Picking Up The Scythe?

Do you need Sakpata in C tho if you can simply drain 3 something and keep 7-10k hp with dread spikes on top? I guess you could nvds absorb vit instead for more damage if you don't use it on drain 3.

In general yes. There are enough darkness resistant mobs in C that keeping 5-6k life cannot be relied upon, let alone having the opportunity to actually magic burst for 10k. There are targets that drain decently, but you cannot rely on having access to them when your timers are up.

And then there are the enemies, they can potentially hit really hard. Even a normal Manticore mob can slap you in the face with a 5k Deadly Hold if you aren't in DT, and there are plenty of others looking to oneshot folks who let their defenses slip up before you even get into the NMs. As an anecdote I was soloing Sheol A a while back, and after taking down a halo with 10K HP I decided to fight a random NM, popped the Goobue, and ate a 9,770 uppercut to the face. You better believe that mobs in Sheol C want to murder you, because they absolutely will if you let them.

As for absorbs, they make good pulling tools for grabbing targets while the tank is mass pulling, but I wouldn't use JAs on them. Those are for drains only.

TP moves from mobs are dangerous enough that some people consider WSing in DT sets, and while I wouldn't go as far as to recommend that on DRK, having a good hybrid set goes a really long way. Sakpata has good DD stats except for accuracy, and Odyssey is generally low accuracy content anyway, so it works well. And then there is the magic evasion, I am resisting far more status ailments now that I'm using a Sakpata hybrid set over my standard DD gear.

I'm going to sound repetitive, but Sheol C is no joke.

Ok different question then, Hjarrandi body, ambu back and 2x moonlight rings are 32% pdt already and those synergize very well with Liberator. How much pdt more you need to be safe?

MB with scythe is easy. Weapon bash + right ws and you can mb drain 3. Even if something resist darkness, it should still do few thousands with Magic Burst.

Lastly while Sakpata isn't the best with Liberator am3, it's still not that bad at attack cap, so you can still wear it if you need meva.

"Safe" is a very relative term, and even more so in Sheol C.
There are so many different mobs with so many different things to watch out for that it really does make sense to use a catch-all set like Sakpata.
Having access to Drain3 HP on top of Seigan/Third Eye, Dread Spikes, and DT gear generally gives me a lot more survivability than my DD partner (usually SAM, but sometimes WAR or MNK), which is why I'm the designated one to go after particularly nasty targets like the Agon Clearmind off the Troll halo.
But those layers are not guaranteed. Third Eye falls off, Drain3 is a crapshoot based on what mobs you have access to when timers are up, dark resistant mobs (and mob magic evasion in general) make Dread Spikes a lot less reliable, status effects happen, and so on.
Generally the safest bet for Nostos mobs is to treat them like particularly dangerous Dynamis-D mobs, like your Beastmasters and Ninjas. Whack on them a bit and save TP to the 2k mark and kill them with a WS before the target has an opportunity to WS.
It works most of the time, but when it doesn't things can go bad fast.

As for bursting Drain3, that is a mixed bag. I'm not exactly sure what is going on with their resistances, but I suspect it is a combination of factors. Generally resistant mobs are in the 50% SDT range, but some feel higher than that, and I suspect that they have a higher than average magic evasion as well. It is certainly not purely a magic accuracy issue, as last weekend I managed to space out while changing jobs and gearing up, and entered a segment farm as Drk/Blm. Yeah I messed that one up, but it gave me a chance to stack Dark Seal and Elemental Seal for silly levels of magic acc, and on resistant targets that made zero difference.
So, as far as bursting goes, if I want to burst its generally something like a weapon bash to Infernal Scythe because I have to be sure not to kill the mob with the skillchain. And if I'm doing that, it generally means that I'm fighting a mob with a degree of safety, and that I'm not worried about retaining Aftermath. And there is a balancing act going; do I want to drain a resistant mob now? Is the next pack going to be resistant as well? Are we popping an NM in the near future? When a group is going for high segment numbers you are always pressed for time. If all the stars align and I can conveniently burst Drain3? Great, I will. Most of the time the stars do not align like that in Sheol C.

You know how much I love my Liberator. You have also probably gotten a sense of my distaste for how braindead Caladbolg builds can be. I know I get mad every time Torcleaver decides to flaunt its 5% miss rate in my face.
I've been 6/6 on R15 Dark Knight weapons for probably 6 months now, and having played around with all of them Caladbolg with a Sakpata hybrid set really does feel like the best all-around setup for Sheol C segment farm.
That is not to say that I don't use Scythes, I do. Apocalypse as a backup weapon is invaluable. When I burn myself out of MP from drains/absorbs/dread spikes/riddle I generally pop onto Anguta briefly before getting back on Calad.

It is very easy to look at how things should be on paper, but Odyssey Sheol C is the perfect example of situational reality slapping theory in the face.

I'm different on this I don't think you need it at all. I don't use any sakpata as all and do fine in sheol c tbh. We do different buffs depending on the group I go with. Sometimes it's minne sometimes is 3 minuets 2 march. I don't think I've had a problem ever with drain 3 inside but I also only drain mobs I know can be drained. Honestly alot of I guess depends on the group the war cor and bard I go with do great dmg. Tank normally holds hate just fine and with 2 weaponskills the mob is dead with scythe or a torcleaver and 2 hits from calad its dead.

I guess I should probably clarify this

Do I think that Sakpata and Caladbolg are required for segment farming Sheol C?
No I do not.

I do believe that the combination of the two is currently the most optimal setup, however.

I'll take not required for it but I truly don't think sapakta makes or breaks a run. I've also never been in the zone with another dd beside war and we put up great numbers while skipping most of the ***mobs. I've never had a problem with gobbues one shot manicores we don't mess with the slashing damage stuff I normally notice but it's only because torcleaver or lib damage drops to half of it but normally a three step from scythe kills the mobs. Torcleaver just goes from like 62kish to like 30kish but even then light sc kills it or tank has enough hate.

if people's idea of acceptable damage in Sheol C to be 3 stepping a non-NM to kill it, please try Loxotic+1/Blurred+1. On the slashing resistant type mobs, you'll immediately cut your kill time from 3 WSs to 2, meaning a much lower chance for a TP move to go off.

I dont think that 2 WS with 68.75% haste club are faster than 3WS with 80% haste AM3 Liberator (or 2x Insurgency with holding TP). Not to mention you lose AM3 by switching to club.

I'd agree if you're using Liberator, the loss of AM3 is a huge DPS loss. In fact, the times I go into C on DRK (admittedly not nearly as much as I COR), I typically avoid Liberator due to AM maintenance. For me it was almost all Redemption or Caladbolg depending on my mood. If I had needed a little more safety, Apoc would make a fine choice.

In terms of the haste difference due to 1handed weapon not benefitting from Hasso, my experience is that Judgment just does so much more damage on the slashing resistant mobs that the loss isn't nearly as noticable as it may appear on paper.

But I already 2shot the slashing resistant mobs? The skillchain damage off a Light or Darkness is enough that they die in 2 WS from Torcleaver to Torcleaver under Calad, or Entropy <=> Cross Reaper under Anguta. The other Scythes work too, but I find for my purposes Anguta is generally my go-to damage scythe in Sheol C, mostly because I'm on it to refill MP, but it still works just fine

WAR disguises a lot of faults, too. You are getting Warcry TP Bonus on CD plus your partner DD is targeting weakness to keep speed up. DRK is actually amazing for segment farm but you really need a partner who can cover for the fact that you are amazing with one damage type and can't cover the other two.

Yeah but following that logic why not 2xwar or war+sam or war+drg etc. DRK doesn't really excel in slashing (unless maybe if you can reliably get very high Delirium proc)

I agree and I wish more people took this seriously. DDs should be fighting together in at least, floors 3-4, where a mob can take down someone in 3-4 hits or 1 TP move. Given that zone lag is also terrible, you may not see status effects land or even damage taken appear on your screen.

It's best to operate as a unit when confronting mobs, pull as a group, debuff, engage and /assist as needed. This should consistently net you 4-5k segments. If your group has excellent synergy, you can divide and conquer within a room, and potentially get 6-7k segments. However, that leaves little room for mitigating risk, and will require some of the quickest recoveries you've ever performed in FFXI when bad stuff happens. (The zone lag and packet loss are real, so the bad stuff can be beyond anyone's control).

Lmao I remember that!
It was on the last floor of Sheol A, funny moment xD

Maybe some times but not as much as you think tbh. Slashing resistance just means one more ws which really isn't that big of a deal tbh. Again I'm sure we kill different stuff from other though so

In my static I'm the only WAR so we usually run WAR + CORx2 or sometimes WAR + SAM or DRG + SAM just to vary things up. I don't play DRK and we don't have one in our group, but when I've seen DRKs in pickup segment farm they seem pretty effective, holding TP to nearly one-shot slashing-weak mobs with Torcleaver?

Why do people keep saying this? 1 extra WS on a target means TP time + WS animation, for a 2 hander at haste cap that's about 8 seconds to the finishing of the animation. Killing 120 Nostos mobs in a Sheol C run isn't that out of the ordinary. Let's pretend that 1/3 of the mobs killed in a run would be slashing-resistant, and require that extra 8 seconds.

8seconds x 40 mobs= 320 extra seconds, or 5 1/3 minutes. In a 30 minute timed event, those 5 minutes of lost time are HUGE.


You are quite a high end DRK, and I'd never dream of telling someone what to do if what they're doing is working. I'm specifically talking to those who think 3 WSs for a Nostos mob and its super low HP is acceptable for the job with the most natural attack and PDL in the game. We're built for damage. If you can't keep up with a DRG, SAM or WAR inside Sheol C, maybe don't come on DRK.

Facts

Celebrindal, I was starting to get huffy feeling that you were ignoring my comments and started typing out something snarky, and then I realized I had completely missed your second statement.
My bad, sorry about that.

That said, I realize I came into this thread where someone asked about using Scythe as an entry level weapon for Sheol C, and I got noisy about high level optimization. It is not my intention to get in anyone's way or to crap on folks who are honestly doing their best.

Right now I'm working on pushing my Odyssey static to the 8-10k segment/run mark, and that involves a LOT of fine tuning. Honestly the challenge at the high end of segment farming is less about optimizing individual damage, but in cutting down or eliminating downtime. Getting 6 people firing on all cylinders for 30 minutes is a real challenge. Group cohesion, coordinating buff timing, and doing your damnedest to make sure no one is waiting for anyone else at any time is hard and can be overwhelming for some players.

I think I already stress my group out about this sort of thing, I really don't need to vent it on you guys as well.

no worries Mims. Same boat here. My group has been in the 6.5k-7k segments in our sleep mode for a bit now, and so we're in that super-critical phase where every STEP even is analyzed. Its nice to have content like this again, where going OCD shows benefits.

And if we're going to turn this discussion back to "entry level weapon" for Sheol C, I'd point people to your comment a few months back about Lycurgos. That thing is stupid good and encourages good DRK habits like riding Drain3 from day one, without the delay of building a RMEA. Since I first saw ya mention it, its been my go-to suggestion for newish DRKs.

Kind of a more broad question is "Why DRK in Odyssey at all?"
Which is good question to be asking.
DRK has the potential to be a whole lot tankier than other DD jobs, and to be sturdy while still dishing out top notch slashing damage.
Yes, not all of our defenses will necessarily be available at any given time, but we're pretty much guaranteed to have access to something. My group feels a lot more secure with me on DRK because they know if there is a particularly dangerous mob they can leave it to me and worry much less about losing time with a death.
Also, DRK has a much easier time than a lot of jobs killing targets in a single WS.
As always there are ancillary utility options we've got, but I don't think I've ever had someone claim that DRK was bad in Odyssey. Theres a very good reason that people specifically shout for them for PUG segment farms on Asura.

As for other jobs, sure, they are also good. Many of them have better piercing or blunt options than DRK. Some jobs face similar restrictions as we do, like MNK or to a lesser degree DRG. That is fine and those jobs bring their own advantages and are worth having. The best Odyssey group is going to be the one that sticks together, covers each others weaknesses, and works well as a team, and that is a good thing!

Preach ON. Getting familiar with who you run with and their tendencies will be a bigger improvement than any gear choice.

Why do people keep saying that everyone gets one shot? Like legit ive had a mob very few mobs be more than 1 hit away from dying anyway from a SC to a non slashing weak mob. Your assuming that everyone has the same geared drk like I am at a point. Everyone assumes everything that doesn't get hit for 60k to 70k WS means its resistant to that damage type. If im hitting a mob that isnt slashing weak for 30k-40k its gonna be okay I dont need 9k segments a run every run. Hell im willing to beat most getting around 10-11k a run are using movement speed and other stuff that isn't allowed in general. I guess if you talking pugs idk because im pretty sure most pug drks aint the same as top drks so idk.
Edit: Just saw you comment about me being a bad drk and maybe you should check first but its very rare I loss to dmg on drk. When I say 3 WS i just because I didnt get a crit form AM3 for a normal attack to finish it off otherwise its mostly one shot im pretty sure I dont lose to anyone in your group either so yea save that comment for someone else. I wasn't talking nostos mob btw im talking the beastmen.

Muuuuch lesser. Turns out DRG is pretty baller with Naegling.

Naegling DRG has almost 10k dps. It's actually more than with Trishula (Trishula obviously beats it with skillchains) and more or the same than most dps jobs with their main weapon. Naegling DRG is as good slashing option (if not better, because it has no LR down phase) than DRK lol.

And I'm talking about drg/sam, because DRG/war Naegling completely outdamage DRK and piercing options on DRG.

Yeah, I did a lot of (haven't touched Jumps yet) the math last night. I was both disgusted and amused.

And I ended up underselling it because I forgot one handed mainhand acc caps at 99%.

I thought it was 95%, and only 9 for monk h2h? Maybe pup also but meh pup.

Facts for sure but this was for nms I should've worded better normal mobs die the same from two ws.

1 handed weapons have 99% hit cap 2 handed 95%, h2h later got bumped up to 99%, think in cases of dw mh has 99% oh 95%