April 2019 Version Update

You realise you just stated that all the 2 handers get JA haste, and all the 1 handers get delay reductions, right?

Fencer giving delay reduction would be completely in line with the way all other jobs are designed and would be very balanced imo.

MA and DW are delay reductions.

It should work out that a lv 99 master Warrior should be very very close to delay cap, with capped magic and gear haste and using 1 hander + shield.

So, Id say 6% Delay reduction or so per Fencer tier? Fencer+1 would also give 6% delay reduction.

Itd be nice if the TP bonus scaled a bit more linear to be in line but whatevs.

The goal would be a 36% delay reduction total.

Maybe something like:

Fencer I: 10%
Fencer II: 15%
Fencer III: 20%
Fencer IV: 25%
Fencer V: 30%
Fencer VI: 32%
Fencer VII: 34%
Fencer VIII: 36%

Something like that, roughly speaking.

Because heals are very time / MP inefficient for generating hate compared to things like Flash / Foil / Stun.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity




Take off the glass's and read it again, I even spelled it out for you.


Haste Samba is JA Haste.

Sometimes, when I pull hate from tank, and I know the whm knows his thing, I switch to hybrid set and sword+shield. Retaliation takes care of TP gain, and Savage spam becomes godly. Retaliation is best.

Retaliation is a way of life yo.

If you don't understand why giving Warrior a flat free 10% JA haste with literally no downside is imba, then whatevs.

I'd hold the only way to be balanced is if Fencer gave Delay Reduction. Flat Ja haste off it is just crazy.

WAR wouldn't use it anyway as it has several other options that are better. But seeing your previous posts it's obvious you don't really understand how total damage works in FFXI.

It's absolutely MP inefficient (Refresh II/III negates this, however) but on Fetters it's the best solution I found to be sure to maintain hate while dealing with a stray ??? or bad positioning (while being outside of cast range of any of my spells).

Which is also why I don't use it otherwise.

Does WAR even need this, though?

I dont see why war wouldnt use sword/club and shield when both tanking and dealing damage. Theres no reason for it not to, and a shield is a shield, less damage taken is always good.

Biggest *** damage for the epeen isnt always the best option.

Because WAR already has better options like R15 Chango or even Shining One Polearm. I've already used WAR with a 10% JA Haste and while it's fun, it's not better then our other options. And WAR's block rate is ***regardless, there is a trick involving defender and a certain set of relic hands, still has lowish block rate though. WAR's damage mitigation is just wearing DT from having access to much the same gear PLD has, minus the DT II JSE.

***block rate is still block rate. Whm doesnt block a ton either, but it still procs.

That can be said for parry, and you dont lose anything hoping that procs

Pssst you can't use a shield with Bravura.

if only you could put a shield on your back.

I think a big question would be how much CE/VE Blind, Slow, Gravity, Dispel, Distract, Frazzle, and Flurry, etc, generate

I'd guess most of them just generate 300 VE, but there appears to be little data on BG wiki.

If even one or two of those spells generated some respectable CE/VE, I'd actually consider War/Rdm a respectable tank with Relic+3 hands and Blurred Shield.

War has access to Souv+1 gear, and can hit /almost/ as much Phalanx as Run and Paladin can.

You could alternatively duo box, and have a rdm healer, and equip Phalanx+ gear when you get hit with a dope Phalanx II.

In that case, Warrior would have a pretty juicy phalanx just like the main tanks, it's block rate would be respectable, and it'd put out tremendously larger savage blades than any paladin could hope for.

I'd say in that case go /run for some Inquartata to add another layer of tankiness, Flash, Vallation, and Pflug for more hate tools.

But mostly just holding hate by jacking up your DPS and maybe try to fit as much +Enmity gear into your savage blade set without sacrificing a tonne of DPS

Im sure there are ways to fit a good 20~30 enmity into a savage blade set and only lose a couple % DPS.

Though, /blu might just be best anyways. It's threat spells generate tonnes of hate and we get a few spells to further jack up our defensive capabilities.

I could see War/Blu getting there.

However if you go that route, you just spend all your time spamming spells and actually put out very little DPS. Not so great.

Blind atleast was nerfed hard, think dispel was another one, among others cause SE hated rdm or /rdm and by some extension /drk tanking.

If you wanna tank on war, pop hybrid/retaliation and slap its face

And? You can with a sword and a club. And club is going to do far more than bravura against undead.

The correct answer.

If someone wants to do an actual "shield tank" build they would likely be /RUN or /PLD and but jesus it sucks hard. I would know because I actually tried this back when I was experimenting with fencer builds. Better option is to use Bravura for a "Hybrid DT" set that only needs a Dring and just slap a target around.


Everything, this is what fail looks like.

SE intentionally killed those spells for enmity gain so no way they plan on reverting it. Blind, Bind, Sleep, and Poison were good moves for generating hate but they reduced them to pretty much the minimum though I am not sure of the exact values.

I'm fairly certain none of those generate 300~ VE anymore. That value is likely a pre-spell enmity nerf remnant. But it does need testing to confirm exact values.

What I can say with some confidence is that none of those spells are viable enmity tools now.

Its not what fail looks like. Undead take bonus damage from blunt, and the best blunt WSs scale well with TP, making fencers TP bonus really good for 1k-2k tp spam. And given youre tanking, youre getting a lot of TP very quickly anyways.

Bravura wont hold the same damage, and its not like war is tanking dyna D. And no, you dont need to sub pld or run.

Not sure why the values didn't get ported over for a bunch but yeah most are around 300 which when they only give 1 CE is pretty ***especially considering how much you get from damage
Even more so when you consider you are losing 60 VE a second just from decay and between casting and spell lock you losing a good 2-3 seconds to cast these spells... not to mention you bleeding CE all over the place

Even back at 75 when people were using those spells for tanking because they also had 300-480 CE too it only worked because the much lower dps back then and even then required the tank to build enmity and for the dps to regulate their hate thru things like Coronach rngs or blms sticking to bursts/occasionally nuking

Skeletons and corse take extra dmg from blunt, ghosts and doomed take reduced and everything else is neutral though hound takes extra from slashing

Even then, you are talking about a very specific set of mobs and situations.

Either way, this argument almost reminds me of the time somebody claimed that WAR/WHM is an excellent choice because they are just like a PLD!

Was that someone the Brady Guide Book? Hehehe

In all fairness, back in the day pretty much every job went /whm to exp parties.

In double fairness those are the pts you'd magically have to leave from as soon as you found out to find a group that was at least on par with the average dunes pt

No, that was the legitimate meta back in the day. Sub whm cures. Back in the days of old, where we had no level sync and you were in the dunes for weeks trying to get to level 25ish.

Naw son. That was far from meta. You would tolerate one guy subbing whm if he was new. Sub job makes little to no difference that early in the game but if you've got a whole party of /whm im finding a new party. There's plenty to chose from.

We all need to rest after every fight cause we only have 37 mp. Yeah no thanks.

I completely forgot about that!