DD For Endgame

Except that's the exact opposite of what's going on here. There's a difference between handing someone a glass of water and throwing it in their face, it's all about delivery.

Guy comes in here and asks for honest advice about his endgame situation. People chime in and give him suggestions. For the most part, he's already on the right track and should fit right into endgame with his current setup, he just needs to find a group that will let him contribute, as he's likely not going to be a hindrance to any group's success, despite his weapon choice (it's still 'good enough'). He's obviously making progress to get better along the way, but he's able to participate now so why not.

Then the self-loving dude came in and made it all about "if you're 2nd place, you're the first loser" and started talking about being carried because he's not using raetic algol +1 or whatever. Doesn't matter cuz its not "good enough" for his kind. This happens every single time someone mentions Ragnarok being an "okay" weapon for getting into content. Every single time. Same person too.

I feel like DRK is one of the current top tier DD right now. The amount of WSD gear they have access to is silly and it seems like the changes are going to stick. I feel like it largely depends on the group you join and their preferences.

If you think it's about the weapon then your not thinking hard enough.

Default is the key word, meaning they didn't do research, meaning lack of effort.

The important part here isn't the weapon, but the mentality behind automatically choosing it. Instead of doing research, weighing pro's and con's of options, designing several sets around different objectives, choosing the correct set for the objective at hand, they just instead default to something "just cause".

That person is a liability in high end fights, regardless of how many shinnies they collected. The ability to critically analyze situations and determine the appropriate course of action is incredibly important in high end game play. The ability to identify various objectives and develop gear sets that hit those objectives is also critical.

So yes when I see a WAR (or DRK) defaulting to a Rag for everything, that demonstrated they lack those mentioned skill sets and should instead be put on BRD or GEO.

Reaching too hard man. He openly said he was looking to build a (better) weapon other than Rag, it's just what he has right now. You are psycho-analyzing and projecting way too much into this and it's not that deep.

They are still behind WAR/SAM but the difference is so small it's not even worth talking about and won't matter one bit to a groups win / loss rate. The bigger issue is the need to critically rethink gear and WS sets since the "WSD update / bug / whatever" massively reshuffled that hierarchy.

More like you guys just straw manning again cause you didn't read.

My quote exactly


Anyone who's doing the most basic of research knows that Rag is currently an acc swap weapon. There are multiple alternatives that provide for better damage.

Drk is a beast man. I loved my ragnarok and then I did something where I was with a caladbolg drk and me with ragnarok. I started caladbolg that night. The game runs in phases just like any other mmo as to what dd is best or top tier. You may as well play the job you want to play. Put the effort in on that job and itll be worth it

Saevel.. I think you're completely missing the point of this thread man.

The guy has a Master DRK with AG Rag. That's what he's working with. He's asked if he should pick a different DD since most people he talks to don't want him to go DRK.

That was it.. that was the question. It has nothing to do with "When I see a WAR default to a Rag I put them on GEO or BRD, DRK would be no different. If that statement doesn't make sense, then you are not yet ready for high end DPS fights."

He has a geared DRK, that's why people are recommending he look into Warrior if he feels he doesn't get to DD enough as DRK. There is a decent enough amount of gear overlap that he could gear it up to a playable level pretty quickly.

WTH does that have to do with the elitist attitude that any WAR/DRK who chooses to run with an AG Rag should be put on GEO or BRD?

That literally doesn't answer his question at all.

Pull your head out of of your *** and smell something other than your own ***for once dude

It did answer the question, you just didn't like the answer because feelings are more important then results. Specifically it answered the root cause instead of addressing a symptom, that the player needs to do basic research, determine a path for growth, establish a plan to follow that path at then execute it.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Montante_%2B1

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Zulfiqar

And for DRK only and it's kinda situational now

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Caladbolg_(Level_119_III)

The first two are easy upgrades to Rag, Zulf just got better because it can get WSD augments to go with DMG / Acc and even STR. It has a far better delay to work with and will reach a higher DPS potential. The Montante is even easier to work with then the Zulf but doesn't get WSD. They are both easy to obtain and should be the first thing upgraded. Then the next should be a refactor of the TP and WS sets to account for the new delay, assuming the player even bothered to do that in the first place.

The root cause isn't his job selection but the lack of attention to detail, research and critical thinking that went into his build. If someone has those three things they can do extremely well on any job.

You used the word default, not him. You're just projecting your high-minded contempt for something that had zero to do with the actual context of the OP. You invented the straw man by introducing that silly line of reasoning. He's clearly going to improve his weapon, but it's still good enough to participate in content. You're trying to make the illogical connection between a person's weapon choice/laziness and his ability to be useful in an endgame setting, and it's a huge leap in logic. And you literally do this every time someone shows up and says "Ragnarok is an okay weapon to use for endgame".

edit: My god i knew you were going to post links to the weapons.

I don't think job matters too much as long as you're playing to that job's potential.

The biggest thing is following instructions and survivability. You generally get far more time than you need to clear content making total DPS not a critical factor.

I'm ultimately looking for my DDs:
Not to die instantly/needlessly and wipe their buffs and be out of action for 3 mins.
Not to take unnecessary damage.
Not be in Space Narnia when taking damage.
Not to push damage when we aren't ready for it. (There are so many scripted TP moves that triggering them before expected can cause problems). Don't just mindlessly hit things.
Understand why we are doing things in a certain way. Know what TP moves are coming. You can look this up on wiki instead of having to be told.
Know when your back line is struggling and turtle up/slow down to recover.
Know your Skillchain properties. (For Realsies)
Use appropriate debuff WS. (WAR gets god tier debuff WS)
Have proper sets.
Change to DT/Hybrid/High Acc sets as necessary.
Listen.
Sometimes the right call is to do nothing.
Sometimes letting the monster be pulled away is useful for recovering. Try not to be the person continuing to DD when the tank is trying to move it.
Sometimes the right call is to just take the death too if you are causing problems.


DRK does really well. The longer fights go the better DRK and THF tend to do. If it's your play style is why people don't want your DRK then changing job probably isn't the solution.

WAR/DRK get great hybrid sets (Sulevia). WAR gets incredible debuff WS and great JAs. DRK gets High ATK, good JA haste from last resort and Super High HP from Drain3. MNK/SAM/NIN gets great Su3 armor. THF has incredibly DPS potential but is very squishy. DRG gets ways to dump hate. BLU still a ridiculous hybrid DD, RUN makes for a incredibly hard to kill DD that can change to tank on the fly. DNC get Fan Dance for survivability.

I could go on but as long as you're playing your job well I don't care too much about what it is as long as I can make a functional set up with it. Although, this is from a linkshell point of view rather than a shout group.

Quick edit: Also I can help gear up a DD far easier and faster than I can change someone's attitude. Try to be able to take constructive criticism well. Being ultra defensive makes for difficulties.

Yes because you like to fight for the underdog. The same person who complained about Rag when it was bandwagon material.

My advice to the OP and all up and coming DD's is to learn to do their own research, think critically about situations and learn to build their own gear sets to meet their objectives. Those three things will make them great on any job in any situation and expand to well outside the video game.

Now stop trying to pick fights over dumb stuff.

You're just making ***up now, since I myself have Rag and two of those items on the list, and never spoke about it being a bandwagon weapon. I know about the weapon hierarchy, that was never in question though. You're mistaking me for someone else, either way, your advice is literally useless because his weapon could have been omitted and it wouldn't change his original statements and thoughts about DRK/endgame. His issue was with perceptions from others about DRK being feasible in endgame, not his weapon being less than ideal. You've taken that totally out of context and followed up with a non sequitur.

It's always good to measure up once in a while when the situation is one that allows DDs to go full ham. When you're at the top end, it can be the best way to improve.

However, I also want to recognize that there are times when DDs getting into a pissing contest with each other can have adverse effects on the group. Sometimes less is more. Sometimes slowing the pace of a fight can increase your success, via things like less TP spam, or better skillchaining. Often people will just step all over each other in the pursuit of winning the parse at all costs.

The parse doesn't tell the whole story. Don't confuse the total damage contribution for the total ACTUAL contribution to the fight. Sometimes people will do things that reduce their own parse but increase the group's kill speed, and those people are the real unsung heroes.

You didn't. You chose to come here just to tell him he should work on other things or not bother going DD at all.

You're right.. he should work on other things. If he's going to main DRK he should do everything eh can to collect every weapon.. not just the GSs you listed. He should work on Calad, Lib, Apoc, Angunta (or whatever), and everything in between.

He should have a set for every aspect of the job. That doesn't just go for him, or DDs in general, but everyone.


How do you know he doesn't have these things? That's the problem. That's why everyone thinks you're attacking instead of being constructive.

All you know about him is he is Mastering his DRK and he has an AG Rag. You don't know any other information. He might have decent sets for every aspect of his job. They might not be perfect, since he's trying to clear end-game content he hasn't beaten yet, but you don't know that he isn't doing research or critically thinking.

Saevel.. you are one of the most respected members of our community. You're one of the most knowledgable Warriors around and you're a great resource for anyone who wants to get better.

But you do this ***all the time.

It's beneath you.

You don't need to come here and throw your *** on the table shouting "Look at me! Look at me!", which is all you're really doing here.

He has an AG Rag.. he's mastering his DRK.. those are the facts, and people have answered his question appropriately.

I haven't experienced that personally, and I'm usually the drk, but getting caught in a fast cast set or ratri or whatever is probably more harmful than SAM or WAR getting caught in a WS set. That added swap makes a difference at times, and I've died in those sets a handful myself. Even on RUN when swappig to FC or something vs Onych

Lol, this thread is hilarious. The OP posts here for advice and for the most part people are helpful. Then you have a select few who are like: go research the job. The most meaningful information you will get is not from bg wiki or wikipedia or job guides. All they can provide are suggestions for gear sets, which unfortunately have been changing almost every quarter if not more frequently (based on my perspective of having come back only last year). The irony is that asking advice from people actively playing is probably the best method of research and not something posted on a website that may or may not be outdated in a few months. Actual in-game knowledge for various events, NMs, etc. will come from currently active players.


Sounds to me you just need to find a more relaxed group. Joining a SMN-burn only group on a DD job will not work out well. That said, the only place where specific jobs have to be in place are for HELMs and Wave3 -- and even then it is only because (as others have posted) certain setups are essentially an easy-button for that specific event.

No need, really. Since last update and dyna wave 3 became a thing, the advantage of drk shines even more, and the disadvantage of drk(compare with war) are minimized. I feel drk is currently in overall better situation than war unless melee woc zerg is all you do.

One of the biggest advantage of war is dps vomit in 1-2 min fight via SPx2 +war cry stacking. However in endgame content like dyna D last for so long these days that the difference between DD with strong sp like ms and without is minimal. Further more, since attack and drain 3 for surviability matters in dyna, it really favors drk.

I used to abuse war for fusion ws in 6 man pt so they sc with savage blade too. With recent insurgency buff now drk also has very strong fusion ws option as well.

The job has access to important debuffs ws like full/armor break too, and infernal increases surviability. It's pretty versatile and these traits are very relevant in dyna D runs.

The problem with surviability is likely the issue with def- from LR, and you always have the choice to cancel it. Drk suffers less by canceling LR compare with war cancelling berserk I think, just because higher base attack from the job.

Really, besides melee woc I can't think of many situation that make war vastly superior choice. So I don't know how this "people want war only" mentality is still a thing in 2018.


Totally agree.

Sam has the advantage of /drg and not losing JA haste, and /drg makes quite a bit of difference for hate in wave 3 runs from what I've heard from those who bring 2h on regular basis.

I don't see how war has better surviability than drk besides more HP in turtle set though, maybe emergency defender?


This too, took me a very long time to find a group that doesn't SMN burn all things in 2017 so I can play my jobs......if your group is dead set on SMN setup, the best way is to leave and find like minded people to play with. FFXI is a game, so play the way however you want should be No.1 priority, not the other way around. It's not like work irl that if you don't adapt then you can't pay your bills. No need to change yourself to do something you really hate to accomdate other people's need imo.

Give this man a medal. Truer words have not been spoken in quite some time.

Seems like it's been covered, but I'll just reiterate some points in affirmation:

1. If you want to play a DD that isn't SMN, don't join a pet burn group. Find or build a group of people that will allow you to play what you want.

2. Not all DD are created equal, but most DD are 100% acceptable for the hardest content in the game provided you do the work to make them acceptable.

3. Someone doesn't want to accept you? ***'em, make your own group. I did. I've always had to do that as a main dragoon. Dragoon as always been pretty viable - even in the "dark days" as I like to call them. MNK is going through its own "dark days", but it can still be acceptable. Leading your own groups also gives you infinite knowledge about the mechanics of the game and requirements for success which makes you an all-around better player.

4. Get that "DRK is bad" ***out of your head. As long as you put in the effort to make it good, DRK is right next to and sometimes ahead of WAR/RUN. (Especially if you have Liberator and a max WSD set)

I like that everyone bypassed the OP's actual question and gave their opinion of how he should live his life. It's all true, but not based on reality.

Just ditch all your friends and stick to DRK is the response I've seen. And while everyone is correct, the people you're playing with are the problem, not your job given that you seem properly geared, I'm surprised no one suggested RNG. It's a solid ranged job that can make light and dark with just about everyone, and do a lot of damage.

No reason it should be. They can get some of the highest MEVA gear in the game (higher than almost all other melee DD) and should have some of the lowest hate generation by using TA on someone else.

...and evasion is actually viable in some places.

Monk.

Bravura aftermath if you're worried about damage taken in WS gear.

I have a WAR in my LS that uses Bravura in Dyna with us and does pretty well, and typically when we die, she doesn't.

@the OP

Maybe post your gear, let some people try to help you so you can play end game DRK, at this point in the game there really is no wrong dd job. They can all be good some better in some niche way than others, its much less about the job and is more about the player.

Trying to strong arm your way into end game cause you have a AG rag seems....odd at best. It would probably be better to round yourself out more as a player, as in other jobs and gear them with the ability to play them. Than just to come here and cry about how no one wants drk, No one really wants someone with one job, and a dd to boot. I would think that probably this is more your problem than DRK in it self.

The DD job itself really isn't that important out of a few specific instances, it's all about having proper support behind them and a brain in everyone's heads.

I bring MNK to stuff all the time, we don't lose anything because of it.

Really though, if you're having trouble finding people to play with, it's because adequate DDs are a dime a dozen, and if that's all you can offer, you aren't super desirable. Suck it up and adequately gear some mage/tank jobs and be more flexible.