't love the upgrade, just that the shinryu fight is living hell and they're making us run through hoops for a tiny gain. If the drop rates suck I think I'll end up farming it casually and put it in the "I'll get it when/if it drops" category rather than "must have".
New HTBF Shinryu 2.0
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New HTBF Shinryu 2.0
Auto-Reraise always seemed like something they should have given to mages instead of WAR PLD DRK BST DRG. If a Melee/Tank gets back up, he is pretty useless for the most part. At least if a mage gets unlimited reraises, they can help support the party in the case of a wipe (or help other people get back up), which is likely where the set would come in handy anyways.
~130 macc is a tiny gain?
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Fenrir.Melphina said: » impact is typically paired with manawell and elemental seal anyway.
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Not stoked by those items to say the least, now I can cast Impact with iLvl stats, which is nice, but maybe not worth the hassle. The dagger might be very niche offhand? The actual fight might be fun, I definitely enjoyed the regular version. Thinking about this on VD makes me become uncomfortable.
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It's more that elemental seal already gives a 200 magic accuracy buff, so if what you're going to be nuking doesn't resist dark damage you're probably going to be able to land it anyway, and if it does resist dark damage then it probably won't make a difference. When I fought Marmokrebs, Raskovnik, and Ongo I landed impact without any trouble whatsoever, and it lasted the full duration every time. I don't see how having an Ilvl version of the cloak would have mattered. In those fights you cast impact to make the burst windows better. Impact itself is rarely ever bursted, so the difference between twilight cloak and an Ilvl version is..... minimal at best. Free nukes aren't exactly Blms strong point because of how elemental magic works right now. It's all about the magic bursts. Impact is just an enabler for bigger and better things. It in and of itself is not the primary focus.
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Quote: impact is typically paired with manawell and elemental seal anyway. Its not tho, or at elast it shouldnt be. Its one of the best spells in the game and its heavily underused. It also costs 666 mana and the amount of fights you bring a black mage to is minimal. I know mages have a lot more tools to sustain their mana pool than they used to, but you can't go flinging that around willy nilly without it draining your groups resources heavily. There's usually far better ways to spend your mana than impact, so it's usually reserved for single target big fights. And that means magic burst. Which also means stacking ele seal and impact. It's a utility spell, but not a primary focus. Kind of like death, which is also something you don't see people flinging around like candy for the very same reason.
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Fenrir.Melphina said: » Am I the only one who isn't that enthused about the apparent effort to reward ratio on the new body? Unless the spell it casts is an Ilvl version of impact, which is highly unlikely since the text reads "able to cast Impact" rather than "Impact II", then the difference between this and twilight cape isn't really that much. Yes, those Ilvl nuking stats are nice, and the magic accuracy is always welcome, but you don't cast impact for the nuke damage so much as the stat debuff the spell inflicts. And impact is typically paired with manawell and elemental seal anyway. That's not to say I wouldn't love the upgrade, just that the shinryu fight is living hell and they're making us run through hoops for a tiny gain. If the drop rates suck I think I'll end up farming it casually and put it in the "I'll get it when/if it drops" category rather than "must have". I'm not that impressed really for how annoying it will be to do the gimmick or mechanic to get drops also. They can't just have a straightforward fight you got to face west on earth day to proc it. Fenrir.Melphina said: » It's more that elemental seal already gives a 200 magic accuracy buff, so if what you're going to be nuking doesn't resist dark damage you're probably going to be able to land it anyway, and if it does resist dark damage then it probably won't make a difference. When I fought Marmokrebs, Raskovnik, and Ongo I landed impact without any trouble whatsoever, and it lasted the full duration every time. I don't see how having an Ilvl version of the cloak would have mattered. In those fights you cast impact to make the burst windows better. Impact itself is rarely ever bursted, so the difference between twilight cloak and an Ilvl version is..... minimal at best. Free nukes aren't exactly BLms strong point because of how elemental magic works right now. It's all about the magic bursts. Impact is just an enabler for bigger and better things. It in and of itself is not the primary focus. Impact should be cast on EVERY NM in the game. -20% to all stats is amazing for all setups, not just nukes. On 139-150lv NMs its usually like -70~80 STR/VIT/DEX/MND/INT/CHR/AGI. It lowers def and evasion. It boost fSTR and dDEX a lot. It helps land debuffs. It lowers damage of NM's TP moves and melee hits. It should be cast by every support job having access to cloak unless that support job needs to conserve MP. Fenrir.Melphina said: » It's more that elemental seal already gives a 200 magic accuracy buff I think thats some super outdated info, assuming it was ever accurate. ES probably just set your magic accuracy to 95% or something. Quote: Lv99 White Mage / Black Mage / Red Mage / Dark Knight / Summoner / Scholar / Geomancer Are we talking about different items or are you really confused that you need Elemental seal to cast it or something? Edited post: Yeah, I think I was more expressing my sentiments about blm's place in the current without realizing it meta when I originally typed this out. Not really relevant to the conversation at hand so I'll remove it. It would have been nice if the new Twilight set had DT on it. When you put this stuff on paladin it's usually because things are falling apart. At least now it's ilvl and has meva/mdb.
Fenrir.Melphina said: » Unless the spell it casts is an Ilvl version of impact, which is highly unlikely since the text reads "able to cast Impact" rather than "Impact II", then the difference between this and twilight cape isn't really that much. Especially when combo'd with Burn (and the +stat reduction gear BLM gets), it levels out magic resists. So the difference is rather large that you can be able to land impact for longer than 4s on the regular. That being said.... the effort v reward is a bit premature atm. Though from the sound of it, it's possibly more effort than relying on random COR chance for Mr. Ongo. Though in the long run, even at ***drop rate, it's a good investment. Fenrir.Melphina said: » That would require people to actually...you know....bring black mage to every fight in the game. Lv99 White Mage / Black Mage / Red Mage / Dark Knight / Summoner / Scholar / Geomancer Are we talking about different items or are you really confused that you need Elemental seal to cast it or something? You know this spell cant even be fully resisted right? Only duration can be resisted (which is a huge deal considering mp cost). RDM can easily cast it fully unresisted on almost anything that doesnt hard resist dark element. SCH can cast very accurately too and with huge reduce in mp cost. WHM is usually /sch so can also reduce MP cost and can also equip tons of macc to support landing it. Same for GEO. Even SMN can land it. Damn even DRK can land it (and get tons of TP in the process). No idea why you are fixed on only BLM using it.
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Indi Spell
Geo Bubble Impact Afk for 3 mins Repeat
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Fenrir.Melphina said: » It was originally so bad that 95% of people cleared it with primeveal brews and never touched it again. If the new version repeats the process then the effort to get that body for the reward is very hard to justify for the amount of time's you'll even be able put the damn thing to use. I was mercing Shinryu with friend. We never used brew. We both duoboxed 2 chars (one being THF mule just for TH), so not even a full party. We had like 95%+ kill rate. It was only bad, if you haven't known what to do and when. It only costs merits to try, and those are free. So of course I still plan to try and get one. I recognize the difference between the two and as Fae pointed out, the Ilvl stats are relevant. I'm more unhappy with the general state of blm itself than the fact that the cloak is what it is. Sorry if I sounded overly harsh with my analysis on the piece.
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While your points about elemental seal are not wrong. There are a lot of fights (ambuscade in particular) where I like casting impact a lot more than once every 10 minutes. My rdm has enough refresh that even with a moderately fast paced fight, I can still cast impact 6 or 7 times before I even need to think about using convert.
Is it needed? No, of course not. Do I like the idea of giving my rdm the option to not sub /blm any time I want to use impact? Hell yeah! Edit: about the rewards. we can reserve judgment until we see all the items. If there is a twilight belt equivalent, it has the potential to be really good, maybe a good twilight cape that has int/mnd/mab AND increased weather bonus. Who knows
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: » Really? In all the times I ever fought Shinryu (And I fought him a lot), I don't think I ever saw it cast death. Edit: Still don't have a twilight mail. Oh, it does. Was reminded recently (around the time the MNK WS update ocurred) when I was soloing it on MNK/THF for a Twilight Cloak. Took 19 kills and about 4 of them I had to zombie because he got Death happy. '-') What about Crepuscular Torque DT+10, Crepuscular Belt DA+20, Crepuscular Cape weather bonus +50?
Hidden effect: Savage Blade +50% Crepuscular Belt better be sporting 20 TA.... :P
Quote: resets all JA timers This ***was annoying as *** when you were trying to solo on THF and you need to survive long enough with healing waltz/perfect dodge etc until you got the proc and used the brew SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Melphina said: » It's more that elemental seal already gives a 200 magic accuracy buff, so if what you're going to be nuking doesn't resist dark damage you're probably going to be able to land it anyway, and if it does resist dark damage then it probably won't make a difference. When I fought Marmokrebs, Raskovnik, and Ongo I landed impact without any trouble whatsoever, and it lasted the full duration every time. I don't see how having an Ilvl version of the cloak would have mattered. In those fights you cast impact to make the burst windows better. Impact itself is rarely ever bursted, so the difference between twilight cloak and an Ilvl version is..... minimal at best. Free nukes aren't exactly BLms strong point because of how elemental magic works right now. It's all about the magic bursts. Impact is just an enabler for bigger and better things. It in and of itself is not the primary focus. Impact should be cast on EVERY NM in the game. -20% to all stats is amazing for all setups, not just nukes. On 139-150lv NMs its usually like -70~80 STR/VIT/DEX/MND/INT/CHR/AGI. It lowers def and evasion. It boost fSTR and dDEX a lot. It helps land debuffs. It lowers damage of NM's TP moves and melee hits. It should be cast by every support job having access to cloak unless that support job needs to conserve MP. Fenrir.Melphina said: » It's more that elemental seal already gives a 200 magic accuracy buff I think thats some super outdated info, assuming it was ever accurate. ES probably just set your magic accuracy to 95% or something. Ideally, yes, it should always be cast. Realistically, its severely unrealistic. Its cast time is massive and its mana cost is insane, its duration can be resisted... its a LOT of investment by a job that generally has other priorities as well. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Ideally, yes, it should always be cast. Realistically, its severely unrealistic. Its cast time is massive and its mana cost is insane, its duration can be resisted... its a LOT of investment by a job that generally has other priorities as well. With capped fast cast it's just 2.4 sec casting time. Nothing massive at all. SCH and /sch can cast it for like 300MP? Nothing insane. Also SCH and BLM can get 1000TP casting it and immediately use Myrkr to get back more MP than they used, so it's free for them.
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SimonSes said: » Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Ideally, yes, it should always be cast. Realistically, its severely unrealistic. Its cast time is massive and its mana cost is insane, its duration can be resisted... its a LOT of investment by a job that generally has other priorities as well. With capped fast cast it's just 2.4 sec casting time. Nothing massive at all. SCH and /sch can cast it for like 300MP? Nothing insane. Also SCH and BLM can get 1000TP casting it and immediately use Myrkr to get back more MP than they used, so it's free for them. Capped FC requires gear unless you are rdm, or using stratagems. Not to mention you need the cloak in precast... which eats 2 slots. Youre not likely to be casting with capped FC unless you build empy staff, which is a tall ask for an investment. Sch might have other duties and/or uses for stratagems. Myrkr requires a specific set to get back a decent amount of mana at 1k TP. Ive had to get rid of my set long ago because inventory hell. These are all situational, not something that makes it extremely easy to just spam, especially if you get a hard resist and it only lasts a few seconds. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Capped FC requires gear No ***lol :D Every mage that can use cloak should also have capped FC set. Even if FC is almost capped, its still less than 4 sec. Its not THAT long. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Myrkr requires a specific set to get back a decent amount of mana at 1k TP. You can easily make max MP set from gear you have, you dont need ANY extra gear just for Myrkr.
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SimonSes said: » Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Capped FC requires gear No ***lol :D Every mage that can use cloak should also have capped FC set. Even if FC is almost capped, its still less than 4 sec. Its not THAT long. Bismarck.Nyaarun said: » Myrkr requires a specific set to get back a decent amount of mana at 1k TP. You can easily make max MP set from gear you have, you dont need ANY extra gear just for Myrkr. Alright, now how much FC are you going to have as most jobs without empy staff, head slot or body slot? Chances are, not capped. FC isnt that easy to cap for most jobs, let alone without 2 major FC slots, let alone for the average player that doesnt have bis sets to begin with. The idea that youll be casting under 3 seconds is unrealistic outside of potentially rdm or sch with specific strat usage, or /sch with specific strat usage... which requires you to be able to use the strat for that specific spell. You can make an MP set with gear you have on you, you cant make a max mp set. You arent going to be netting all that much MP back from it at 1k TP. Youre also locking yourself out of actions for the cast time of the spell, and the duration of the WS. Thats a LOT of time investment that you cant dedicate to whatever your role in the party is.
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Your role is to help your group win, not whatever your job's nominally defined role is. Keeping up Impact whenever possible is going to help the group a hell of a lot, and in 99% of fights a mage can take 6 seconds off to land a very potent debuff.
Think they would give us pre-nerf Twilight Scythe 119?
Asura.Geriond said: » Your role is to help your group win, not whatever your job's nominally defined role is. Keeping up Impact whenever possible is going to help the group a hell of a lot, and in 99% of fights a mage can take 6 seconds off to land a very potent debuff.
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