Random Politics & Religion #28: The Last One

I feel like we are going to be going around in circles unless you can specify what a government would have to do to warrant an armed civil uprising. You don't think they would use chemical weapons because you are assuming a radical govt. would behave in the same way they do now? Then they wouldn't be a radical govt. and wouldn't warrant armed uprising.

If other contries got involved, we get back to the point of civilians getting in the way of operations and distupting the people with the correct tools for the job. UN forces want to destroy a munitions site > friendly civilians in the area firing pea shooters at the base > operation aborted.

I’m not too worried about the government, they can’t do ***. my concern is YOU *** in a dire situation. all it would take would be semitrucks not running for 6 days and all of you would be willing to kill your grandma for a hot pocket. it’s not far fetched in the least. a massive solar flare, an asteroid, or hell even too brutal of a blizzard and the facade of safety would fade away in a moment.

I DON’T LIKE HUMANS.

I’ve seen us at our worst.

Mosin wins the day.

Somewhere around June or so I decided Trump winning wasn't the tragedy we all thought it would be. Hell, in a lot of ways it's a boon because it helps us more easily identify some of the worst members of our society for future reference.

I was definitely concerned about some stuff with a GOP-dominated government then I realized that they're just as bad as the Dems in this regard. Give them total control...and they'll turn around and ***on themselves.

Right now I'm actually amused because so many of them are trying to balance the need for their voters vs. their donors demands and everyone is getting pissed at them.

They go hand-in-hand.

It's why every single military force -- from the U.S. Army all the way down to a handful of zealots in a cave in Bumfuckistan -- recruits late-teen men. They're the most likely to be swayed by ideology and they're the most aggressive.

So you recruit heavily where you can find people who have already been raised to be ideological and dedicated.

I want to be clear, however, that I am not criticizing this practice. It is necessary if you want to maintain a volunteer army and not rely on methods that some of our allies do where everyone is required to serve in the military.

A valid point in this discussion.

I tend to forget this fact sometimes as the Army is the least-represented of branches in my friends and family.

It's a lot more complicated then that, recruiters aren't preying on poor people, they don't particularly want poor people, they want young middle class recruits with university degree's. If the military wanted just poor people they wouldn't have a high school diploma or GED as a basic requirement for entry along with the higher starting grades for those with higher education (4yr degree starts you at E4 SPC vs high school graduate at E1 PVT).

What your seeing is that the things the US military offers are particularly attractive to individuals without many resources. The military largely doesn't care about your past, though some things require waivers and more paperwork then others, or your economic stratum. Recruiters are pushed to put names on books and therefor don't really give a damn about race, ethnicity or nationality, they just want people to sign the line that is dotted. The US Army provides 80~100% college tuition assistance, meaning they will pay for any classes you want while on duty. Furthermore they offer the GI Bill (which I still haven't used) which is a lot of money and support for university ~after~ the enlistment is finished. Then there is the Army College Fund, which is another bag of money up to 50K per recruit offered for those willing to join shortage MOS's. They will take you in, train you in a skill set, pay you, provide food and shelter for you and your family, and provide free medical care for you and your family.

Now looking at that pile of incentives, who does that work the best for? The guy with a degree in business and a promising career or the HS graduate from a poor neighborhood looking for a way out of said neighborhood? A guy student wants to go to university but their parents can't afford to send them and thus their only fall back is student loans or join the military. It's not hard to see which one provides a larger incentive.

You spend too much time on FFXIAH then !

As a former NCO (Non Commissioned Officer) I can say with absolute certainty you don't know what the *** your talking about. I've actually had soldiers under my care including junior NCOs, I've actually been in leadership positions, I've actually mentored and trained soldiers, and I've actually disciplined soldiers.

The US Military doesn't want young aggressive ideologically driven males, Jesus Christ those are a nightmare and a recipe for disaster. What you just described are gang members which are specifically prohibited, in order to join they would need to swear off their gang affiliation and have any gang identifying tattoos removed.

Here is a hint, most service members are part of whats known as CSS (Combat Service Support), not actual CA (Combat Arms) or CS (Combat Support). The only time they would ever see combat is in a defensive operation, they aren't kicking in doors and conducting raids, only transporting supplies, providing medical support or conducting logistic activities.

The US military is shaped like a spear,

<=------

Notice the sharp dangerous part of the spear is quite small relative to the rest of it. Yet without the rest of it lending support that sharp dangerous part isn't very useful. CS and CSS are the haft, they provide support and direction for the spear which is the CA folks. For every CA person you have a dozen CS and CSS people enabling them to be many times more lethal then they would otherwise be.

You know what happens if you put young ideologically driven aggressive males into that situation? You get everyone dead real fast. All you ignorant *** wits need to realize when your an ignorant *** wit and not try to be an expert on something you know nothing on.

Pretty much all of this. Factor in that when it comes to more affluent/better educated young men and women from better-off families also have the opportunity/better chance to go to the academies. One branch of my family has basically a lineage of going to Annapolis. Grandfather, father, now current-generation brother and sister, and the other daughter is a CO despite not having gone to the Academy. It's technically possible for anyone with the drive and know-how to go to the Academies, but it takes seriously planning and at least a couple of connections that many children of poor families simply don't have access to.

Realistically speaking I *** up. I had all the connections to go to Annapolis but I didn't think about it as an option until far too late. You really need to know from your freshmen year of H.S. what you're shooting for and focus on it.

Personal attacks aside, you're talking operational.

I'm talking from the top down. You need people willing to die for ideals. Your pretending I know nothing at all to stroke your ego aside, I respect your experiences, but I'm not talking about your experiences. I'm talking the over-arching, from-the-top-down stuff.

That's how ISIS gets young men to go in as suicide bombers. That's how we get people to join special forces. It's the same base concept.

If you want to defend an ideal in a militaristic world, you need people willing to die for your ideal and perform very uncomfortable acts for your ideals.

These incentives fill the rank-and-file, but the point of that spearhead needs those people. I have some of those people as friends. Please stop thinking you're the only one with any experiences.

Also for you idiots who think solders come from a barracks that you click to build and are a cheap commodity, stop playing strategy games and thinking they are anywhere near real life, and realize that Hollywood is horribly inaccuracy with their representation of the Military. The costs of training one soldier through BCT (Basic Combat Training) is ~70K, then there is the additional cost of AIT (Advanced Individual Training) with varies based on length and of civilian staff needed. OSUT (One Station Unit Training) is cheaper because the trainees stay in one location, though much of that reduction is ate up with the amount of expended ordnance CA trainees go through. Signal and Intel MOS's are very expensive because of the length of those schools and the sheer number of civilian experts they need to have for all the classes, same with medical. Support is usually on the cheap end, except the NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) and Ordnance people.

Now you got a fresh private who doesn't know ***about real operations but is at least trained enough not to kill themselves (hopefully). They spend a few years being trained further at their first duty station and eventually might get a chance to go to a leadership school, which is even more money. Now those CA folks you thought were cheap, yeah those *** go on to learn how to jump out of airplanes (Air Borne), rappel out of helicopters (Air Assault), construct and set charges to blow structures up (Sappers), survive in the wilderness (SAEDA) or maybe just be a general bad *** (Rangers / ect..). And that's without going into the obscene costs for SpecOps. By the end of their first term, a four year enlisted soldier will have had more money put into them then what a university degree costs.

This is why the Military really doesn't like to lose soldiers, a modern Army is expensive to equip and even more expensive to train. Someone dieing needlessly is a large waste of resources, further you can't just hire an experienced NCO, WO or CO, you need to train them from the ground up and that takes a long time to do.

Your talking out your *** based on war storied your hear from other people.

The moment you said


You destroyed all credibility.

You absolutely DO NOT WANT THOSE PEOPLE. They are stupid, take risks and end up getting your entire squad killed. You need cool even headed people who think through situations and the repercussions of their actions. ***happens fast and one person doing something stupid will get everyone killed.

All that other "top down / over arching" *** was just cover for "I don't actually have any relative experience of knowledge but still want to sound smart".

See, good info and points are shared, things start looking up for a second, and then:



Almost had a grown up exchange. Maybe next time?

I think arguing over who is irrelevant on an irrelevant hack website is beyond pointless but please continue.

Big deal I"m pretty sure 90% of the forum has never heard of you try again son !

*woosh*

Says the self-proclaimed expert on every *** thing under the sun who goes digging for big words to try to make people feel dumb.

Go play big fish in a small pond somewhere else already.

Ramyrez for the good of the country take a bite out of crime already !

For someone who gets so triggered by people telling him his experiences may be limited, you're awfully quick to tell other people their experiences are irrelevant.

Sorry chief. I'm going to go with the 20+ friends/family -- in whose numbers are counted actual people I'm referring to here -- over you.

but there is a possibility that he might actually be Chet from weird science...

Do you even know how SpecOps recruiting works?

Occasionally they can get someone off the street to sign up with the SpecOps option, but it's an option and they normally fail the qualification course and default to a standard 11B (infantryman). Most recruiting happens from active duty soldiers, they have a team that goes from base to base and does a class on what it means to be SF and what the process is like, including the ridiculous fail rates. They market it as an exciting life where you get to work in small intimate teams with a flatter command structure and far less military ***. They target the excitement, action and change of leadership style. Their prime recruiting target is young E5 and E6's (SGT / SSG) who are past their first enlistment and have an exemplary military record. They want people who are cool headed, experienced, who's bodies are still healthy and want a change of pace or atmosphere.

Ideologues are not wanted, they just end up getting everyone on their team killed. That's not an issue for cheap expendable recruits in bum-***, it's a huge issue for a modern professional military.

clam down bro...

You were wrong, not just wrong but dead wrong. Like Hollywood *** wrong. Nothing you said had any resemblance to actual real life. Now everyone knows it.

No.

Personal peeve is dumb ***'s who don't know jack ***pretending they actually know how the US Military works. Then going on to tell other people, one of which is an experienced veteran, what they "know" about the US Military. That ***is disrespectful to everyone who's served and needs stomped down on hard with zero mercy. There is an entire culture and way of life that *** just took a ***on by perpetuating Hollywood stereotypes.