BiS Chango Hybrid/DT Sets

In theory if you use GS and hit DT- set macro on every single TP move and spell cast, successfully, 100% of time, then you don't need a hybrid set.

But for us average players it's unlikely to happen so it's more realistic to TP in hybrid.

To give an idea of what I'm talking about I'll use a WoC fight were we deliberately block this stun and petrify. WoC is CL150 which is the very top of the level based stat chart.

373 Base
36 Gifts
349 Gear

*Thunder*
230 Barspell
144 Thunder Carol
100 Thunder Carol II

*Stone*
144 Earth Carol
100 Earth Carol II

That gave us 1232 MEVD against Thunder attacks and 1002 against Earth attacks. We also had Barpetrify but the exact values of those haven't been figured out nor exactly how they interact so I don't want to put them here. With those I didn't get stunned during impact stream nor petrified from medusa javelin.

1000~1200 MEVD was effective against a CL150 NM, and from what I'd guess they have 8~10 MACC scaling per level instead of the 30 physical evasion they get (was 36 but SE nerfed it).

So yes magic evasion is a critical defensive stat, we didn't need it before SoA because we got it naturally as we leveled up. Then when we needed it we used GEO instead, so now people aren't used to actually caring about it because it doesn't show up on your equip screen or /checkparam, but it exists and is very noticeable.

I'm asking suggestions, i'm not arguing my point to be fact. I actually respected your opinion before this post. Why name call? There are plenty of ways of correcting me without the need of the negativity? Do people actually like you?

Thanks anyway for the constructive criticism...

You asked, I answered


Then you said something very dumb involving silence, as though that actually mattered.

On that note, silencing NM's is stupid and shouldn't' be done (unless they cast Death, but those guys normally can't be silenced). Spells have a 3s global lockout time, this also applies to monsters, for the entire time the monster is casting their spell plus for the 3s afterwards they are completely open and not doing anything to you. Furthermore if they are in that spell cycle they aren't able to use TP moves. TP Moves tend to have a faster charge time and only a 2s global lockout on them.

Now what's more dangerous to everyone, spells (non-death) or TP moves? Instead of silencing the, they need to be casting Addle I / II / Pinning to make them even more vulnerable.

yeah 1200 MEVA is a lot however we aren't talking about the difference between one with 0 MEVA and one with 1200 MEVA. We're talking about a Hybrid set which has a difference between 70~200 MEVA

So.... what difference does, for example, Arke +1 Body and Sulevia+2 for a total of 69 MEVA and 3 MDB on say... CL150? Or CL130?

This is what I said. Giving context to the event, and what others are doing. The silencing has nothing to do with me, good or bad. I'm referring to a situation where a mob will not cast on me, as a warrior. Trying to maximize my hybrid set.

To be honest, you even being negative on a warrior forum and referencing a silence (mage spell) spell isn't very constructive.

I'd worry about capping PDT while maintaining a good level of acc/multihit if you got a rdm that can keep silenced the rdm, blm and specially the *** volte blu + NM, a lot of these volte enemies or the NMs themselves can 1-shot any non tank char that isnt riding capped pdt and even then, you might get 1-shot too unless you riding wilt/-att debuffs on the tougher guys.

A RDM makes dyna-D life a lot easier, wave3 mega bosses are lol when shut down.

Finally someone that agrees with me. /clap! We may be on our own with this one.

You feelings are irrelevant to the discussion at hand, this isn't about you.

Silence has nothing to do with this discussion, it's meaningless and you brought it in as a reason not to bother with MEVD. The stuff we are concerned about is additional effects on TP moves, for years now SE has made a habit of loading content with annoying status ailment inducing TP moves that we need to deal with.

Just to demonstrate using your own example of Dynamis D,

Sandy
Shoulder Tackle - Stun

Bastok
Shell Bash / Head Butt - Stun

Windy
Double Kick - Stun
Sweep - AoE Stun

Jueno
Fry Pan - AoE Stun

And that's just stun, there are more like knockback + gravity from Bastok or the ridiculous assortment of status ailments goblins toss at you. Then Wave 3 throws even more ***in your general direction.

That's with stacking carols, you aren't going to be using carols on content under CL150. MEVD is a lot like accuracy, it gets scaled base on what your fighting. CL135~140 stuff normally is just barspells to lockout the most annoying move. Different TP moves have different bonus's / penalties to magic accuracy (remember when Ageha wouldn't land or anything worthwhile), which gives a variance to the MEVD requirements thus no locked down universal number and people like you just ignoring the value entirely. Stun related abilities tend to have a magic accuracy bonus with them combined with several resist states causing it to be quite accurate. In order to reduce the effectiveness of stun your going to need to push your MEVD rate to over 80~90%.

Body is normally around 65~69 MEVD, which is anywhere from 34~60% resist rate depending on where your at in the range.

Now on something with two resist states, this is what a 50% resist rate would look like


Flat Resist 25% (you win twice)
Partial Resist 25% (half duration) (you win first lose second)
No Resist 50% (full duration) (you lose first)

So at 50% resist rate on a two state attack you would be hit by it 75% of the time with 50% being for full duration. If we bring it to three resist states that gets pushed up to over 80%.

Now lets bring the resist rate to 75% (the enemy wins the roll 25% of the time), which is around 50 MEVD (less actually).

Flat Resist 56.25
Partial Resist 18.75%
No Resist 25%

So now at 75% resist rate your only being hit 43.75% of the time and the full duration is only 25% of the time.

Now lets go to 90% resist rate

Flat Resist 81%
Partial Resist 9%
No Resist 10%

Only 19% of the time will the effect land and only 10% will be full duration.

Now lets push it to 95%.

Flat Resist 90.25%
Partial Resist 4.75%
No Resist 5%

9.75% of the time the enfeeble lands, and only 5% are for full duration.


MEVD has dramatic effect once your past 50% initial resist rate and a noticeable effect around 50%. Under 50% it becomes negligible as it's very unreliable. Now because different attacks and different status ailments have different ranges, even at the same CL, we can't fine tune it to be exactly at 90%+ rate. Instead we need to pile it on and create a situation were we target specific debuffs to lock out. Now if barspells and carols (really high tier content) didn't exist this would be a moot point since you would almost always be under the 50% range, level scaling has a way of doing that. But with a single barspell you can put yourself well into the range where consist resists are possible. By deliberately inflicting a magic evasion down debuff on yourself, you are just causing more status ailments to land and preventing your support from locking out a nasty one.

MEVD isn't about reducing damage, though it helps in that regard, it's about reducing the effect of status ailments. This is why I said MEVD is important or anything dangerous. Anything that is so weak that you would be blowing past the 90% threshold without minding barspells or gear MEVD would be too weak to be worth discussing much. Highest tier content (CL150) can still be blocked using resist stacking and thus MEVD still retains much value even there.

@Saevel
what have you augmented on your backpiece for such a set? You go full Magic Evasion or just in some slots?

I agree with most of your information. At some point, outside of stun, I like to let the whm do their job. Outside of stun and amnesia (pardon if im missing some abilties); as a whm i can remove the problem within 1-2 seconds of it landing on my DD. This expectation goes for every WHM I am with.

I don't understand why, mostly because of pure experience with my linkshell, none of this is problematic.

Tomorrow night I will log our dynamis run and I will post the exact amount of seconds our DD are stunned/amnesia'ed. Not because I'm trying to prove that Im correct. I would just like to see how affected our DD are to make MEVA important in this event.

Its' my TP DD cape with PDT-10 on it. The vast amount of MEVD comes from the five visible gear slots and outside of specialty sets (RUN JSE / Turms / Inyanga +2) it's pretty standard amounts. SE didn't randomly pick those values, their set to put you right at the appropriate level that you could, in theory, resist stuff consistently. The higher tier the content, the more extra stuff you need to add on top, the lower tier the less stuff you need to add. CL130 and above is where we are focused because that's the majority of the stuff that's dangerous and where defensive sets matter.

The point isn't to completely block everything, since that's not possible without super selective gear that tends to be job restricted, it's to block the majority of stuff and enable the group to lockout out one really nasty debuff (usually Stun / Amnesia / Petrify like stuff).


Riiight...

I predict your findings will support whatever opinion you have already formed and argued for.


Stun ... in Dynamis D...

The bad ***is
Virus / Paralyze / Blind / Defense Down / Attack Down / Magic Defense Down / Slowga / Sleep

The very bad ***is
Amnesia / Stun / Petrify / Terror / Charm

You almost certainly don't remove it in 1~2s consistently, probably 1~2s after you notice it, now add the 2~3s worth of dynamis lag to that number. Then another 4~5s if you were in the middle of something when it happened and thus must deal with the same 3s global cooldown all magic does. A 4~6s debuff removal time is pretty standard for high end healers, it's got nothing to do with fast cast or skill and everything to do with casting lock and global cooldowns.

It seems that my interpretation is different from you. A 69 Meva can be anywhere between 0 and 100% resist rate.

For example, you have no whm and brd buff. That Meva isn't going to do jack. So it will be 0%. On the other extreme, whm and brd brings you over the 100% even without that 69 meva then it's still 0 because you can get away with it.

It's like accuracy. Around the sweet spot of 20-95% hit rate and you're golden. Outside of it and you either have too much and the extra aren't doing anything.

So go back to the CL150. How can you be sure that having 69 more meva will allow you to resist more?

This is because you didn't realize that MACC has a much lower scaling rate then accuracy. WHM's Barspell is 230, meaning +230 magic evasion. That along is what makes it possible for you to consistently resist stuff past CL130 without being a RUN or wearing very special gear. Outside of special sets, gear doesn't have wildly different magic evasion values, it's pretty standard. SE didn't put random values in there, those are deliberately made so as to enable the player to be within that golden range.

On any content that matters you will have a WHM and thus have 200~230 barspell. On really hard content you'll need to add a BRD to reach the same level. Melee's can effectively resist stun's with Barthunder up to Dynamis Wave 2, after that it gets dicey because Wave 3 is nearly T4 HELM power.

69 MEVD is 34% to 60% land rate depending on where you are at and which debuff is being used. In theory if you knew the exact MACC of the NM along with any Mag Acc bonus's on it's TP moves, you could make several sets that would adjust your MEVD to be precisely within the appropriate range.

You haven't done this, you have a couple of DT sets you use for everything. Thankfully because MACC scales so much slower we don't need to hyper tailor our sets, provided we don't do anything dumb like wear gear without any MEVD.

We've asked for MEVD and MACC to be shown in /checkparam and SE said it would be too difficult on their side to bother with it. Because we can't get exact values, it's hard to say "you need 1123 MEVD for fight A and 1089 for fight B" and instead we say "don't be dumb in your gear, use these barspells and you will be fine".

I've parsed debuffs landing with kparse before (it works really well for this) and MEVD matters, a lot. There is a reason Attunement + Vex shut down high level NMs.

Addle 2 says hi, we run Rdm.

A piece of Arke in engaged probably has little effect in a run, if using a force equip macro for incoming known damage, you are certainly better off not using Arke.

Or maybe having a brd and whm would push you over the 100% resist rate without that 69 Meva or maybe

But then again you can also have a Meva set like relic armor if you worry more about resist than and hybrid DT set.

As you have said before it's like accuracy. Having too much or too little would make it fairly irrelevant, then having a bit more or less wouldn't matter. Meva is the same.

Same concept but much much smaller scale. That last part is important because it makes the over / under far less likely to occur. iLevel mobs gain ~30 accuracy / evasion per level past 99 (it's actually smaller at start but gets bigger as the CL goes up), they only get around 8~10 MACC / MEVD per level.

The real issue, which I've said numerous times, is that different enfeebles have different magic accuracy bonus's connected to the NM's base magic accuracy rate. Thus while 1000 MEVD might be enough to reliable resist one status effect, you would need 1100 MEVD to do the same to another status effect.

In theory, if we knew the MEVD requirements for each TP move of each NM, we could do a react type setup that would have a dozen different scaled DT sets that would get us exactly where we needed to be. Since we don't have that info, we take the more generic approach of not inflicting ourselves with Magic Evasion Down debuff.

Thanks all for your inputs. I want to stress this discussion was based on Hybrid needs; not full turtle.