Discussion: How To Make BLM More Relevant

It really is a shame that due to the nuke wall, 3 jobs very capable of extremely solid nuking numbers (if they care about their sets) are mostly told to sit down and shut up til Rayke is on. The nuke wall flat out encourages those other 3 offensive mages to do nothing.

I don't mean to be overly critical here but people really need to think about this from a game design perspective.

Is the nuke wall annoying? Yes. Try coming up with a solution though. If you don't have a nuke wall then you bring RUN SCH BLM BLM BLM GEO, only 1 person is being hit by the mob's TP moves and you can do 5x99,999 damage every 10 seconds from a safe distance with very little concern for enmity.

It sucks that free nukes do such little damage? Sure...what's your solution? If you make free nukes do enough damage to keep up with a melee DPS's damage, or close to it, why would you bring a melee who is feeding the mob TP, in range for all their TP moves and spells, and pulls way more enmity than a mage?

It sucks that Meteor is useless? Yup, agreed. What's your solution? Make Meteor break the 99k limit and do more? 1shot the entire game without even engaging or giving it a chance to use a TP move!

The game is harder to balance than most people give it credit, and a lot of the complaints about where BLM sits in the meta are just the difficulty of balancing two entirely different styles of combat.

I'd love to hear more suggestions from people about how to fix things instead of just complaints about how things are, but most of what I've seen are things which would fundamentally break the meta and turn it back to BLM onry. I don't envy them, I think it's a difficult thing to make BLM helpful but at the same time not necessary or overpowered...I think one of the better examples are things like Vagary end bosses where you have to SC+MB them or they run away, so it's actually a forced SC/MB...except GEO or SCH can do that.

Yes it needs removed, it's per-element so you can spread out damage but only if the SC is multi-element, doesn't always work out well though. Like on a distortion the BLM can do Blizzard and the GEO can do Water, anyone else is just SoL. Darkness lets a third person do Stone. Removing the wall would let everyone target he appropriate weakness. Reducing the GCD to 2s or less would encourage chaining tier I and II free nukes.

I seem to remember it not being per-element. I could be wrong though since we did our tests back around the time they released reisenjima...dyna-d? idk it's beeh hella long since then.

There were a couple good ones like double cast or reducing cascade to a regular JA, you could do something similar with meteor, more blms the longer the duration, or fixed duration but each blm involved gets a buff.

Another is just more variety in boss mechanics, it wouldnt feel near as bad to be an ele nuker if your role wasnt the odd fight here and there, but the ws wall is just a lazy way to do it

Would be neat to have something like a ws esq spell something you build up to, say you do you elemental ja spell 3 times on a target, you unlock x spell that's free cast matching the element, cast 4 times a different spell opens or can free cast the 3 spell twice, 5 times and you unlock the break damage limit spell, 2 of the tier 4 cast or 3 of the tier 1 cast. Using the spells removes the elemental debuff so you have to rebuild again on the target.

But this would just turn into an extras button to press or an optimized rotation that is make or break for the job. I think the fix is to give blm more tools to do consistent (read: outside of burst) damage options that aren't negatively effecting limits the game already has, like MP consumption/recast times/casting times.

Hell if blm had 6 stances that when they auto attack at range threw out free casted t1/t2 nukes randomly Ala "you have so much magic energy that it's literally escaping you" as an auto attack feature would probably make blm feel more relevant even if a SC gets messed up or fails. Make it a chance to happen and give them traits and relevant equipment to enhance the trait.

Elemental spirit x or avatar of x(where x is the element selected)
Job ability works like phantom roll but only one can be active at a time)
Cool down 1 minute
Duration 10 min-1hr so you aren't just adding more ja cd's to blm)
Effect you're invoking x element your body has a chance to release x energy every time you cast a spell, or randomly every 3 seconds while engaged.

Ways to enhance it
"augments new ability" increases the level of energy by 1 tier while equipped. (ability is effectively t1 nukes auto/free cast, this makes them t2, so on and so forth as they get more gear with this ability)
Or
Allows new ability to magic burst and does not effect and is uneffected by the nuke wall.
Or
Causes new ability to store energy to instead of auto attack and releases the next time an eligible SC is opened(cannot happen more than once every 10s, damage does not have any nuke wall implications)

"new ability+x" increases the chance for ability to proc by x%, grants ability to jobs that did not have it previously(like meghanda with dead aim head)


The reason I feel this would be a generally decent fix is because people look at physical damage dealers and these rapid fire ws's that are giant damage but there's also a consistent, free, white damage component to melee jobs that gets overlooked.

I don't know that allowing blm to break damage limit would be the fix if every spell could accomplish it, but maybe allowing t6 spells to do it would be a step in the right direction.

-JA on a 30-second cool down that lets your next spell do non-elemental damage for calculation purposes (magic burst still occurs if you do one)
-JA on a 5-minute cooldown lasting 1 minute that lets you burst any element off any skillchain
-Meleeing as a black mage should auto-shoot magical energy (like some trusts), can never miss, damage should depend on macc vs the mob meva, TP gain should also depend on macc vs the mob meva (less macc = gain half/4th/8th of full TP/hit)
-Vidohunir should either lower MDB more than it does (make it stronger than Shattersoul), or applying debuff to lower MDB equal to an Idris malaise bubble but effect not stacking with a bubble

I have two ideas.

Keep the nuke wall, but give BLM an unremovable Addle-like enfeeble that extends the Magic Burst window several seconds longer for a set duration. You will get more time to fit more bursts into the window, albeit at reduced damage. Nobody else would really want to burst during this time but the BLM unless Rayke or something was up.

Other option is giving BLM an enfeebling JA (Maybe attach it to Cascade's next spell effect) that temporarily disables the damage nuke wall (say 60 seconds), so there is a set period of time that encourages everyone to burst but nobody is hurting anyone else's damage. The downside is, the MB window is cut in half, so you get less bursts in. This would slightly discourage you from bringing 3 BLM to just spam the JA over and over again, but you could use it with something like Tabula Rasa to really crank up the group's collective nuke damage.

You could tie the two enfeebles to stances that attach to the next Elemental Magic Spell you cast on your target, but they can't be used together.

Since I really doubt the Nuke Wall will ever go anywhere, perhaps a stance for BLM that makes their nukes not count towards it, but it would need a way to be ineffective for the BLM army concept. I'm thinking essentially of an "Intension" type stance that greatly extended recast times like Hasso, but then allowed the BLM's nukes to ignore the wall, and not contribute to it for other nukers in the party still susceptible to it.

I REALLY like this idea. Make a JA that allows MB to go even if someone does a WS after the SC goes off. That would be amazing...Or just make it like that all the time, until a new SC is opened

That should be the default mode. No complicating it.

SC windows should be longer and open the full duration, period. Even if a second sc goes off. And increased potency if it's the same elements.

It's highly unlikely they make any mechanical changes to the SC or MB windows, cuz s'gheti. I was just spitballing. That code is so precarious, it'll literally break the game if they make any changes to it without proper stress testing (which they won't do).

Just let BLM have a JA or Trait that lets them use MBB damage calculations outside of SC windows. It does nothing about the nuke wall penalty directly, but you can stagger your damage to avoid it without needing more SCs.

If you want to get all elemental wheel on it, then make it required to use Ancient Magic. Your regular rotation SC is Light and you Burst Flare legit. Now you get a buff that turns your next free cast Water spell into a Burst without needing a SC window. BLM #2 in that same party bursts the light window with Tornado, their next blizzard spell is a burst. They still have to coordinate about the nuke wall on burst and off burst or else they are going to keep messing it up for each other. These free bursts would need to at least partially mitigate the SDB of the element they target or else they would be functionally useless in a lot of instances.

There are already merit 2 categories that would support this specific thought process.

Does anyone actually think BLM army is even close to a problem at this point in the game? The two main end game content cycles are 6 man parties, one of which already strictly prohibits job stacking.

When it comes to older content, do people really think it's a problem that RUN GEO SCH BLM BLM BLM could obliterate things that RUN GEO COR SMN SMN SMN already can w/ AFAC? Or BRD COR GEO WAR WAR WAR? How about instances where hybrid/magic WS are busted and NIN SAM COR RNG can just go completely insane?

Like what actually gets broken in half by removal of the resistance wall that isn't already easily obliterated by some other strategy?

They've already shown they are more than happy to force players into certain strategies or away from specific ones. So it's not like it would be a problem in future content.

Get rid of these antiquated mechanics and bring nukers into the modern age. Game has already been busted by power creep. Just let everyone feel like their own shiny golden god on 4+ year old content and then keep making a cyclic forced damage type content that makes everyone have to buy wardrobe 3-8 if they want to play with the big boys in w/e the new hotness is.

Beyond that IDK, give BLM a hovershot like ability or you know change ja spells, let the newest cast reset the window and up the bonus cap to 50%+, maybe adjust the bonus from Empy legs to do this so that it goes like 25 base cap > 30 > 35 > 40 > 45 > 50 > 55 for +1/+2/109/119/+2/+3. This way at capped cumulative magic bonus you're almost completely offsetting the wall.

Yeah I don’t personally view such as a “Zerg” on BLM tbh.
Simply cuz BLM did not possess enough FastCast to come close to recasting Highest Tier nukes repeatedly let alone Double MB.

It’s like having 5 DD all sync their WS to hit at same time simultaneously in order to just delete something. Such was way more Calculated timed Precision than all out DPS Mode “Zerg”.

I do wish SE would again make BLM as important again as it was back at 75 cap but I am also OK w/ how things currently are atm as well since SE does do a good enough Job of forcing ourselves into using numerous Strategies in order to Delete targets. It’s just that personally I would prefer BLM be more necessary vs Highest End Content more so than not. Honestly I simply just want Full Alliance gameplay more than anything atm moving forward. 6 man Content alienates way too many ppl if you have an active EGLS.

It's folks who absolutely don't want to have multiple nukers in any magic strategy.

The 5s magic damage wall is dumb, it was deliberately put in place to prevent multiple elemental magic casters using the same element, basically it's an anti-party mechanic. A single BLM won't have any issues with the wall, but the moment a GEO, RDM, SCH or second BLM gets introduced then the whole strategy falls apart and is completely unnecessary. A SCH or SCH + COR making a SCH should allow for everyone to get involved in the fun, not just the BLM doing big numbers while everyone else sits on their hands or nukes in a weaker off-element (if it's even possible). The BLM can do their big ja -> tier VI nuke while the others toss Tier V and IV nukes with them for bigger group damage.

Bursting will never be a viable strategy with that wall, unless it's forced. And even then we found a COR + SCH Fusion -> True Flight setup would deal comparable damage, if not more, with others bursting whatever they could on the Fusion / Light. Were able to clear basement boss E and G in under 2:30 using this method. Boss F and H on the other hand practically require targeted elemental damage on specific elements.

That “Nuke Wall” is literally just as lazy a fix as “WS Wall” in Sortie is atm. It’s a Dumb concept that does NOT even need to exist.

If SE thinks BLM Dmg is too excessive & OP then just adjust our Dmg instead rather than Delete the concept of a 5-6 man BLM party in an Alliance. I don’t agree w/ the existence of neither version of such “Dmg Walls”

Bring back to Game the concept of having an army of BLM in FFXI.
That’s all. Solo &/or Duo BLM is way less exciting tbh than it ever was back then 75 era.

The differences, as I stated above are:
WAR give the mob TP where BLMs standing back waiting to cast don't. BLM nukes give less enmity, BLM has enmity douse. WAR are subject to all the enemy's TP moves, meaning they either need great DT/meva, and/or can be killed, debuffed, etc.

SMN are using their 1hrs for this strategy, it's not even remotely comparable, but also they've added a resistance wall for this to most relevant content because it's stupid strong and ruins otherwise difficult content, this is exactly what we're trying to avoid.

Sure, I'm open to the argument that Trueflight, Leaden, Wildfire are busted and similar to the BLM strat being proposed except...if the mob is strong against Darkness, you can't just use "Leaden Salute, but Stone based". BLM could target any elemental weakness and would only be unable to delete things which had resistance against all 6 elements.

I promise you if they got rid of the nuke wall, every fight in the entire game would turn into some combination of SCH, RUN, and as many BLMs as you can find and everyone would be bitching about how boring and easy it is.

There are exceptions I'm sure, but realistically anything that is remotely dangerous and can be nuked, will be nuked.

It’s not “Boring” nor “Easy” being you need to actually use fundamental Core gameplay Mechanics that are Exclusive to FFXI.

What makes FFXI the Greatest MMO ever created?
—> Multi-Step Skillchain into Magic Burst

What makes FFXI actualy “Boring” is bland Weak vs Blunt / Slashing / Piercing found in Odyssey when we simply just do WS Spam making FFXI more akin to FFXIV version of a Combat System spamming Timers on Cooldown. No SCs at all whatsoever. Nothing but WS spam.

Very simple Solution to your Concerns.
— Damage Taken Reduction
— Magic Damage Taken Reduction
— Physical Damage Taken Reduction
It’s very EZ for SE to dictate Melee Fight vs MB Setup.
SE alrdy does such, as is atm, so such is to be expected alrdy to begin w/ moving forward.

Nobody whom is a BLM seriously wants to be forever stuck going BLM nonstop. We just want BLM to be able to do Content like we used to be able to do back in the 75 era w/ fellow BLMs amongst ourselves. Maybe I am just speaking for myself when I say I want the Return of Army of BLMs to exist in FFXI but I can tell you those days were very memorable to me & it’s a shame SE literally Deleted such from the Game.

The game is probably well beyond this idea already, so I apologize in advance. But I wonder if it would have solved any issues if the base damage of elemental magic were reduced, but boosted substantially when used in a Magic Burst, with the bonus scaling based on the number of steps in the skillchain.

In my mind, that would have solved the issue of Manaburning down big boss fights without needing to interfere with the introduction of the magic damage wall, all while encouraging a well-balanced party that includes either a couple of physical teammates to open bigger skillchains for the magic-users, or a single physical teammate opening smaller skillchains for multiple magic-users to take advantage of.

Sorry, did you just say that SC+MB isn't boring or easy? Here's the list of what you do as a BLM in a SC+MB setup:
-Cast a nuke when the SC finishes.

That's the whole list. I guess one of them can do Burn or Impact or something?

Here's the hard part: time the nuke after the SC. Don't walk too close to the enemy? If it's standing still and the tank keeps hate the whole time, you might not need to touch a single key. As a matter of fact, you probably only need 1-3 macros, depending on how much automation you have in your lua, and with shortcuts you probably don't need any macros at all.

I'd also add: there's nothing stopping you from using BLM and SC+MB right now, except efficiency or the meta of friends around you. You can SC+MB almost anything in the entire game except like...half of Odyssey? Go for it! SE didn't make BLM and skillchains impossible, they just have it balanced where melee is faster, which seems appropriate, because it involves putting 3-4 more people at risk and has more enmity issues

So you are literally labeling that which Defines FFXI vs FFXIV and every other MMO on the Market is being “Boring” and “Easy”

This is FFXI Forums not WoW Forums

I am saying. If you do NOT like SC into MB combat.
Then maybe FFXI is NOT made for you. Only FFXI even has such Gameplay Mechanics to begin w/

I mean sure SC and MB are mechanics which don't exist in other games, but they're not the only thing differentiating it from FFXIV. Does FFXIV have Amnesia? Do WoW mobs gain TP the more you hit them? Does FFXIV have pet jobs? Are the enmity mechanics in SWTOR the exact same as FFXI? Can you change gear mid-battle in FFXIV now? Did they add 1hr abilities to WoW?

SC+MB is not the only thing unique about FFXI, at all.

Chocobo + Moogles !! Oh my!

The COMBAT itself is why we play FFXI instead of FFXIV.

Deletion of MB or SC via labeling such as “easy” doesn’t even make any sense whatsoever since FFXI revolves around its Core gameplay via COMBAT Systems. That also includes SC + MB not found in generic MMO garbage, aka WoW, outside of FFXI.

Yes. And the COMBAT is a lot more complicated than SC+MB. The biggest thing standing out about FFXI's combat are TP (enemy and player), status ailments and dealing with them, enmity mechanics, swapping gear for appropriate situations, collecting gear for those sets, etc.

Very few people are playing FFXI exclusively because they love making SC and then magic bursting them. Maybe 13 year olds back in 2006 were excited to be able to coordinate a SC on a mandragora and then burst blizzard 2 on it, but these days there are hundreds of better reasons to prefer FFXI over WoW

Welcome to FFXI. Here we have this thing called Skillchains + Magic Bursts.

You do NOT play BLM. You do NOT play SCH. You do NOT even play RDM.
Doesn’t even play GEO. So obviously NOT ever doing MB himself.

Yet everything is EZ when NOT actually playing those Jobs?
Too easy to even exist in FFXI any longer…
“Please just Delete the SC into MB process” cuz it’s too EZ on my Non-MB Jobs.

Hey bud...you know SMN can magic burst?

Also: you know people have more than 1 character in this game called FFXI? Because I do. And my second character has SCH, BLM, and RDM. And my friend's character, who I play from time-to-time, has BLM and GEO.

Also, I've been playing FFXI for 20 years. I know SCs exist, I've made them thousands of times. In fact, they're required for many of the bosses in Odyssey, and they're really helpful for Dynamis wave bosses, and they're required for Vagary bosses, and they're insanely strong in Sortie, and they're really good for CP, and...do I really need to continue?

That’s fantastic. This is ALL about BLM not lolSMN atm.

Also : post from OFF of your supposed sock puppet Account then & I will do such too myself in return. Please do NOT give advice about Jobs you do NOT even Play.

“PLD is a piss EZ Job. SE should just make WAR more viable so we can Subtract PLD out of the MIX making everything way too EASY”
Meanwhile I don’t even play PLD…….

OK? What in the world are you trying to prove?

Actually, your point was that I don't know anything about MB because I don't play BLM, RDM, or SCH. And my point was that SMN can and do magic burst, so your argument is stupid. I MB all the time for Kei on my SMN, and it's BRAINDEAD. You stand still and do nothing for 20-30 seconds, then hit a single macro, and then go back to your netflix show. I've actually magic bursted with 3 characters on the same skillchain. It's ridiculously easy and involves no skill whatsoever.