Dev Tracker - Discussion

Someone with a static would actually be in a much better position to use extra plates than someone relying on pick-up groups. A casual player would have a much harder time utilizing an extra run a day than a hardcore player. Extra points or cases would benefit a a fresh player far more than an extra plate. This logic is backwards.

For entry level players at fresh 99, the A quadrant monsters give about 4800 CP per monster without any chains or bonuses, in addition to their gallimaufry.

They're relatively easy to kill. About on par with lower end Apex in terms of gains and such from Dho or Sih Gates.

Means exemplar wise for an ML0, they've giving probably a couple hundred exemplar.

It's not stellar, but the gains are commensurate with the power of the mobs, and it's forward momentum on all fronts.

And that's just the A Quadrant mobs. Basement mobs give great exemplar, even at higher ML.

I used to solo all of the Pixies in F for an extra basement chest, because in spite of the full dispel chance, they were easier to kill for their objective than the Flan one in E for me.

P.S. If you use ML50 as a gauge for what's valuable to a newbie, then you're a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

Galli and stone farming...in 20 minutes, ok, lets run some numbers:
Casket #A1 100
Casket #A2 100
Coffer #A 500
A wing = Kill 5 Abject + Obdella
Casket #B1 This is a newb with ***gear, is this goal doable?
Casket #B2 100
Coffer #B 500, if you can do Casket B1
B wing = Kill 3 Biune + Porxie
Coffer #C 500
C wing = Kill Bhoot
Casket #D1 100
Casket #D2 I dont think this is reliable solo with trusts. D1, yes, you can limit links, but to do that while getting the 6 specific jobs in order? I dont see it as a reliable goal.
Coffer #D 500
Top Aurum 1000
D wing = Kill Deletrius + 6 diff job Demisang
Casket #F1 300
Casket #G1 300
Casket #H1 0, why? Bold to assume a newb has access to H

4000 Galli + whatever from kills, up to (and that is very generous) 13 old case, 11 Sapphire, 2 starstone.


But I dont think all that is happening in 20 minutes.

How much EP is the abject leech giving at ML0? I have nothing to compare to, but I dont think its a huge number.
wrt CapPts: I havent gained a capacity point in eons so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Wait, I just noticed this:
You dont even know. You're trying to gotcha me with assumptions.

Well, this seems true on its face, but in reality it is not.

There are a bunch of campaigns that don't give enhanced rewards at all, but do aid you in not having to do, "busy work" to get a net time gain or enable mechanics that enhance your farming of the content.

Like the Abyssea Lights Campaign, or the campaign closest to this one, Dynamis Granules of Time Campaign.

The latter is essentially what this campaign is, except better in a way, because instead of just doubling our time in one instance, it's giving us the ability to have double instances (so we don't gotta come up with anything new, just farm the same way twice).

Put another way:

There are no campaigns and have never been any campaigns that double REMA upgrade currency. There's no double dynamis money campaign. There's no double Alexandrite in Salvage campaign. There's no double Nyzul tokens campaign. No double Therion Ichor. No double Riftcinders campaign.

This is as close as it gets, because Gallimaufry gains are largely static.

So what you're saying is you get to do more in X time, instead of being able to do X twice.

So no, its not the same, its not the same at all.

Guess Mastery Rank 10 might be behind maxed out trusts.

You mean like the double plasm campaign for ergons?

I would also argue that the HTMB can much more than double the amount of REMA materials if you're multi boxing lol. From 5 boxes per fight to 20 if multi-boxing a whole party.

Eh. As someone who really doesn't mind Sortie (actually the group I run with has a fun time just talking trash doing 8/9 boss) I was excited at first glance to be able to get more Galli. Then I realized with everyones schedules we already barely EVER had time to use our original stocked plate to do a double run. Once every month or 2 maybe we would squeeze one in. So I doubt we'll actually benefit from this one much at all. It should have just been a Galli multiplier. I wouldn't even have blinked if it was 1.5x. Hell, I probably would be happier with 1.25x Galli over a free second run for x2 at the cost of another hour of my limited time.

The campaign is really bad... It's not aimed at new players or established players, despite anyone's cope in either direction. It's just more disrespect of our time.

Doing ANYTHING else to enhance our runs, like they've done with EVERY OTHER campaign for any given piece of content (Odyssey even for example) would benefit both new and established players simultaneously.

Why go to bat for SE on this? When they make bad choices like this, they should be told it's really bad, no ones happy, and to do better...

MOST new players will have too much to do to bother doing double runs, assuming you can even open enough boxes to get the key item consistently and that's taking into account that they already have to have been USING their double run in the 1st place to refresh the KI

Established hardcore teams that use their KI weekly or bi-weekly depending on how frequently they run MIGHT use it and do double runs more often, but as others have said this is a FRACTION of the established teams or players who PUG.

The majority of bonus key items generated will be used to solo/practice/fix an aminon mistake, and the gains will be very sub par when you factor the time commitment and scheduling.

No matter how you toss it, having the campaign not boost runs passively in ANY way (you can debate all you want on how much is appropriate), to incentivize people to do the content more, engage in objectives, help new/returning players bridge the gap, give established players some reprieve on the horrible drop rates...? .......... That's a horrible decision, and really out of touch. Nope, none of that.

Whomever they have making some of these decisions lately is just plain out of touch... for every few things that are great (Orvail keys, Shami's Trove, Strange Happenings RSE)... We get NONSENSE decisions that no body wants or just waste great opportunities forever. (ACP HTMB, new Phantom Gem campaign, new Sortie Campaign, Limbus Telopanos weapon Augments, ...Limbus as a whole)

EDIT: And yeah, obviously it's not for a player like me... But i'm arguing its not really FOR anyone. It's just bad. If you want to help new players actually help them... If you want to make players enjoy/engage in the content for a limited time... (isnt that the point of a campaign?), make it temporarily more rewarding... They've done it with most every other campaign, I see no reason why they can't simply get this right.

This is so stupid I don't even get how they could think anything like that.
Altough I guess it's "good" that they are finally thinking to do "something" about Sortie and Gallimaufry, even if it's the wrong thing.

First and foremost, given how you still have the 6 months cap with Voracious Psyches, even if you allowed people to gather a GAZILION of Gallimaufry it wouldn't exactly make obtaining Prime Weapons faster... but it could have the consequence of "I'm not gonna do sortie for the next 2 months because I already have all the Galli I need". Which doesn't exactly sound unequivocally bad to me, but I guess they don't want that.
Fine, I can accept it.

Then again what they're really worried about is people who can get 80/100k Galli per run. If SE allows those people to gain more galli per run, then they think it's a "problem".
They would love to give a boost to people who farm 6boss or even less.
If what they wanted to do was give a small boost to people behind but avoid giving a boost to people who already do 9bosses run, they could have implemented a system that gives you a Gallimaufry bonus at the end of the run (when the timer expires or when you use the item to exit the zone) and the bonus you receive is related to how many bosses you killed, but it won't exceed a cap of X Gallimaufry. So that if you do a 9bosses run you get zero.
The value of X could be, I dunno, 60k? And you receive, say, 3k per boss. So a max potential of 24k bonus but if you already do 8 bosses you would see only <10k, and if you do 7 bosses or less it would be more etc.

I dunno this is just a silly example, but it's a very quick idea that came to mind on how they could help people lagging behind on Sortie without giving too much of a bonus to people who are already overflowing in Galli with their 90k+ per daily run.


The Sortie Earring exchange is another story, they should implement it as a regular addition not as a campaign, The *** are they waiting for?!

My suggestion for sortie campaigns was give basically a permanent movement speed buff in there for the campaign so we don't have to plan around bolters roll. I'd also love to see an improvement in the earring situation.

There ain't no way you are convincing all six party members to do back to back runs every day for the majority of the month of November, especially in that fourth week.

I have your solution to this problem right here Dex:

You're still limited by the Ambuscade loot caps, but you're still getting more reward for less time invested.

Double Galli on all upstairs mobs and bosses.

+/- 10k for a full run group. But also a huge benefit to newer players and groups who's focus is upstairs and maybe E/G.

Makes too much sense, would never happen.

Towards the end of last year and through the beginning of this year, I ran solo (single box + trusts) Sortie. I wanted to get +2 and +3 empyrean armor 5/5 for my five jobs. It took a bit to learn and optimize a route, but once I had it down I would earn between 15k to 18k galli a run + several opportunities for sapphires and starstones (and in fact, I was never short of sapphires or starstones when I needed them and had many of both left over when I was done). No speedhacks or addons that told me where the blitzers were or anything like that. Since I needed 2 million galli, I ran it every single day for a bit over 4 months iirc. At no point did I ever use my shiny plate. I even had the occasional screw up where I would die in a position I couldn't reraise from without just immediately dying again and I simply had to abort the run then and there and homepoint. Even then, I never entertained the idea of doing a second run to make up for that. For me at least, two sortie runs in a single day was a hard no.

The goal is MORE sortie. Not less. Double the galli = half the runs. Bad metrics.

Does farming VW for plates/ riftcinder / riftdross outside of the Campaign vs during count as doubling? If anything its MORE than doubling given how much of a pain it is to do outside of the cqmpaign.

I thought Sortie had to be heavily gated because the servers couldnt handle all the gearswap packets and area congestion and blah blah blah

now its more Sortie is needed for metrics??

If they wanted more Sortie "fer da mertix", maybe they should have done a better secondary entry item that doesnt fully charge until 120 hours after you last exited Sortie. I think I got that math right: 20 hours to recharge primary entry item, and then 100 hours to fully charge the ruspix plate.

This isn't really true. Campaign isn't necessary at all for Emp items, you just need the light bonus items. Campaign is for the rare drops like weapons and armor.

I take this as sarcasm from the PoV of whoever made this campaign, but there are also a lot of people who don't make time for Sortie at the moment. So would they be more likely to go from not doing Sortie often to doing a single run of Sortie most days for 2x Galli, or more likely to go from not doing Sortie often to doing 2 runs a day for that 2x Galli? I honestly think the metrics would have just been better and more useful for every type of Sortie player to just give 1.5 to 2x Galli. For me it's the same concept as me never doing Delve, but when there's a double plasm campaign I will spam that ***for a couple hours on a few different days during the campaign. I think more people who don't do much Sortie would be enticed more by double Galli for 1 run than people who don't do much Sortie being enticed by having to do 2 runs in the same day for that double Galli.

Eh, Eiryl's 100% correct here. They're not going to GIVE us 1.5x or 2x Galli outright, because that means you finish the only carrot they can dangle FASTER with the same effort (Primes) in less time. They want you playing the game MORE, subscribing LONGER, running through hallways of Sortie every day of your life, just like Limbus. It's just another covert way of getting you to invest more of your time for a "boost". Everything they've done lately is a constant leech on your time.

Then why offer the ability to go twice a day and risk congestion? Because it comes at a cost, your precious time, and they know (as expressed by many comments here) that most aren't going to invest an extra hour slogging through every day for the double entry reward and Sortie twice per day, so it's only a campaign benefit IF you choose to suffer through it and spend YOUR valuable time for those extra points. It never gets to "congestion" issues, just like they can offer free Phantom Gems daily and those zones will never fill up due to congestion, because it's barely a bonus anyone cares about. Only the most dedicated players or those who really want to make progress will spend their two Sortie entry KIs daily, but that is such a small minority of players, it's not even an issue from a congestion perspective, and even if it was, it's only for the length of the campaign, which to them is probably an acceptable tradeoff.

everyone always says "they have to keep you playing" - this is obviously true, yes, but they also only ever assume things are one-and-done, or a direct single grind that when completed leads people to quit

Dexprozius has what, three stage 5s and a stage 4 waiting on Voracious Psyches? (that madman. chime in Dex I bet you're reading this) People don't necessarily quit when they finish a specific grind. Some people do! But not all. And I don't know a way to quantify that but SE should. so it's one of those "we don't have enough data but we talk about it anyway" situations

The 99% do. They grind, they burn out, they take a break.

The 1% are not what you should base your concepts on.

It may be confusing because you only hear from those 1% lifers on a forum.

Congestion is server congestion, not zone congestion. Those extra sortie doers are congesting regardless. Limbusing or apexing/locusing or whatevering.

The 99% aren't paying for 6 accounts either.

I'm just speaking generally from a video game developer perspective. They need to keep ALL of their players playing, not just one demographic. Veterans who have accomplished most of everything in the game and new/returnees who have so much still to conquer, and everything in between. If they make some of the only things left for veterans to do easier to accomplish, those players will see there's nothing left to play for and find other things to do with their time (other games, family, wellness etc). They also can't make things so out of reach for players at the bottom/middle, because that could lead to discouragement or goals that are so far out of reach that players likewise quit out of frustration. It's a happy medium. They added Mastery Rank at the top level to keep those players engaged probably forever. MLs is busy work for players at the middle. Limbus was designed for ALL groups, though it has varying effects on different players. Still, the goal is the same, to keep everyone playing and engaged. A select few might finish before others, but if a large group of players do, they risk losing that large group faster.

It really is a game within a game of trying to keep most players interested, and right now, their focus is on helping newbies catch up while still giving the veterans something to do. They just refuse to make it easy for the more experienced players for obvious reasons.

No, that's not what I said at all, Jordan Peterson Interview Lady.

When you walk into an old Dynamis zone under the campaign, you don't magically get 8 currency pieces per mob proc'd and killed. You get a time addition, that in reality is however long it would have taken you to go around killing the Time Extensions, which varies by zone and Movement Speed (usually like an extra 10~20 minutes for raw farming).

In essence, that itself is a time extension. You are being given the opportunity to do more of the same content.

The potential extra Sortie plate daily is the same thing, but a larger amount. More opportunity to do more of the same content.

So it's exactly the same thing, but for different events. I guess you never handled analogies in a testing format, huh?


Oh no, an exception! For the two least made REMA in the entire game. Tied to content that is still gated by 3 real character entry. For a system that benefits 2/22 jobs.

It sure seems to have set a precedent, hasn't it?

What, no way?!?


Its almost as if I said that yesterday.