Dev Tracker - Discussion

For folks who are saying, it's an oversight, you're entitled to your opinion. My humble opinion is that these one-off allowances, are probably intentional to inject some variance into the content. Much like the Skeletons in Sortie that aggro sight. From our perspective, "oh it's one-off so it must be a bug". I disagree, I think it's intentional but we won't know for sure.

When the content is heavily luck based and so annoying to do no one wants to do it again after getting a clear, you resort to cheesing for RP.

Hence why so few people actually do clears. Blame the content, not the cheese. If the content were fun, no one would put themselves through 15min of boredom for RP.

People dont do content because is "fun" or whanot.

People do it for the only reason it has a reward that they feel worth it.

AKA mythics, ambu, sortie, omen, etc etc etc

After one or two weeks of doing content, hardly anything can stay "fun" for long.

The people you know don't do content because it's fun.

Me and the people I play with, we do a ton of stuff because it's fun - lowman, alternative strats, unconventional party compositions, solo with or without trusts.

I just left a sortie run on blm+sch with only passive trusts. Was hard, tons of fun, bit of panic, and we learnt a lot about mechanics of the game and limits of our gear.

Before Ody gear was a thing, I was doing Cait Sith D on war/dnc with trusts. I didn't need drops, I wanted to see if it was possible. I was about to try VD when I had to unsub due to life kicking my butt.

I am not the majority of people, nor is the people I play with, but there's enough of us that the sentence "people don't play for fun" makes no sense, it's too big of a generalization.

I think you're missing the point. You don't have to choose between cheese and trying to kill. You can use the amplifier, try to kill it, then time out afterwards. You'll get more RP than 5% cheesing, in the same amount of time. So, whether you're measuring in segments or time it is still more efficient to try to kill it.

Man, that sounds amazing. but for most people on the forums, we are way past that and attempting to do the hardest content in the game with SE making sure they do everything possible to make the experience unattainable until you hit every check box constantly, then you gotta wait for the planets to align-right.

Sortie is *** boring, you can have fun out of it but it's not fun doing content for a year and watching the goalpost move to prime weapons that have zero meaning other than stretching out a poorly designed system

Games in the gutter for me, a person 2 mobs away from v25 Bumba with no interest in prime weapons with all his empy+3 done and ML50 on 6 jobs and 4 at 40. When you have carrots to chase and are/or being carried you assume everything is fine and fun but more experienced players are watching their friends quit because the games just not hitting that itch or are displeased with the content coming out while the developer pats themselves on the back on a job well done.

The point I'm trying to make is a group farming V25 Bumba without Amps winning every fight (which is nigh impossible) should NOT net less RP per seg than a group that is literally failing.

V25 Bumba win = 1164 RP for 3000 segment (0.388 RP per seg)

Please correct me if I have any steps in this wrong.
V25 timeout 6% = 29 RP
V25 timeout 6% = 29 RP
V25 timeout 6% = 29 RP
V25 timeout 6% with amp = 7013 FP

13500 segments spent for 7100 RP gained (0.526 RP per seg).

If I have those numbers wrong, once again, please correct me where there are errors.

Those numbers are wrong.
A charged V25 timeout will give you ~9k.

Also it makes very little sense to compare charged up fails to uncharged/noampli Wins.

If you wanna use charged up tri-fails sure, but then at least compare them to charged up wins, or it makes no sense.


I'm a bit puzzled though, why are you taking this topic so much by heart if you don't even know exactlyhow it works? (maybe because atm you're not playing, I dunno)

It's over 9k for a triple V25 w/ amplifier on the bonus NM.


nvm sechs beat me

that same single Bumba v25+ Amplifier used, not charged, would turn into 0.776 RP per seg. The math can be skewed either way.

You're doing it wrong anyway.

V25 with charge 6% amp = ~9400 RP
V25 timeout 6% amp = ~2450 RP
V25 timeout 6% amp = ~2450

13500 segments spent for ~14500 RP earned. Even if you spend the charge and turn the others into segs, you end up with 9400 RP for roughly 8k total cost.

Even if you do it the other way, using amps is worth doing on the 3 attempts when building the charge, 4500 Segments with a return of ~7500 segments.

So the way you are doing it, if you amped them, it would be 18000 segments spent, ~17500 RP earned, for a rate of (0.972 RP/seg)

Edit 2: Nobody is killing v25 Bumba in 1 KI anyway, so you're looking at 2 runs to kill, even if you don't have a charge, you're looking at ~2400 + ~3000 with amped kills on him, for 9k spent. Still a better rate. for the win run at 0.6 RP/seg)

Moral of the story is you should always amp up

You don't need a break. If you're not going to realign your expectations for the game, you're just going to be perpetually disappointed. It's a 20 year old, partial sandbox MMO that they aren't putting resources into. When you don't pace yourself and have fun, you're going to get bored.

Quick correction, but doing 5% damage for 3x v25 using 3 amplifiers will yield 9341+2357+2357=14,055 RP for the cost of 13,500 segments (assuming moglophone is charged with v25 x3).

You get 6984 RP from charge (assuming v25 x3 from previous run) and then 2328 RP for the amplifier, and then 29 RP for the 5% damage done.

29RP for the 5% dmg done is just so *** hilarious compared to how much the amplifier gives for free.

Yeah,I didn't have the actual numbers, just estimates. I've since put it in a spreadsheet :D

Yeah but still, Amplifier is totally working as SE intended, they accounted for this and wanted this to happen! [/sarcasm]

Idc what anyone says or copes, said it before and I'll say it again 100% they did not want to have amplifiers work this way, but this is how they were able to implement them and they either couldn't find a way to change them or didn't have the time. Zero chance their intention was to hand these augments out practically for free and the argument that "you spent the time and energy getting the first clear, that's good enough" is hogwash. In no world should standing there afk for 15 minutes be worth only a couple to a few hundred points less than getting the son of a *** to 20%, but here we are.

What if Sortie was the answer to easy cheesy Odyssey RP like "*** you, this grind is 3827948923 times harder now out of spite."

Sortie needs some amplifiers lol.

Those purple hallways are getting lonely.

For me the intended use is very clear, and it's how we do it.

Doing 5% damage, 3 times, with three different set of jobs, will earn you a charge for your amp.

If you do 3 T3, V25 it gets spicy. You really have to plan for it.

The problem is when you wipe early and have to wait 15mins inside. This is bad for the players and bad for the game since it blocks the instance for everyone else. Would have been much better if we could exit the fight into the lobby. If you force exit, you have to wait outside, this would prevent people going in and out asap.

Segments take care of that by adding the limiting factor. Let people spam is better then wasting players time. Having a forced exit option sounds fantastic.

Yeah Amps are definitely working as intended, they were added as a way to farm RP after getting the clear because the required RP values past V15 got big and the fights at V20 were stupid. V15 fights were straight forward, starting at V20 they got stupid and the Amps were SE's answer to that stupidity.

Well no ***they're, at a base level, working as intended as a way to increase RP gained, but that doesn't mean the way they add the extra RP is how they actually wanted it to be. Charged Amplifiers are practically independent of your performance on the NM and instead give you RP based on an average of the Vengeance level of the NMs that you have fought rather than multiplying the reward you get for bringing the NMs to lower percentages. It's evident that the way an amplifier works at its base is how it was supposed to be (i.e. a multiplier on your actual RP gained), but the charged amplifier bonus was implemented in such a half *** way that the base RP barely matters unless you can actually kill the NM.

The 5% gets you a little under 2.4k w/ an amp. The charge bonus adds on 6,984 by itself for no additional effort as long as you do 3 V25s to charge it. It's an inordinately large bonus for doing nothing extra.

As has been mentioned before, this is a company who has historically made progression as difficult and annoying as possible. Making the best gearsets in the game a freebie being the original design intent is incredibly farfetched. Is it an exploit? No. But I refuse to believe that SE was actually this generous on purpose.

Yeah, I fully agree. I was thinking more in terms of them adding a time wall which is more money-driven than player having fun. I'm sure they would have added Psyche-like gate. The solution I proposed allows us to actually exit the instance and be bored outside instead.

Will the amps change the hallway color? Cuz sign me up.

Weve gone from “amplifiers were to help weaker groups get RP” to “they are literally mandatory if you want RP”.

I appreciate everyone who corrected my numbers, but you were actually skewing things further in favour of amps are mandatory.

Using amps to fail at the absolute bare minimum thresholds nets a better RP/segment than a group having a 100% win rate without amps. The newb crutch (amps) shouldnt be offering this kinda RoI.

Intentionally in reference to the way which amplifiers calculate bonus RP, in response to the suggestion that amps are working as intended by giving chunks of full credit vs an actual x3-9 multiplier. RP on "loss"/time-out was always a thing even before amps were in the game.

I agree with the description of the way they intended for players to engage, taking advantage of higher/lower vengeances within the capability of the group to aim for a win. It's clear there was a lot of thought put into Odyssey, its longevity, job inclusivity, scale of difficulty and so on. With all that why then would they implement an item that goes on to discourage the very things Odyssey was meant to highlight? If mog amps gave a straight x3/x9 multiplier to RP earned based on damage dealt it would align with the overall theme and engagement and we wouldn't be talking about 5% minimal effort RP farming.


That's what I been trying to say for the past two pages, it feels a lot like the people who think amps are working as intended have very little idea about how amps are actually working.

I get what you're saying, and I can't disagree with you.
But you're missing the whole picture here, three aspects in particular.
Please allow me to further elaborate.


Aspect 1 - Difficulty

Aspect 2 - Personal needs

Aspect 3 - Psychological Constraint

Some of these issues couldn't have been solved. It's what you get for creating an event that, on its highest difficulty, purposedly targets a very small minority of players, raising the challenge to the highest it has ever been in FFXI history.

They could've lessened these problems by creating a special "free" entry KI that allows you to help other people but you get absolutely nothing in return. Not at launch of course, but X months after release, why not? It would've surely have helped the situation.

But SE refused to do so, and in light of this can we blame people who made large use of the >5% strat?
In my opinion no, we can't.