Science Vs Science Fiction

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Science vs Science Fiction
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 19:37:18
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Josiahkf said: »
gravity exists between any two objects that have mass, with or without taking into account something's magnetic properties.

we have records of magnets losing their strength all the time, in our electromagnets.
That's not anything remotely the size of a planet though. If gravity existed between two objects w/o magnetism then you and I if floating in deep space would be pulled together. You sure that's the case? Ive never heard of such a thing.
Also the sun itself has gravitational pull yet everything tells us that combustion pushes away and does not pull together objects. If the sun was not magnetic wouldnt that give reason to believe that it would have only a gravitational push and zero pull whatsoever? That tells me that magnetics is the cause. While gravitional pull is the effect of such existence. Which is so powerful that it's capable of turning the effects, from combustion, of what a star should be doing backwards. Such leads me to believe that magnetics and not combustion nor gravity is the by far the most powerful source of the whole universe.

I would be shocked if scientists confirmed that Black Holes were anything but a high concentration of magnetic energy.
 
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 21:08:45
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Josiahkf said: »
Yeah it's been a proven fact. Even objects as small as me and you have gravity that pull us towards each other when we're close. It's just a very weak force.

Our planet's core happens to be magnetic and we have an ozone layer because if it, but it's the earth's mass that creates it's gravity.
I'll try looking such up. Unless ya can find such info for me.

The only gravity I believe in is magnetic. I could take magnets the size of a coffee table spread a few feet apart and place a grasshopper there. I cannot imagine that the grasshopper would be capable of jumping as high as usual due to the pulling between the two magnets.

Knowing that all the planets, stars and moons are all magnetized themselves makes alot more sense to me than mass = gravitational pull. Not even the ocean behaves like such w/o currents.
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By Kodaijin 2016-09-28 21:32:29
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Lots of stuff to correct here.
First gravity is not the same as magnetism. Yes, earth and the planets have a magnetic field, but that is generated by the planets' rotating core. The Earths magnetic field is weaker than a refrigerator magnet. linky

Mars is a "dead" planet because its core cooled and it has stopped rotating (all theoretical since we cant actually go to the core of any planet but we do know that its magnetic field is insanely week) Mars is not generating a strong enough magnetic field to shield it from the Solar wind. the sun blew away mars' atmosphere. Jupiter's Magnetic field is absolutely huge. but that doesnt mean the planet is magnetic. An objects Mass is what determines its gravity. A Blackhole the size of a golf ball would have the same gravity as the planet earth due to the mass. (same amount of mass... the 1 is indescribably compact/dense) The mass/gravity of an object bends space time around it.

Also we will never fall into the sun unless the speed of our orbit changes or a massive object enters our solar system and changes our orbit. We are balanced in a way between gravity of the sun and the centrifugal force of the rotation of our orbit.
Fun video for the real way we orbit the sun: Link to video

Planets are formed from an accretion disk. You can look that up yourself.

The 4th dimension (time) is linear. we are technically traveling in the 4th dimension now as we experience time. the 5th dimension is being able to go back and forward in time. The 6th dimension is multiple timelines and being able to go inbetween them (think: back to the future movies is 6th dimensional travel). I'll stop there because the 7th 8th 9th and 10th dimensions getting more complicated.

I'm going to stop there for now.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-09-28 21:41:56
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Siren.Akson said: »
Josiahkf said: »
Yeah it's been a proven fact. Even objects as small as me and you have gravity that pull us towards each other when we're close. It's just a very weak force.

Our planet's core happens to be magnetic and we have an ozone layer because if it, but it's the earth's mass that creates it's gravity.
I'll try looking such up. Unless ya can find such info for me.

The only gravity I believe in is magnetic. I could take magnets the size of a coffee table spread a few feet apart and place a grasshopper there. I cannot imagine that the grasshopper would be capable of jumping as high as usual due to the pulling between the two magnets....
Place your grasshopper between those two big magnets and he won't be able to jump at all. He will become a thin film on the faces of both magnets after they slam together.

Do keep your fingers out of the way while preforming this experiment.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 21:46:57
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Just going to take bits and pieces
Kodaijin said: »
The Earths magnetic field is weaker than a refrigerator magnet. linky
That link does not claim anything of the sort
Kodaijin said: »
Also we will never fall into the sun unless the speed of our orbit changes or a massive object enters our solar system and changes our orbit. We are balanced in a way between gravity of the sun and the centrifugal force of the rotation of our orbit.
I was wrong. The Earth is moving further away from the sun. While the Moon is doing the same to the Earth.
I was certain scientists had claimed otherwise.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17228-why-is-the-earth-moving-away-from-the-sun/
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 21:52:15
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Josiahkf said: »
Yeah it's been a proven fact. Even objects as small as me and you have gravity that pull us towards each other when we're close. It's just a very weak force.

Our planet's core happens to be magnetic and we have an ozone layer because if it, but it's the earth's mass that creates it's gravity.
I'll try looking such up. Unless ya can find such info for me.

The only gravity I believe in is magnetic. I could take magnets the size of a coffee table spread a few feet apart and place a grasshopper there. I cannot imagine that the grasshopper would be capable of jumping as high as usual due to the pulling between the two magnets....
Place your grasshopper between those two big magnets and he won't be able to jump at all. He will become a thin film on the faces of both magnets after they slam together.

Do keep your fingers out of the way while preforming this experiment.
Yes, magnetic propulsion is so insignificant that sooner or later we will be riding such technology into deep space.
EDIT: LMFAO... but it makes SO much SENSE!! LoL
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By Kodaijin 2016-09-28 21:59:07
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Oh and speed...
we cannot travel at the speed of light using propulsion. The physics are a little too complex to explain on an FFXI board. The fastest we could theoretically move is about 25% the speed of light and that is using Antimatter. This would let us get to the closest star in ~28 years. Due to cost to produce and the volatility of that substance, we wont ever use that.
We will likely use fusion (the process by which the stars generate their power) and that will, if my memory is correct, put us at about 10% the speed of light. That would take us over 40 years to reach the nearest star. (this is all off memory. too tired to do the calculation at the moment)

The only way to approach the speed of light would be to use gravity to move us. If we are not propelling ourselves but falling towards a singularity that is moving in the direction we want to go,(because we create it) we could theoretically never stop accelerating but then of course our mass would be all screwy and we would die because physics and biology.

Next option... worm holes. See the films interstellar or event horizon for the best explanation of that...
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By Kodaijin 2016-09-28 22:04:34
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Siren.Akson said: »
Just going to take bits and pieces
Kodaijin said: »
The Earths magnetic field is weaker than a refrigerator magnet. linky
That link does not claim anything of the sort
Yes, It does. If you actually read it:
The intensity of the field is often measured in gauss (G), but is generally reported in nanoteslas (nT), with 1 G = 100,000 nT. The field ranges between approximately 25,000 and 65,000 nT (0.25–0.65 G). By comparison, a strong refrigerator magnet has a field of about 100 gauss (0.010 T).

Or to translate:
Fridge Magnet = 100G
Earth = .25-.65G
 
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By Kodaijin 2016-09-28 22:11:01
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eslim said: »
it took voyager 1 ~40 years to exit our solar system. if u wanna lightspeed that, it would be less than a second, the magnetic propulsion stuff:

1) what is to and from

2) how a linear exist

3) etc

u can go to and from places per say (logically thinking: lightspeed is mind and eye on a GANGSTA *** PLASMA PROJECTION BAAAAAA)- but once an orbit travels at the speed of light all the while the moon can't, then the voyager 1 will come back big as fuk and crash into earth cuz it can't either; while the moon orbits earth until dinosaurs again.. or a black hole, or we recreate a polarity that can't change.

which means: a thin dice in-between space with oxygen (cuz it can't exist there or something), take ur shirt off; it'll help.

what the **** did I just read?
and No lightspeed doesnt take less than a second to exit the solar system. Light takes 5.3 hours to reach pluto and pluto isnt even close to the edge of the solar system.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 22:41:28
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Kodaijin said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Just going to take bits and pieces
Kodaijin said: »
The Earths magnetic field is weaker than a refrigerator magnet. linky
That link does not claim anything of the sort
Yes, It does. If you actually read it:
The intensity of the field is often measured in gauss (G), but is generally reported in nanoteslas (nT), with 1 G = 100,000 nT. The field ranges between approximately 25,000 and 65,000 nT (0.25–0.65 G). By comparison, a strong refrigerator magnet has a field of about 100 gauss (0.010 T).

Or to translate:
Fridge Magnet = 100G
Earth = .25-.65G
Honestly I dont believe any of this cuz what I read defies logic w/ zero proof whatsoever
https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=225
Quote:
Gravity and magnetism are not the same thing. In fact, they are completely separate forces. Gravity is a force that acts between any two objects with mass. No matter what they are made of, both objects get pulled towards each other just because they have mass.
If mass was such a factor then the Blue Whale would be a living breathing ultra-magnet. If we are claiming Mass vs Size, like a Blue Whale to Earth. Such a mass size comparison of the Blue Whale should carry some sort of gravitational pull vs... something ...microscopic parasite possibly? Since when has anyone ever tested let alone claimed such as Fact?
If Magnetic power is as minimal as they claim. Then why do scientists think they could ever use such to travel deep space w/? How could they launch from Earth using such primitive ideas when the Earth is as magnetic as a Fridge Magnet? Then travel the Galaxy on such propulsion?...

None of this information adds up. Whatsoever. The very understanding and definition of Gravity itself is a blatant false fact
 
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By 2016-09-28 22:50:57
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 23:10:22
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Siren.Akson said: »
Electromagnetic Propulsion
Quote:
For decades, the only means of space travel have been rocket engines that run off of chemical propulsion. Now, at the beginning of the 21st century, aerospace engineers are devising innovative ways to take us to the stars, including light propulsion, nuclear-fusion propulsion and antimatter propulsion. A new type of spacecraft that lacks any propellant is also being proposed. This type of spacecraft, which would be jolted through space by electromagnets, could take us farther than any of these other methods.
Kinda figured... no way I could be the only idiot whom has thought of such before
No Fuel? No Problem. New Technology May Make Interplanetary Travel On Electromagnetic Propulsion
The only possible way that UFOs could do as ppl claim. So do they exist. Are they real? LoL
Our own current design for Space Travel just happens to look as halfass backwards reverse engineered as it sounds.
We're doing it all wrong....
Everything I stated stands w/ Scientists at least acknowledging such. While apparently not all "science" agrees...
 Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2016-09-28 23:38:22
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Wow this thread is really getting convoluted. I think there is some confusion over what constitutes an attractive/repellent fundamental force...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

...four fundamental forces in the Standard Model, with attempts made to create a Grand Unified Theory/Theory of Everything to accommodate Gravitation, Electromagnetic, and Strong and Weak Forces (fields) together into one model.

Gravitational fields and magnetic fields are essentially separate forces, generated by differing aspects of planetary bodies as per what Kodaijin mentioned (i.e. spinning iron cores, versus mass of bodies.) Don't confuse them just because they both have the ability to attract...Strong Force and Weak Force (atomic forces) attract also, but work on different principles as well. /ICP meme off :p

The EM Drives that Akson brought up in the links don't run on Earth's magnetic core...they are the type of EM drives that power Linear Motors (i.e. monorail EM drives, mass drivers, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor

These type of classic mass driver linear EM are what the scientists are proposing as launch methods for future space vehicles (and of course, future space weapons of mass destruction) as they consume less energy on the whole, and are limited simply by atmospheric friction.
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-28 23:53:34
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Fenrir.Schutz said: »
The EM Drives that Akson brought up in the links don't run on Earth's magnetic core...they are the type of EM drives that power Linear Motors (i.e. monorail EM drives, mass drivers, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor

These type of classic mass driver linear EM are what the scientists are proposing as launch methods for future space vehicles (and of course, future space weapons of mass destruction) as they consume less energy on the whole, and are limited simply by atmospheric friction.
That thread I posted didnt speak of any such thing that you posted. How did you equate one w/ the other? Btw I wasnt insinuating such would run on Earth's magnetic core. I was claiming that if everything, including Earth, is magnetic then shouldnt we be able to use such? My thoughts on how it might be able to work might be off but the whole concept of ElectroMagnetic propulsion is a very big deal.
 Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2016-09-29 00:02:40
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Siren.Akson said: »
Fenrir.Schutz said: »
The EM Drives that Akson brought up in the links don't run on Earth's magnetic core...they are the type of EM drives that power Linear Motors (i.e. monorail EM drives, mass drivers, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor

These type of classic mass driver linear EM are what the scientists are proposing as launch methods for future space vehicles (and of course, future space weapons of mass destruction) as they consume less energy on the whole, and are limited simply by atmospheric friction.
That thread I posted didnt speak of any such thing that you posted. How did you equate one w/ the other? Btw I wasnt insinuating such would run on Earth's magnetic core. I was claiming that if everything, including Earth, is magnetic then shouldnt we be able to use such? My thoughts on how it might be able to work might be off but the whole concept of ElectroMagnetic propulsion is a very big deal.

Ah, ok, I assumed you had meant it as the launch mechanism, but I suppose the article more specifically says it is RF resonant cavity thruster, I take it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF_resonant_cavity_thruster

My confusion was perhaps the supposition that all planetary bodies have a usable magnetic force that could be exerted for travel in the same way we use gravity-assist to propel objects already in motion.
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-29 00:08:42
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Fenrir.Schutz said: »
Siren.Akson said: »
Fenrir.Schutz said: »
The EM Drives that Akson brought up in the links don't run on Earth's magnetic core...they are the type of EM drives that power Linear Motors (i.e. monorail EM drives, mass drivers, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_motor

These type of classic mass driver linear EM are what the scientists are proposing as launch methods for future space vehicles (and of course, future space weapons of mass destruction) as they consume less energy on the whole, and are limited simply by atmospheric friction.
That thread I posted didnt speak of any such thing that you posted. How did you equate one w/ the other? Btw I wasnt insinuating such would run on Earth's magnetic core. I was claiming that if everything, including Earth, is magnetic then shouldnt we be able to use such? My thoughts on how it might be able to work might be off but the whole concept of ElectroMagnetic propulsion is a very big deal.

Ah, ok, I assumed you had meant it as the launch mechanism, but I suppose the article more specifically says it is RF resonant cavity thruster, I take it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF_resonant_cavity_thruster

My confusion was perhaps the supposition that all planetary bodies have a usable magnetic force that could be exerted for travel in the same way we use gravity-assist to propel objects already in motion.
Yeah.. you are right on that part. I believe such is possible. Some way. Some how. Yet Im no engineer. No scientist. Thier idea is using magnetics but in another way.
Personally I dont believe that Gravity itself is merely based on the size of the Mass of Planets alone. While the Earth is supposedly moving further away from the Sun. Some planets called Hot Jupiters defy everything we know.
- How can a Sun's combustion pull in another Planet?
- Planet to Star size Ratio is comparable to human to Human. While we do not exhibit "Gravitational Pull" whatsoever?
 
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 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-29 00:53:26
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Nasa tests 'WARP DRIVE' engine that could carry passengers to the moon in just four hours ...and may even travel faster than the speed of light
Quote:
HOW DOES AN EMDRIVE WORK?

The concept of an EmDrive engine is relatively simple. It provides thrust to a spacecraft by bouncing microwaves around in a closed container.

Solar energy provides the electricity to power the microwaves, which means that no propellant is needed.

Researchers previously believed this wouldn't work in the vacuum of space, but Nasa has allegedly shown otherwise.

The implications for this could be huge. For instance, current satellites could be half the size they are today without the need to carry fuel.

Humans could also travel further into space, generating their own propulsion on the way.
@Eslim.. I jumped to my own conclusions while Scientists were on the same magnetic path yet way different than I was imagining possible... w/e works. With zero time to read. I assumed both concepts were similar. Right? I was wrong.
 Siren.Akson
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-29 04:29:41
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Kodaijin said: »
Also we will never fall into the sun unless the speed of our orbit changes or a massive object enters our solar system and changes our orbit. We are balanced in a way between gravity of the sun and the centrifugal force of the rotation of our orbit.
Fun video for the real way we orbit the sun: Link to video
This doesnt make sense to me. The Sun is a comet shooting across the Galaxy while we orbit such on it's path? Then how do we not lose track of Astrological Constellations. Wouldnt we all be moving in seperate destinations. Everything would all fall apart and cease to exist. Also this #6 "Scientists predict that the Sun will engulf Earth".
Which sounds alot like what I thought I claimed prior until I read claims that we were falling away from the Sun.... my head is spinning

The Earth's Geomagnetic Field is extremely powerful like an invisible force field shielding us all from continuous deadly attacks from the Sun itself. Does that sound like a Fridge Magnet? Magnetic inside. GeoMagnetic Field outside.
Yet we cannot use such to Space Travel?..... Im convinced this existence is pulling on itself from both inside & outside creating Gravity as we know it.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-09-29 04:58:39
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You're a bit confused. Especially about the concept of gravity...to put it in a very banal way:
Imagine space as an elastic fabric, now place a heavy object(in this case the sun) in the middle, what you'll notice is that the fabric bends, that is gravity. Now throw on the fabric like you would marbles smaller objects(planets) they will bend the fabric too, but less and also they will start rotating around the heavier object due to that bending(gravity); depending on the force of their rotation around the sun they will either 1. slowly rotate in a spiral towards the star and eventually collapse in it 2. slowly rotate further from it.

Mind you this is a very simplicistic way of putting it, but I think it might help forming a tangible image.
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By Siren.Akson 2016-09-29 05:23:33
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You're a bit confused. Especially about the concept of gravity...to put it in a very banal way:
Imagine space as an elastic fabric, now place a heavy object(in this case the sun) in the middle, what you'll notice is that the fabric bends, that is gravity. Now throw on the fabric like you would marbles smaller objects(planets) they will bend the fabric too, but less and also they will start rotating around the heavier object due to that bending(gravity); depending on the force of their rotation around the sun they will either 1. slowly rotate in a spiral towards the star and eventually collapse in it 2. slowly rotate further from it.

Mind you this is a very simplicistic way of putting it, but I think it might help forming a tangible image.
Yeah I hear ya. Just being a planet. The earth has an automatic suction effect on anything w/in it's atmosphere. Even though we know how magnetism can pull creating the same exact effect. It is obviously not due to such. We can easily test and prove such Magnetic Pull is a reality of existence. While we cannot test nor prove that Gravity itself exists on it's own w/o the Geomagnetic Field to begin w/. Which makes the whole definition and reasons behind Gravity a Hypothesis, at best, in a very banal sort of way. You are correct. A flat Earth.
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By Kodaijin 2016-09-29 08:27:52
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Siren.Akson said: »
Kodaijin said: »
Also we will never fall into the sun unless the speed of our orbit changes or a massive object enters our solar system and changes our orbit. We are balanced in a way between gravity of the sun and the centrifugal force of the rotation of our orbit.
Fun video for the real way we orbit the sun: Link to video
This doesnt make sense to me. The Sun is a comet shooting across the Galaxy while we orbit such on it's path? Then how do we not lose track of Astrological Constellations. Wouldnt we all be moving in seperate destinations. Everything would all fall apart and cease to exist. Also this #6 "Scientists predict that the Sun will engulf Earth".
Which sounds alot like what I thought I claimed prior until I read claims that we were falling away from the Sun.... my head is spinning


The Earth's Geomagnetic Field is extremely powerful like an invisible force field shielding us all from continuous deadly attacks from the Sun itself. Does that sound like a Fridge Magnet? Magnetic inside. GeoMagnetic Field outside.
Yet we cannot use such to Space Travel?..... Im convinced this existence is pulling on itself from both inside & outside creating Gravity as we know it.

Dont be insulted, but a lot of what you are saying is so far from correct that it makes it difficult to figure out where to even start with a reply.
-Gravity is not the same thing as magnetism.
-The Earths gravity affects objects way further out than its atmosphere.
-The sun is not like a comet. the sun is a star and a comet is a chunk of rock and ice and other stuff that falls towards/orbits the sun.
- Yes the comment about the earths magnetic field vs the fridge magnet is correct. You can literally find this information on dozens of science backed web pages if you look.
- Yes, the sun will eventually destroy earth. This is very well known and not weird at all. Our sun will eventually become a Red giant and destroy Mercury and venus for sure. It will for sure kill everything that is left on earth and could engulf earth as well. But this is all billions of years in the future. We will have killed ourselves, been killed by an E.L.E or left the planet by then.
- Orbits and gravity work like this. if you throw a ball up in the air, it will fall back to earth. If you can throw the ball high enough... say into Orbit... then by the time the ball falls back to earth, the earth has moved and the ball will constantly be "falling" back to earth and constantly be missing earth. If the orbit is decaying then it will eventually fall back to earth and if its accelerating then it will eventually fly away from earth. In order to escape Earths gravity(a.k.a Escape velocity), you will need to travel at just over 25,000mph or just over 40,200 kph. If you maintain this speed you will be able to run away from the planet. The escape velocity for each celestial object is different. Its pretty low for mars and the moon and its infinite for black holes.
- Speaking of blackholes, they have the most gravity of any object anywhere and yet they are not the most magnetic object. Magnetars are crazy magnetic... you should check those out.

Did you really say a flat earth and that we cant prove gravity? I should have stopped responding after the first post but this subject matter is one of my favorites so I got lured into it. I'll stop now. Enjoy your theories.

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 Bismarck.Laurelli
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2016-09-29 09:39:01
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No
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-09-29 09:42:59
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Kodaijin said: »
Play it again Sam....
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