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Discussion: how to make BLM more relevant
 Phoenix.Iocus
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Posts: 1498
By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-11-17 03:15:47
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »That's how it usually ends up isnt it? Even when sch is behind in nuke dmg the dot dmg padding helix gives tends to catch them up, the few tools blm has to push them ahead tends to be stuff that pushes everyone else ahead too, such a burn's INT down and -ja's ele dmg up
The "SCH vs BLM" continuum reminds me a lot of the "COR vs RNG" one. As the more hybrid versions of the pure DD jobs get stronger offensively, the desire and space that BLM and RNG get to occupy shrinks. At least RNG has the unique aspects of Trueflight and Hover Shot over COR- what does BLM truly get over SCH besides -aja spells and T6's? The job really does deserve something that keeps it the most desired elemental damage dealer....because unlike all the other jobs that can lay down nukes, BLM doesn't bring much else to the setup beyond that.
It's definitely not Hovershot or what's great about Trueflight, but at least BLM/SCH can use Ebullience now. You can always save your hot rounds for later in the window.
The other thing that makes the comparison on casters different than ranged jobs is BLM gets the safety net of mana wall. RNG isn't out there screaming threat into mobs backsides and living. Their death will most certainly be assured if you get too crazy on RNG.
Everyone remembers how cool timed casting the wheel on AMs for BCs were, but I remember how dangerous they were when you had an idiot in the mix. If BLM wants to go back to being dangerous then I think it has to cut both ways at least some. BLM is a safe job compared to other DPS and that's why early strats on hard content usually starts with MB or ranged and power creeps info melee. I have seen what BLMs do with Mana Wall + 3rd party tools AND so has SE and everyone reading this thread.
If you're going to carry over something from RNG, it's that Hover Shot and Decoy Shot share the same slot. When you NEED safety, you sacrifice DPS that has to be ramped up over time and can be easily lost if not managed properly. Because BLM doesn't have to pre plan for safety, because mana wall is such a good oh ***button, there has to be a meaningful trade off.
In conclusion, ignore everything I said that wasn't, "let BLM blow ***up!" I really mean that too, everyone should be having fun on their fun jobs. I really want them to give BLM Ultima and melt my brain and my cpu with how sparkly it is. Just collapse a star on those mobs already and let the black hole rip them to pieces.
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By SimonSes 2022-11-17 03:51:10
I'm actually interested in trying to find the testing on different elements as I seem to remember, though could be wrong, the reduction being on a per-element basis. 
It is indeed the case. Gravitation SC and MB w/ Impact + Geohelix at Full Damage
So technically speaking you could actually deliberately set off the "Nuke Wall" on purpose but then Nuke the other corresponding Element to the SC multiple times taking Full Damage? Idk tbh actually. Its just the question tbh now that you mentioned it.
Did I trigger the "Nuke Wall" via landing Darkness MB so subsequent Darkness Dmg is Reduced via -30% into -60% and Stone still ignores the Reduction after multiple Stone MB?
I seriously doubt it tbh but idk.
For Instance vs Kei for ex.
—> Takes 150% Dmg vs Aero and 100% Dmg vs Thunder during Fire Mode
Does that actually mean we could deliberately trigger the Nuke Wall via Thunder MB then simply have everyone else instead cast Aero after the fact?
Never even thought to attempt such before tbh.
In my own mind I cannot imagine SE simply failed to realize such a loophole would exist when initially implementing the actual “Nuke Wall” to begin w/.
My guess is NO you cannot simply trigger the 30% Reduction vs Thunder then simply cast Aero after the fact. You will do Full Damage though via the initial MB of two totally different Elements. That is for certain.
What about alternating Elements in sync…..
—> I am only assuming the actual “Nuke Wall” itself negates everything of that Element after 1st initial MB of that particular Element via 30% into 60% Reduction for 5s
Meaning you cannot MB Thunder > MB Aero > MB Thunder again attempting to bypass the Nuke Wall itself. That would be my guess.
—> I never mistook SE for a bunch of fools before so NOT going to seriously do such now.
You do Wind. I do Thunder. That does indeed actually work.
SE please make BLMs a shiny golden god of pure destruction so that an army of 12 Taru BLMs can gleefully do the /panic dance after they wipe out whatever poor NM stands before them in the blink of an eye from everyone nuking the same spell all at once. Never actually pondered the idea of having 12+ BLM all doing MB via 1 simple SCH doing SC but ofc w/ routine 18 man setup for a MB Strategy.
I am certain SE did indeed realize such which is exactly why such exists in the 1st place to begin w/ cuz they immediately Deleted Meteor from the Game once they added the Nuke Wall concept. Meteor wasnt even practical to begin w/ and I never actually got any use out of such.
Back then we couldnt come close to 99,999 MBD.
Even further back in 75 era we couldnt even fill our Alliance w/ BLMs cuz nobody had Matt's Cap let alone Abyssea or Escha to burn their Jobs.
1. Nuke wall is created by elemental/blue magic and afaik Ninjutsu (but Ninjutsu is not affected by Nuke wall)
2. MB is not required to create wall. It's from free nukes too.
3. Each element has separate wall, but afaik they all can be up at the same time and one doesn't prevent or reset the other.
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-11-17 03:53:30
A fan of all that you said, Iocus- except just please promise the Ultima animation won't induce a seizure ;)
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 Siren.Akson
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Posts: 2172
By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 04:03:24
I'm actually interested in trying to find the testing on different elements as I seem to remember, though could be wrong, the reduction being on a per-element basis.
It is indeed the case. Gravitation SC and MB w/ Impact + Geohelix at Full Damage
So technically speaking you could actually deliberately set off the "Nuke Wall" on purpose but then Nuke the other corresponding Element to the SC multiple times taking Full Damage? Idk tbh actually. Its just the question tbh now that you mentioned it.
Did I trigger the "Nuke Wall" via landing Darkness MB so subsequent Darkness Dmg is Reduced via -30% into -60% and Stone still ignores the Reduction after multiple Stone MB?
I seriously doubt it tbh but idk.
For Instance vs Kei for ex.
—> Takes 150% Dmg vs Aero and 100% Dmg vs Thunder during Fire Mode
Does that actually mean we could deliberately trigger the Nuke Wall via Thunder MB then simply have everyone else instead cast Aero after the fact?
Never even thought to attempt such before tbh.
In my own mind I cannot imagine SE simply failed to realize such a loophole would exist when initially implementing the actual “Nuke Wall” to begin w/.
My guess is NO you cannot simply trigger the 30% Reduction vs Thunder then simply cast Aero after the fact. You will do Full Damage though via the initial MB of two totally different Elements. That is for certain.
What about alternating Elements in sync…..
—> I am only assuming the actual “Nuke Wall” itself negates everything of that Element after 1st initial MB of that particular Element via 30% into 60% Reduction for 5s
Meaning you cannot MB Thunder > MB Aero > MB Thunder again attempting to bypass the Nuke Wall itself. That would be my guess.
—> I never mistook SE for a bunch of fools before so NOT going to seriously do such now.
You do Wind. I do Thunder. That does indeed actually work.
SE please make BLMs a shiny golden god of pure destruction so that an army of 12 Taru BLMs can gleefully do the /panic dance after they wipe out whatever poor NM stands before them in the blink of an eye from everyone nuking the same spell all at once. Never actually pondered the idea of having 12+ BLM all doing MB via 1 simple SCH doing SC but ofc w/ routine 18 man setup for a MB Strategy.
I am certain SE did indeed realize such which is exactly why such exists in the 1st place to begin w/ cuz they immediately Deleted Meteor from the Game once they added the Nuke Wall concept. Meteor wasnt even practical to begin w/ and I never actually got any use out of such.
Back then we couldnt come close to 99,999 MBD.
Even further back in 75 era we couldnt even fill our Alliance w/ BLMs cuz nobody had Matt's Cap let alone Abyssea or Escha to burn their Jobs.
1. Nuke wall is created by elemental/blue magic and afaik Ninjutsu (but Ninjutsu is not affected by Nuke wall)
2. MB is not required to create wall. It's from free nukes too.
3. Each element has separate wall, but afaik they all can be up at the same time and one doesn't prevent or reset the other. It’s not listed on BGwiki & wasn’t playing the game when the Nuke Wall was implemented so I am assuming such was actually Tested by whomever back when allowing you to know such or you Tested yourself or maybe it’s amongst the BlueGarter chat logs or something.
It was blatantly obvious enough tbh. SE ain’t exactly going to just DELETE one of their Newest addition to MB for BLMs for no reason whatsoever. SE foresaw the imminent writing on the wall.
Last I heard when I Quit game back in 2016 ppl were casting Death iirc for ridiculous Dmg. Honestly it was so long ago the last time I played that it’s hard to recall sometimes.
I don’t recall a Nuke Wall existing when Escha arrived Day 1.
Maybe it was slipped in between updates prior when we weren’t actually using BLM atm to achieve success. Interesting. Thx for confirming my suspicions & also for linking my thoughts together via including NIN as well. Seriously much Appreciated. That’s interesting SE noticed players casting Tier 1 Nuking targets to whittle down a Target since back then BLM did indeed pull Hate via Tier-V MBD which explains the Nuke Wall vs Non-MBD.
I firmly believe the assumption is Correct that all Elements MB penalty exist simultaneously since Light / Darkness exists to begin w/ making all Dmg viable to be abused simply by deliberately attempting to circumvent the Nuke Wall. Only thing I learned from SE is that they are serious Control Freaks. Anything / Everything they do is thoroughly Tested / Examined before being implemented into game when attempting to Solve foreseen Problems.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 04:19:39
The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in the next update patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days.
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Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 04:33:33
The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in an emergency maintenance patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days. That’s doesn’t sound remotely True tbh at all whatsoever. Started playing FFXI back when ZM and CoP alrdy existed for Years once ToAH arrived & went BLM to melt Stats in DYN.
— Never once recall doing less Dmg than anyone else
— FFXIclopedia never heard of Nuke Wall
— KillingIfrit never heard of such neither
Clearly such would had been given a Name that transcended both Space & Time if such literally existed back in the 75 era.
The only LINKS I could gather were via BlueGartr in Nov 2015 which adds up and 2016 + beyond via Byrth speaking on Reddit explaining such to others in detail.
I mean we did indeed do SEA and SKY and always brought along 5-6 BLMs nonstop. Never heard of such before returning back to game. /shrug
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2022-11-17 04:35:36
The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in an emergency maintenance patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days.
Definitely not. Death strats with 4+ BLMs were common at the start of Escha for several of the Aeonic NMs, and it was primarily after the nuke wall was added that SMN strats started to show up more frequently. The playerbase lost the ability to BLM army build an aeonic, and moved to SMNs.
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Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 04:42:07
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in an emergency maintenance patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days.
Definitely not. Death strats with 4+ BLMs were common at the start of Escha for several of the Aeonic NMs, and it was primarily after the nuke wall was added that SMN strats started to show up more frequently. The playerbase lost the ability to BLM army build an aeonic, and moved to SMNs. Thx for the clarification. Both you and SimonSes helped me grasp what I missed while away from game. Seriously appreciate y’all insight ><
Yeah. I Quit FFXI before Aeonics arrived but was killing absolutely everything in Sky-Escha minus the GODS which didn’t even exist yet. Have tons of the Gear from 2016 from Escha. Everything makes Perfect sense now. Thx again.
By Serjero 2022-11-17 04:50:51
I believe Melliny is referring to this
Quote: An accumulative magic resistance effect has been implemented for monsters that /check as "impossible to gauge."
Affected Magic Types
The following magic types will trigger the accumulative magic resistance effect when used repeatedly on monsters whose strength is "impossible to gauge":
Black magic (elemental)
White magic (divine)
Ninjutsu
Magical Blood Pact abilities
Magical blue magic
Magical weapon skills (Spirits Within, Red Lotus, etc.)
Certain job abilities (Chi Blast, Mijin Gakure, etc.)
Resistance Fluctuation
When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease in accordance with that monster's resistance. At the same time, its resistance will increase.
The monster's resistance will increase in accordance with the amount of damage incurred, but each monster has a maximum resistance level.
I have no idea when the supposed new nuke wall update of 2015/2016 happened even looking through all the update notes I didn't see anything. If someone wants to link those patch notes it might help everyone actually get on the same page of understanding. I know they mentioned certain NMs specifically (Zerde I believe) gaining a resistance to consecutive Deaths.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 04:51:21
That’s exactly how I remember it happening. If there was a nerf in 2015 or 2016 then I don’t know about it. I wasn’t playing the game at that point in time. I lost interest when escha first came out and took a break for a couple years to play other stuff. Apparently I missed several major events. What nerf happened after escha and how does it differ from the divine might nerf?
Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 05:01:19
The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in an emergency maintenance patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days. I see that now glancing over the NOTES yet it wasn’t seriously what it is atm.
Otherwise such would had been written about nonstop as it was Added to the Game. Indeed there was some sort of “Accumulative Magic Damage” update yet I never recall anything ever stopping ourselves from Deleting Stats nonstop in DYN nor anyone doing drastically more Dmg via 1st Hit Dmg vs such.
We did DYN after that Patch. We did SEA after that Patch. We did SKY ofc after that Patch. I just don’t think such was actually anything like such is atm. Maybe I am mistaken but that doesn’t even make sense based upon Ffxiclopedia nor KillingIfrit not having such Discussions.
So long ago. Doesn’t seriously matter any longer tbh…..
< Akson derails the Topic >
By Serjero 2022-11-17 05:10:09
To be fair damage during 75 days until late TOAU/WoTG was terrible all around and mages were M.acc starved for ages and I don't know of any resource that digs in super deep into testing that is that old. Even some of the BG threads from 2015 reference the 2006 update so IDK.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 05:15:42
In that case go back into the patch archives and find the point in time where the current nuke wall was implemented. Because the update Serjero linked is exactly when I remember it happening. And if you read the wording, it’s exactly what’s happening today. Nuking mobs with the same element raises its resistance tier, and each mob has a maximum resistance value.
Your statue example is not necessarily applicable, because they specifically stated in the notes that each mob has a different maximum resistance value it can reach. Statues aren’t that important in s-e eyes, but primary boss fights are. Unless someone can link me to a different set of patch notes that state otherwise, I stand by my original belief. I’m willing to be proven wrong here, but I remember that patch very well and the discussions that came afterward. That was the day the nuke wall was originally implemented. And the reason was to put a stop to full blm alliances one shorting mobs that were never intended to be cheesed like that.
Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 05:22:15
In that case go back into the patch archives and find the point in time where the current nuke wall was implemented. Because the update Serjero linked is exactly when I remember it happening. And if you read the wording, it’s exactly what’s happening today. Nuking mobs with the same element raises its resistance tier, and each mob has a maximum resistance value.
Your statue example is not necessarily applicable, because they specifically stated in the notes that each mob has a different maximum resistance value it can reach. Statues aren’t that important in s-e eyes, but primary boss fights are. Unless someone can link me to a different set of patch notes that state otherwise, I stand by my original belief. I’m willing to be proven wrong here, but I remember that patch very well and the discussions that came afterward. That was the day the nuke wall was originally implemented. And the reason was to put a stop to full blm alliances one shorting mobs that were never intended to be cheesed like that. It wasn’t no such thing as a -60% Reduction to MBD back in 2006. No way! lol
We would taken notice to 2nd MB doing -30% less then everyone else doing -60% less.
That’s all I am saying. ><
I never witnessed such back then. Even if we doing 1K MB per x6 BLM vs Stats in DYN. You would notice everybody else doing 400 Dmg vs 1k Dmg after 1st two MB in Chatlog.
Out of ignorance not knowing such even existed I would had been looking at myself & others as being GIMP nonstop. We nuked simultaneously so to 1 shot the Target. Every Stat in DYN we murdered that way via using identical FastCast on all our BLMs so we didn’t mess up. We even timed Nukes via Game Clock so 0 mistakes so nobody casted too early nor too late.
I cannot help but be convinced such got altered over the Years.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 05:34:35
Read the very last statement in the patch notes. “But each monster has a maximum resistance level”. The reason you didn’t see 60% damage reduction on statues is because their maximum resistance is far lower than something like say.. Odin. If statues only capped at 10 or 15% resistance then you aren’t going to notice that much. You’re basing your entire memory on nuking statues. And I’m telling you that statues are not a good mob to go off of. Different mobs have different resistance caps. Trash mobs are set much lower, so even though the nuke wall is still there, you barely see it. Important nms have much higher resistance caps, and on them you DO notice the difference.
And by the way, this just goes to show that just like the multi target damage reduction to AoE nukes, the nuke wall is another relic of bygone days in an era that isn’t relevant anymore. Back then boss mobs had less hp than a single savage blade deals today. BLM today is shackled by balancing issues that at the time of implementation….. we’re very necessary. But in todays era that's not so much the case. Today melees have capped -dt hybrids that overflow with magic evasion, which easily cap haste and weapon skills that hit like trucks. Back then they’d die to a single AoE from a major boss and capped haste was a pipe dream. The playing field is vastly different from back then.
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Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2022-11-17 05:43:10
Read the very last statement in the patch notes. “But each monster has a maximum resistance level”. The reason you didn’t see 60% damage reduction on statues is because their maximum resistance is far lower than something like say.. Odin. If statues only capped at 10 or 15% resistance then you aren’t going to notice that much. You basing your entire memory on nuking statues. And I’m telling you that statues are not a good mob to go off of. Different mobs have different resistance caps. Trash mobs are set much lower, so even though the nuke wall is still there, you barely see it. Important nms have much higher resistance caps, and on them you DO notice the difference.
And by the way, this just goes to show that just like the multi target damage reduction to AoE nukes, the nuke wall is another relic of bygone days in an era that isn’t relevant anymore. Back then boss mobs has less go than a single savage blade deals today. BLM today is shackled by balancing issues that at the time of implementation….. we’re very necessary. But in todays era thsts not so much the case. Today melees have capped -day hybrids, cap haste and hit like trucks. Back then they’d die to a single AoE from a major boss. The playing field is vastly different from back then. So nobody noticed vs Sky Gods even while doing MBD nonstop to kill such. Same w/ Limbus NM and SEA Gods. We also killed NM in DYN as well yet nobody questioned the -60% reduction until 2016?
The Year when I Quit game oblivious of a Nuke Wall. Now everybody realizing such exists. That’s how I feel about it too tbh.
Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-11-17 08:24:05
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »The nuke wall is far older than escha. They added it in the zilart era when people brought alliances of 18 blms to divine might so they could cheese the fight with a timed nuke. Turns out 18 casts of thundaga III going off simultaneously was more than enough damage to outright kill all 5 AAs and their pets in a single volley. As soon as S-E found out about that they flat out said “no, this is not allowed” and implemented the nuke wall in an emergency maintenance patch. This happened in like 2004 or 2005. The nuke wall has been in place since the games very early days.
Definitely not. Death strats with 4+ BLMs were common at the start of Escha for several of the Aeonic NMs, and it was primarily after the nuke wall was added that SMN strats started to show up more frequently. The playerbase lost the ability to BLM army build an aeonic, and moved to SMNs.
Nuke wall been around since 75 days with Divine Might, as Mel just posted the notes for it.
Death strats didn't involved 4 BLM's going simultaneously but in pairs, was a far better method due to Death having a long recast and that it drains MP to 0 when casting. First SC happens, both BLMs blast death, the slower one gets a -30% hit. Second SC happens and the next two BLM's blast, third SC happens and the next two blast. Sometime around now the first two have recharged.
There was never a nuke wall centered on folks building aeonics, you are confusing that with the massive rebalance SE did when they lowered the T4 HELMs evasion from 2100 to something around 1200~1300, while changing Focus / Langour / Attunement / Vex to be static instead of percentile. Think they also buffed bard songs and RDM debuffs right around this point.
The results was that melee / ranged centered setups got easier while magic centered setups got harder.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 08:50:34
I just went through all the battle-related changes in the patch notes from 2014 to 2019 this morning and only a few things occurred relating to elemental magic, and most of them were buffs. There were a bunch of changes in the early 2014's and 2015's which resulted in magic bursting getting a damage boost and the mana cost of all spells getting cut while base spell damage went up. Most of us probably remember the elemental spell effeciency buffs around that time. And then there's this in the March 2017 Version Update
Quote: Zerde's stun resistance has been reduced, his darkness resistance has been greatly reduced, and he now has a cumulative resistance to the black magic spell Death.
It sounds like the Death spell wasn't subject to the nuke wall when they created it. But they changed that in this patch. However the nuke wall itself was already in place, and had been for over a decade at that point in time. The nuke wall itself was born out of necessity to prevent blms from one shotting alliance content. However alliance content is almost nonexistant now, and the way battle carries out is nowhere near what it was when they added it in.
Both the cumulative magic resistance (IE the nuke wall) and the AoE multi target damage reduction on -aga and -aja spells are remnants from the level 75 days. Back then they were necessary and without them black mage would literally break the combat system. Today that's no longer the case, and I don't think either are needed anymore.
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By Bahamut.Spookyfish 2022-11-17 09:03:21
If they opened the nuke wall to include different tiers and not just differing elements(how often on anything that matters, do you get to use 2+ elements?) ex. a 6 man party including SCH/GEO/BLM that all bursts on Ongo. SCH gets to land a Helix 2, BLM gets to land a Stone 6 and the GEO can Stone 5 all within the same SC with no penalty. Remove the 5 second limit and just make it single tier limit per SC window, it doesn't fix BLM in a group of WS happy DD but it gives us something in the right direction. You're handicapping DDs in newer fights while they can still steamroll everything else in the game, give us that same opportunity.
There's still a limit to how many higher tier nukes you can stick in a SC window regardless of 6 man or 18 man groups. BLM gets the spot light again as the key nuker because they aren't limited to Tier 1-5 bursting like a GEO or SCH. Nobody loses their job identity.
Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2022-11-17 09:06:50
4 5 6 aja aga3 am2 all do 99k (not on ongo, obviously) allowing different tier to have different wall is pointless.
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By Bahamut.Spookyfish 2022-11-17 09:11:56
And outside of the new Sortie bosses, what content would that really matter on?
Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2022-11-17 09:14:38
It doesn't matter, that it doesn't matter.
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By Bahamut.Spookyfish 2022-11-17 09:20:57
So lets just handicap everyone on all old content then. RNG and COR armies can't TF/LS/WF Zerde to all hell in under 30 seconds. Naegling jobs can't Savage all the things.
You can keep your resist walls on newer content but why handicap a job that is already limited to specific elemental resistances on top of innate MDT mob families have on old content?
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2022-11-17 09:26:15
"because everyone will bring armies of 12 blm's" or whatever the dumb line was.
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-11-17 09:45:09
Exactly, and that's why it's a really bad argument nowadays. What's the difference between a handful of mages bursting for 99k in unison versus the armies of haste capped dd's spamming 40-65k weaponskills endlessly every second or two without sacrificing survivability because they have perfect hybrids during both their TP and weaponskill phases? The answer is not a damn thing! If they removed the nuke wall the meta wouldn't even change, you'd just see a few more magic setups than before. They broke the game completely when they released the odyssey sets...along with several of the more impactful empyrean +3 pieces. They can remove the nuke wall too. At this point we're so power crept it won't even matter.
Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2022-11-17 09:50:14
The difference is 16 jobs benefit from melee being broken. 1 job benefits from magic being broken.
Lesser evil.
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By Bahamut.Spookyfish 2022-11-17 10:01:48
Or nobody is handicapped in old content and everyone benefits?
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 2521
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-11-17 10:46:56
the armies of haste capped dd's spamming 40-65k weaponskills endlessly every second or two without sacrificing survivability because they have perfect hybrids during both their TP and weaponskill phases?
I think this comment misses the point of melee vs ranged though. Sure, you have 50% DT and decent Meva in your TP and (some) WS sets. So are you telling me that nobody is ever hit by any enemy WS? No melee has ever been hit by amnesia, petrification, paralyze, attack down, etc since Sakpata armor was released? Speaking from my personal experience, while resistance rates are much higher than they were, melee still get debuffed, can be killed, and even if they aren't killed, it requires a healer and tank doing their jobs.
If you have an army of BLMs they are outside the range of all TP moves and completely immune to basically any boss mechanics.
Never mind stuff like the Naakuals/Odyssey bosses. Show me a video of a V20 Kalunga, Xevioso, and Ngai where the melee evade all of the enemy's TP moves and are never at any risk of dying because they have 50% DT and some meva.
Enemies still have dangerous TP moves. They can weaken you, do full dispels, have stat downs, give you amnesia, encumbrance. Acting like all melee are invincible death machines is a bit disingenuous.
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By Nariont 2022-11-17 10:47:06
Honestly, at this stage of the game it probably doesnt matter, since i dont see a whole lot of content coming down the pipe, and most reasonably geared players can tackle just about everything pre-ody without much struggle, going forward however youd just be making another conduit situation, or an unleash zerg, minus the strict time limit those 2 had(minus cor reset potential) and people loved those from what i remember, who cares about strategies when you can just bypass it, its just only fine when melees do it cause that takes skill or something and isnt just overinflating stats to brute force through an encounter.
Granted in this scenario i think itd be different unless they supercharge the aoe dmg/macc on the debuffs to make melee very unfavorable, as they're much much tankier and more offensive then they were even a few years ago with all the hybrid gear laid out, between that possibility and just some lazy ws wall they might just go that route, just like how they had "solved" bubbles for a bit
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Enemies still have dangerous TP moves. They can weaken you, do full dispels, have stat downs, give you amnesia, encumbrance. Acting like all melee are invincible death machines is a bit disingenuous.
actually forgot about the full dispels, most of the other stuff can "potentially" be bypassed by overloading on meva as they're usually tied to an element macc check, dispels are usually the ones that either hit regardless or just have stupid high macc to them, regardless you take away the dd buffs and they're almost worthless compared to when they had the 13+ or so icons up
I got my BLM Mythic several months ago but I have barely even used it. Other than the occasional manaburns for Gaes Fete people just don't seem to use BLM anymore. I haven't even seen a BLM in Ambusacde for the last 2 years.
The idea I want to discuss is around Magic Crit and Crit Damage. As far as I remember it barely does anything and isn't even worth considering when building gear sets. What if they increased the base crit for magic spells to be more like physical crits and be a +100% modifier. This way free nukes in Dynamis D with no buffs could hit around 20 to 30k. This would help BLM compete with melee DD. To stop it from being too OP they could make magic crits not apply to magic bursts and only free nukes.
What do you guys think? What other ideas could make BLM more relevant without breaking it?
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