Lilith HTBF

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Lilith HTBF
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By SimonSes 2020-05-15 10:34:12
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Cerberus.Hideka said: »
Bismarck.Ringoko said: »
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Draylo said: »
You're essentially bypassing a mechanic of the fight that was intended by the devs as part of its difficulty. It isn't the same as just using windower. Not to get into that debate but just pointing that difference out.
so what if we bypass that mechanic of the fight. like 99% of us are doing the exact same thing. Unless you're a masochist then I can totally understand.

Hyperbole much?

Exploit/blatant cheating aside, this could probably be replicated by using sufficient knock back gear and sacrificing a minor amount of DPS.

As an aside, what's wrong with a little pain? It's quite titillating.

unless im mistaken knockback down gear doesnt stack. iirc i stacked +6 and got knocked back the same as +2

On Lilith? I think she has 2 knockbacks, maybe you are mistaking TP move one with her regular one on auto attacks?
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2020-05-15 12:08:50
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Knockback gear does stack but if anyone without it on also gets hit you'll get knockback even with the gear on.

This is what Square-Enix said:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/46865-Knockback-Mechanics?p=548329&viewfull=1#post548329
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2020-05-15 12:29:32
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It's actually a bit weirder than that. It's a sometimes thing.

I did some testing on the "Mechanic" read, bug that SE won't fix, shortly after I first head about it.

Here's a bit from that post.
Quote:
To my dismay, I'm finding this to be mostly accurate.

With a single character in range, wearing repulse vs matamata, knockback never occurs. Two characters in range, both wearing repulse, no KB. One with repusle, and one without and knockback can occur.

I say Mostly, though, because while it does occur, it appears to be an intermittent issue. I don't Always get knocked back when a non repulse player gets hit by a AoE knockback attack. In fact, I've gone for fairly long periods without getting knocked back.

When knockback does bypass repulse, it appear to happen in spurts, where all knockback attacks go through for a period of time. Then it goes back to preventing all KB for awhile.

I can't seem to grasp the criteria for when it happens, but it doesn't seem to be calculated per individual attack. Since I've never seen a prevent, KB, prevent. It's always KB,KB,KB pause, prevent, prevent, prevent.

Interestingly, the effect either applies to all targets or none. Either we both get knocked back, or neither of us do. Even though only one character is wearing repulse.

And a last bit of bad news, while I can't speak for trusts, as mentioned earlier, I can report that Luopans can allow knockback to occur. And wearing repulse on the GEO won't prevent it. Which really, really, sucks. And makes no freaking sense, since luopans can't be moved at all via any means, much less knocked back.

In closing, this ***needs a bug report, and fix this crap SE.
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By Haorhu8 2020-05-15 17:13:28
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2 corsairs with fomalhaut or one with an empy make a very good team with Tact-roll to accumulate 1.5k TP crook Magus evoker the second cor roll chaos / sam, Triple.shot LS spam 3mins figth
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By Shichishito 2020-05-15 17:17:28
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SimonSes said: »
My LS mate used that in day one on his RUN to 3box VD with SCH helixes. He had enough for RUN to not get knocked back at all.
i think your LS mate might have used anchor, my experience with rdkb gear are similiar to his:
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
unless im mistaken knockback down gear doesnt stack. iirc i stacked +6 and got knocked back the same as +2
the distance you get knocked back seems to get reduced a little but its still enough to be inerupted from spells and to reposition constantly. from eyeballing i couldn't determine a difference between +2 and +4 reduced distance knock back. sometimes i wouldn't get knocked back at all but i think its due to stone skin/magic shield reducing damage taken to 0, not sure.

i'd say it makes the battle a tiny bit less annoying but overall i'm disappointed with reduced distance knocked back gear.
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2020-05-15 17:37:34
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Shichishito said: »
SimonSes said: »
My LS mate used that in day one on his RUN to 3box VD with SCH helixes. He had enough for RUN to not get knocked back at all.
i think your LS mate might have used anchor, my experience with rdkb gear are similiar to his:
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
unless im mistaken knockback down gear doesnt stack. iirc i stacked +6 and got knocked back the same as +2
the distance you get knocked back seems to get reduced a little but its still enough to be inerupted from spells and to reposition constantly. from eyeballing i couldn't determine a difference between +2 and +4 reduced distance knock back. sometimes i wouldn't get knocked back at all but i think its due to stone skin/magic shield reducing damage taken to 0, not sure.

i'd say it makes the battle a tiny bit less annoying but overall i'm disappointed with reduced distance knocked back gear.

There was definitely a difference between wearing 2-6 knockback gear [ring, subligar, pants]. I would get pushed back but the distance was minuscule. Less than a yalm? I would just waddle back to where I was standing right after the knockback. Have things changed since the BC was released? That was my experience on runefencer and as the only person within range of lilith melee hits/tp moves.
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By Shichishito 2020-05-15 17:44:24
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is there a collision check between party members billiard ball style or is it enough for someone without reduced distance knock back gear to be in range of a aoe/cone attack to render your knockback equipment useless?
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-05-15 18:28:14
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If you're using GEO, it's possible Luopans can cause your knockback gear to be nullified as well? I know when I used to do the merit fight version of Divine Might, tanks using Repulse Mantle would sometimes get knockbacked from Shield Bash when it'd normally nullify Knockback completely due to how miniscule it already was, but the tank would still experience knockback if an avatar and/or bubble was also being hit by it. (Was GEO a job when the fight was relevant? I don't remember and it may have just been a SMN's avatar in range, lol)
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2020-05-15 18:49:52
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YouTube Video Placeholder


Video shows the difference between 2-6 knockback on regular melee hits. You don't move at all using 6. I left before I realized I should have waited for her to do TP moves to see how much you get pushed back from those.

I wen't back, she did Subjugation Slash on me and I wasn't pushed back at all, then I died. Maybe other TP moves do knockback? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to go back to do more tests. Either way, it seems manageable.

If a geo bubble can cause knockback gear to bug out, just place the bubble behind lilith? It doesn't have to be on top of her afterall.
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By Shichishito 2020-05-15 19:04:06
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sadly 2 of the 3 pieces with reduces distance knocked back are too gimp to be usefull, the rupluse mantle is pretty meh and the subgliar is really aweful compared to for example malignance pants.

also trusts are going to screw your plans over anyway 90% of the time.
but nice testing ringoko.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2020-06-27 23:00:25
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So, just started trying to solo this a week ago. Had some good runs, and a bunch of wipes. Picked up Earring/Body/Legs/Sword in that order. I think I've finally narrowed down my strat.

Trusts I use are: Amchuchu, Sehl'teus, Yoran-Oran, Koru-Moru, and Cherukiki. From what I've seen two healing trusts help a lot. When I tried it with just one, they couldn't keep up with the incoming damage.

I love Amchuchu over the other tanks because I can't SC Darkness or Distortion AT ALL with him, he only has Light, Transfixion, and Fragmentation WS's. He holds hate pretty good too.

And since I found out I can self-SC Darkness with Rudra's > Evisceration, now I just spam Evisceration the whole fight to be safe, lol. A lot of trial and error, but I think I finally got it worked out.

Last two runs were smooth as butter....well as smooth as it can be through her damned knockback and bind bull. Time to star the grind,lol.
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By soralin 2020-08-17 05:29:22
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You can do Gravitation with Amchuchu, in fact you can do gravitation or darkness with all the tanks but one.

Ghesso is the only tank that you can truly safely spam Evisceration on without healing Lilith.

Evisc has Gravitation + Transfixion.

Transfixion => Scission = Distortion

Distortion => Gravitation = Darkness

Also:

Fusion => Gravitation = Gravitation

So Scission, Distortion, and Fusion are all "no go" properties that *** us up.

So any tank that can do Scission property you can accidently 3 step a gravitation off of, and it happens moderately often, and spoiler alert, every tank except Ghesso has a Scission or Distortion or Fusion property

Amchuchu: Power Slash (Transfixion)

AAEV: Chant (Distortion), Vorpal (Scission)

AAHM: Chant (Distortion)

August: Alabastar Burst (Distortion), No Quarter (Distortion), Null Field (Fusion), Tartaric Sigil (Scission)

Curilla: Vorpal Blade(Scission), Seraph Blade (Scission)

Mnejing: String Clipper (Scission), Shield Subverter (Fusiuon)

Rahal: Fast Blade, Seraph Blade, Savage Blade (All scission)

Rughadjeen: Sickle Moon (Scission), Ground Strike (Distortion), victory beacon (Distortion)

Trion: Flat Blade, Savage Blade (both scission)

Valaineral: Savage Blade, Uriel blade (both scission)

Ghesso: All clear, safe!

Ghesso seems to hold hate fine, keeps Lillith in place, and thats basically his only job. Spamming evisceration like crazy and never proccing Grav/Darkness is nice.

Swapping to ghesso made my clear speed skyrocket. Also, Ghesso gives us warcry for a nice lil attack boost, which is welcome!
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By Taint 2020-08-17 05:33:58
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Zero reason to use a tank.

Your research is great but you can replace the tank with a buff job.
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By soralin 2020-08-17 05:36:09
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Now for my question:

Ive started trying to duo box and trio box the fight on Easy mode to farm up pieces for my alts. I can reliably turn around for the gaze attack, but Im having issues with dread spikes.

With capped attack speed on my thief, sometimes I plough face first into that dread spikes and annihilate myself against it.

Should I just start also turning around and handling her Dark Thorn the same way I handle Fatal Allure?

Im using Ghesso + Koru Moru + Yoran Oran, and then my trio setup is Cor (roll ***) + 900 skill Dunna Geo.

Using Indi haste, Geo Frailty, Chaos Roll, and Samurai roll.

I myself am just a Tauret TH8 thf wailing away on Lillith.

Thoughts on this setup for Easy?
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By Taint 2020-08-17 05:54:10
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SB build and skip marches would be faster IMO for easy until you get really good at turning.

A single death waste tons of times.

I use MNK, THF(doesn’t TP just TH proc)and RDM.
MNK keeps her to 1-2 TP moves a fight. RDM let’s me start with Haste2 and Shell. Sylvia for 2 buyers. Add ulmia if only 1 buyer.
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By soralin 2020-08-17 06:02:12
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Would a 900 skill Geo work fine as a substitute for the Rdm?

A Geo/Whm can cap spell haste with just Dunna via Indi Haste + Haste I.

However I dont have a solid weapon for mnk, whats a "good enough" monk weapon I could use that isnt REMA?

How much subtle blow are we talking here btw? I assume thats what you meant by a SB build.
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By Taint 2020-08-17 06:19:12
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Krambit should work great. Cap SB build plus penance really makes her tame.

Geo is fine but you are looking at ~1000 ish fights for 5/5.
I took my CoR mule and made him a THF TH *** just for this fight.

RDM isn’t a huge deal, it’s just nice for me since I’m speed running and selling drops.
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By soralin 2020-08-17 06:28:33
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Taint said: »
Krambit should work great. Cap SB build plus penance really makes her tame.

Geo is fine but you are looking at ~1000 ish fights for 5/5.
I took my CoR mule and made him a THF TH *** just for this fight.

RDM isn’t a huge deal, it’s just nice for me since I’m speed running and selling drops.

Im currently trying to do it with my Epeo Run + TH8 thf tagging TH, using:

Yoran Oran, Kupipi, Ulmia, Koru Moru.

But Ulmia just doesnt seem to keep marches up properly and Yoran Oran keeps wandering into gyves.

This fight is just such a huge headache on Easy mode compared to Very Easy. On VE I just go on thf and can wail away spamming evisceration and have Ghesso tank.

The dread spikes just suck so so so much for my thf, if I can just figure out how to not die to them that would make it a lot better.
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By Asura.Fondue 2020-08-17 06:30:19
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I do thf(really shitty gear)/brd/whm E with koru/kingofhearts/ovjang but she tps nonstop lol having 2 erasers and 2 dispellers in addition to my mules is nice

hp down > subjugating is still scary though


brd/rdm can still land dispel np but occasionally she'll have like 4 buffs up from absorbing so the extra dispel is nice
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By soralin 2020-08-17 06:43:08
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Sorry so, how are you dealing with Dread Spikes instagibbing you though?

Im finding as soon as it is up I am going from full HP to <dead> within a matter of 1 second, its incredibly quick.

Are you just straight up turning around for Dark Thorns and waiting for dispel?
 
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By Nariont 2020-08-17 06:46:16
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just TP on the gyves she pops and ws on her, minimizes TP feed, and cuts down the risk of you tping on dread spikes if you cant turn in time
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By soralin 2020-08-17 06:46:46
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Also to note Im only interested in defeating her in under 6 minutes, ideally.

I can down her in about 3 minutes on VE with my Thf just zerging her, so I feel like any longer than 6 minutes to down her on E and its a waste of time, better to just spam 21 VE runs in the time it would take to do 7 E runs, but I could be willing to trade 7 E runs for 14 VE.

Not sure just how much higher the drop rates were.

Tbh, its just really starting to feel like the brainless zerg her down strat for VE is superior, no matter how I am approaching it on E its just 10x the clusterfuck, and even if I can clear it at a reasonable speed, the mental drain on micro managing all the mechanics feels like I will burn out.

Whereas I can half afk a hundred VE runs in a single day while binge watching netflix and barely need to pay attention.

How long does the magic burst helix strat take to down her on E?
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By Asura.Fondue 2020-08-17 06:49:44
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soralin said: »
Sorry so, how are you dealing with Dread Spikes instagibbing you though?

Im finding as soon as it is up I am going from full HP to <dead> within a matter of 1 second, its incredibly quick.

Are you just straight up turning around for Dark Thorns and waiting for dispel?

the 2 trusts dispel almost instantly if they arent doing anything else, idk maybe my gear is just really shitty compared to yours but I'm capped magic haste with little multi attack gear and its almost never an issue
I might get 2 attack rounds off on the spikes before they're gone 95% of the time

my run takes right at 6 min i think because buffing is ~2 min and it dies before my first songs wear off usually
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By Afania 2020-08-17 08:44:49
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soralin said: »
Also to note Im only interested in defeating her in under 6 minutes, ideally.


Use ajido trust for dispel to save some time. And use your strongest DD for faster kill.

Several people already posted 2 min(including buff time) E solo videos in this thread. There are no secret strategy behind fast runs. It's really about using the right trust and how good your DD is. The rest is just ws spam.

Edit: it's on page 29, 30, 36
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By Taint 2020-08-17 10:36:30
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Yeah, I'm 90-120 seconds total time in zone but my MNK is extremely well geared.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2020-08-17 10:49:53
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I’ve only done the sch strat a few times before and it was with a maxed out mythic sch and I think we did normal and it died pretty fast, he was also doing more SC+MB throughout the fight. We also did some easy runs in which it died before I could get more than 1 th proc.
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By Fenrir.Pirinolon 2020-08-17 10:51:49
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soralin said: »
Also to note Im only interested in defeating her in under 6 minutes, ideally.

Not sure just how much higher the drop rates were.

Tbh, its just really starting to feel like the brainless zerg her down strat for VE is superior, no matter how I am approaching it on E its just 10x the clusterfuck, and even if I can clear it at a reasonable speed, the mental drain on micro managing all the mechanics feels like I will burn out.

Whereas I can half afk a hundred VE runs in a single day while binge watching netflix and barely need to pay attention.

honestly i dont do E anymore unless someone specific request it, im 5/5 on a char and 4/5 on another, and i didnt saw any noticeable diffrerence between E and VE drop rates, its just lame anyways, so i try to just do it fast whenever i have merits in between my other activities

if it happens to drop, cool, if not i just treat that battefield like any other daily chore like DI or coallitions etc.
 
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By 2020-09-08 22:13:50
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By Boshi 2020-09-08 23:17:04
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‘Solo-multibox’
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