Is CaladBolg Worth Making If I Already Have .....

Make all the drk weapons then put a ss here to show the community your dedication to drk

Soloed 100s of omen cards using shockwave.

It’s awesome for crowd control.

Am I missing something? You can cap total haste easily with just Hasso, even if you're just using trusts.

Plus Apoc still loses to Lib/Calad by a decent margin with 0 haste buffs, according to my spreadsheet.

Technically under cap by 1.25% haste, unless you're using a DNC trust.

25+10+43.75 =/= 80

Rank 15s?

Yeah. These are the numbers I got. Set 1 is rank 15 Calad. Set 2 is rank 15 Apoc.



Top line is just Hasso. Second line is Hasso+LR. Third line is with full buffs.

What's the avg Cata damage and what are you using to check this DPS? can you link it? Also none of this actually show the situation that Taint is talking about, which is capped magic haste+hasso+Cata's haste for capped 80% vs Calad at 78.75% haste. Looking at max haste numbers Calad will clearly still win in that situation, but still it would be nice to see those numbers.

The first line shows Calad at 34% haste and Apoc at 44% haste though so there should be an even bigger difference.

Catastrophe damage was 25,932.

I'm using Oreste's updated mote sheet available here with some personal fixes which shouldn't alter damage much at all. Only reason I haven't posted it is because I stripped out most of the gear as I only really used it to compare BiS and it makes it easier to update.

If the people who are saying calad wins over Lib would post a gearswap I’d like to see what sets they are using. I have both maxed, and Lib just performs better for me. I’d like to see what their sets look like. I’d love to use Calad more often but Lib with the AM3 set just generates TP so fast I literally have to spam Insurgency in the menu otherwise I tend to overflow tp using a macro. Which in my experience puts out a lot more WS’s over calad. I’m not at home at the moment but I’ll post the gearswap I use here when I do get there. For reference, I usually am in the top 2-3 parse in Dynamis runs and occasionally win it. But that’s with two killer COR’s beating me. I tried using calad last night in Sandy and ended up placing fourth in the parse. The two COR’s and a SAM beat me. And I wasn’t even that close to the COR’s at all. The SAM beat me by about 400k damage but the COR’s were like 2 mil over me. Even when I do place second in the parse it’s never more than 200-500k gap from our top COR. (More or less). But I’d love to be able to use Calad more often if I can get the right sets for it.

Yeah just not enough info.

35 haste Calad vs 45 haste Apoc brings both weapons to virtually the same delay. But Apoc would be a full hit less per WS. (xhit) Which at those low haste values is a large frequency increase. (2.8 seconds per round)

LR down also is a large loss in attack which Scythes in general pick up pDIF via SU3.

Per FFXI rules everything is situational but I've been having great success with Calad LR up, Apoc LR down popping SE. (both Rank15)

Taint or one of the above can post them, the thing is that Calad puts out monstrous WS numbers along with high melee damage. Liberator should not be getting "so much more TP", unless someone's TP sets are very bad. It's faster TP but not enough to bridge the sheer gap in WS damage, unless someone is really really slow at WSing. 20/20 is very bad, horrendously bad, stupidly bad as a stat mod. It basically means you can't pump up Insurgencies numbers via gear stacking like you can every other WS in the game.

Ex Regal Ring +10 STR / DEX / VIT

Torc
+10 STR = +2.5 BDMG from fSTR
+10 VIT = +8 BDMG from WSC
+10 DEX = +1 BDMG from Grip
Total: +11.5 BDMG

Insugency
+10 STR = +2.5 BDMG from fSTR
+10 STR = +2 BDMG from WSC
+10 DEX = +1 BDMG from Grip
Total: +5.5 BDMG

This story repeats for every gear slot and every stat. Calad Torc already starts out at a higher base DMG and 50% stronger @1K TP. Someone would need to WS more then twice as fast just to break even, much less pull ahead. So if someone's R15 Calad performance is bad, guaranteed it's that their TP set isn't tuned for that weapon.

I mean, if you want to go purely off of feelings instead of cold hard numbers that's your prerogative. The spreadsheet might not be entirely accurate but without a large sample size of parses there isn't really anything else that's evidence based to go off of.

Dynamis parses are often screwed with dd gears not swapping, it can happen to both GS users and vanilla players.

Some dd can top parse in 1 run then fail in another if their gear swap decide not to work on that day.

Still haven't seen these sets people are using for the results they're getting.

Delay reduction caps at 20% regardless so any additional JA haste is completely lost unless the player is unequiping gear haste in the process.

Magic = 448/1024
Gear = 256/1024
Hasso = 100/1024 (can't find an exact value, could be between 100 and 102 and still fall within the expected range).
LR = 256/1024

LR up = (1024-960)/1024 = 0.0625, raised to 0.20
LR down = (1024-804)/1024 = 0.2148.

The difference, assuming the same gear set, is only 7.4%. Not insignificant but not overpowering either. These days it's hard to find gear that doesn't have haste on it so removing gear haste isn't as useful a thing.

Not saying it’s off I’m saying you aren’t providing near enough info.

Gear, buffs, mob, toggles are all a mystery and all very important for comparison.

Download the spreadsheet and play around with it. I can't post examples for every single gear, buff and mob scenario. But from testing, the results are consistent regardless of those choices. I guess the most important thing is whether attack and accuracy are capped and they both were in the examples posted.

The sets used were the ones in the OP of the "High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA" thread.

I love how things come down to 2 dudes with footlongs having a *** measuring contest just because one has a whole half inch over the other. (Sorry that is the best way I can compare arguments over a very marginal difference)


Christ lol

Like Lib, you can keep your Lib.

Like Calad, you can keep your Calad.
Whatever they touch, they destroy.

Play how you want as long as you aren't dragging people down. The game is dead-ish, have fun with it.

Max gear/R15 weapons, it's not like somebody is going to call you a gimp and kick you for using a scythe.

Well the point of mmo forum is to theorycraft optimal builds.

Obviously in game you can do whatever you want.

Bit off-topic, but I saw a mention of WSing at 3k TP with Caladbolg. I thought the consensus was that Empy AM3 wasn't worth it (vs simple AM1 spam) outside of fights like Qutrub Ambu, or has the math on that been redone and you should always keep it up? Or are we just talking about zergs where you can open with 3k TP regardless?

I don’t go out of my way to keep it but if you are getting the full 3min it’s a no brainer.

Quick math has an extra 15 procs being break even. This would take roughly 75 swings.

So 15 WS. (Assumes 6 hit)

I couldn't post the entire thing here it says too many characters. but here's my set for Calad, I also have a Vmail with DA+5 ACC+24 VIT+5, as well.If anyone wants to see my Lib sets ill post those as well. Also I dont have an AM set for Calad. Maybe that would be something i could work on.
One more thing all RP is maxed.

If that was about me (I'm not sure, because despite what you are saying there is not 2 people arguing here, but more like at least 7), then I already said that I don't have Liberator, but only Calad.


Wtf Saevel. Are you trolling at this point or something? How many times you was talking about high delay great swords being much better on WAR then Ragnarok, because they have better WS frequency? Here not only you have GS which has even worse delay than Ragnarok, but on top of that Scythe not only has high delay but also comes with *** AM3. It's literally the worst weapon for WS frequency on DRK vs the best weapon for WS frequency on DRK. DRK is not WAR. You don't have tons of native DA blocking your AM3 and closing the gap between mythic and non mythic.

With set looking something like this:
ItemSet 364883

You have 19 store tp more than with Caladbolg and 30% more attacks per round than Caladbolg (comparing to 5hit build Caladbolg TP set from here)

With CC Regal Samuria roll adding 81 STP you have:
Caladbolg:
TP per round 478.1594492
TP per hit 318.7071
Liberator AM3:
TP per round 800.5581365
TP per hit 408.996

Tell me please, how the *** this is not obvious WS frequency advantage for Liberetor?

On top of that, in the scenario, Torcleaver has 241 TP return while Insurgency has 366 TP return. Which means every time you get at least double attack proc in the first round after WS with Liberator, you can WS again (and at 1182 TP too, not just 1000). Every time you get TA proc you can WS again too, but at 1590 TP). Both will happen frequently with with AM3 up. Caladbolg on the other hand needs at least TA proc to WS again after one round, which will be very rare with just 3%QA and 5%TA, so on avg Caladbolg will need 2 rounds to WS again, while Liberator only one. It's a massive WS frequency advantage. So please provide real counter arguments or you are just trolling Saevel.


I already addressed that too. Base damage is not only WSC, but also base damage on weapon and fSTR. In optimal sets (which are btw harder to get for Torc, because they assume 5%WSD/15VIT/acc augments on Odyssean, while Insurgency set requires no augments at all) Torc has ~24% more base damage, but has no multi attack and not that impressive STR, which may result in not capping fSTR on high ilvl targets. On Insurgency you stack STR, so it has an easier time to cap fSTR and Liberator also provides boost to absorbs and +80 macc to actually greatly help land them without Dark Seal.

Those are avg values I calculated for Torcleaver and Insurgency at 1000/2000/3000 TP.

Torc: 33679/50024/61428
Insurgency: 24570/43251/57262

Caladbolg has clear advantage, but it's between 37% at 1000TP to 7% at 3000TP.

I cant say which weapon would win. Caladbolg has higher white damage and higher WS at same TP range, but Liberator has way better WS frequency and will often WS at higher TP range than Calad. It would require a really good sim to compare them "on paper".

I can only see Caladbolg being a clear winner when you solo, because Torc>Torc is light, while spamming Insurgency is no SC.


Don't use Niqmaddu ring for Torc on wave 3. Even with own buffs (endark,food), your multi-attack hits are probably around 1200 accuracy, so in those rare occasions when QA proc, 50%+ of those hits will probably whiff.

Thank you for the feedback Simon. Heres my Lib TP set. Also I included AM3 up and down.

Insurgency set.
I don't spend a lot of time in the normal tp set I'm usually in the aM3 up set