Random Politics & Religion #07
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Random Politics & Religion #07
Yeah, but that's information gained after the fact. You don't get to arrest people on baseless assumptions.
take that up with the department of justice who takes their orders from the white house and the president's directives.
There's no longer a need for the "Reasonable suspicion" its not the name of the game now especially under the current State of Emergency we are still under as a Nation do to the false dichotomy of Terrorism. When clearly we are seeing the true definition being the government. Which majority of everyone on this forum thinks Governments can do no wrong especially not the US government not these two political parties of course not them. If you want to help stop all these terrible calls to arrest people on a whim you should vote out democrats and republicans. Both approved of the continuation of the Patriot act that ripped the Constitution to shreds. Today in the United States you are Guilty until proven innocent. That's not how this has always been because we use to govern under this important document called the Constitution. Today in the United States police no longer need a warrant to search you or your property the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in favor to expand the ability of law enforcement to search without warrants. That's not how this has always been because we use to govern under this important document called the Constitution. The deflection of blame is right in front of your eyes. The police are not the enemy. They get their orders from the Democrats and Republicans sitting in your State Capitals and federally from Washington DC. Clearly these vigilantes are pointing their guns at the wrong people. Siren.Lordgrim said: » Ragnarok.Raenil said: » Dunno. The owner of the store said he was well known for it. And that the gun never left his pocket. Nor was it ever reached for. The NRA lobbies hard for restoring the 2ed rights of felons once they are out of probation. Asura.Saevel said: » All the back and forth is why an unbiased investigation needs to happen every time a police officer kills someone. The issue is that the Police department themselves can not be trusted to conduct the investigation and fellow Police officers will lie and destroy video evidence to protect their own. So expect there to be more frequent retaliation killings and expect them to escalate. This already happens frequently, and each time that the Feds or whatever don't side with the 'persecuted', it's deemed that they were biased. Another thing we have to get serious about is these cases of malfunctioning body cameras. The officer or department (or both) must be liable every time a cop is supposed to have one and doesn't or it isn't functioning or what-have-you. It's a shame because hardware, especially abused-hardware, does fail from time to time but it always seems these have failed at the most convenient times. Valefor.Omnys said: » Asura.Saevel said: » All the back and forth is why an unbiased investigation needs to happen every time a police officer kills someone. The issue is that the Police department themselves can not be trusted to conduct the investigation and fellow Police officers will lie and destroy video evidence to protect their own. So expect there to be more frequent retaliation killings and expect them to escalate. This already happens frequently, and each time that the Feds or whatever don't side with the 'persecuted', it's deemed that they were biased. Another thing we have to get serious about is these cases of malfunctioning body cameras. The officer or department (or both) must be liable every time a cop is supposed to have one and doesn't or it isn't functioning or what-have-you. It's a shame because hardware, especially abused-hardware, does fail from time to time but it always seems these have failed at the most convenient times. What *** planet do you live on... The FBI only investigate after they've been directed to and that only happens AFTER there is a huge political uproar involving riots and assassinated police officers. Otherwise they won't get involved because the Police Department won't be requesting that they get involved. Those body camera's aren't randomly "malfunctioning", the Officers are deliberately smacking them to prevent them from recording evidence or the contents of the micro SD card are being wiped during evidence collection. The case of the homeless man on the mountain, the only video recovered was from the officer in the back, the other two mysteriously didn't have anything recoverable. This is extremely common, a Police Officer shoots someone and suddenly their camera's memory is corrupt... Either way, get your facts straight. Holy ***dude.
Sometimes, and increasinglyg more common, the "immediate" reaction is to get the FBI involved (matter of hours). Still, travel time, etc are a factor. Even if the law required the FBI immediately be involved, these things would be in police custody for the temporary amount of time that things took to coordinate. Also, get some sleep or something because this-- Quote: Another thing we have to get serious about is these cases of malfunctioning body cameras. The officer or department (or both) must be liable every time a cop is supposed to have one and doesn't or it isn't functioning or what-have-you. It's a shame because hardware, especially abused-hardware, does fail from time to time but it always seems these have failed at the most convenient times. --was laced with sarcasm. It always seems like "Gee golly gosh Mr. Agent/Judge/Reporter, somebody forgot to charge the cameras/they were defective/accidentally left. What I'm saying is two things.. 1) Someone needs to be held liable that cameras weren't used even in the smallest of incidents and in the largest because the person-to-person interaction that they record--better than a dash cam--is key to setting so many disputing accounts, whether the cop or victim is right. 2) It is a shame because occasionally ***does actually malfunction but the goto excuse is so easy that it allows cops to destroy evidence. Valefor.Omnys said: » Sometimes, and increasinglyg more common, the "immediate" reaction is to get the FBI involved (matter of hours). Still, travel time, etc are a factor. Even if the law required the FBI immediately be involved, these things would be in police custody for the temporary amount of time that things took to coordinate. Only if there is a huge media outcry. Also you need to be careful because the FBI are frequently investigating "Rights Violation" and not the actual murder itself. This means the FBI are seeing if the Police Officers violated the dead persons constitutional rights, and not if the kill was justified. It's seems weird but that's why the FBI walk away and be like "we didn't find anything". Doesn't mean the Police didn't murder the victim, just means there is no evidence the Police didn't violate their constitutional rights. Lots of white people get shot by Police every day, the FBI doesn't get called in and the Police cover it up and move on. About the guy in Louisiana.
Summary of Offenses The documents in Sterling’s Baton Rouge court file show Sterling was accused of these offenses (some are convictions, some only arrests, some were dismissed and a few are traffic matters. The dates represent date of offense): Simple battery (dismissed) (Nov. 24, 1996) Simple battery – dismissed (Oct. 28, 1997) Simple burglary of inhabited dwelling (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant Felony theft (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant Simple burglary (amended to illegal possession of stolen things – guilty plea) (May 24, 2005) Aggravated battery (amended to simple battery – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006) Simple criminal damage to property – guilty plea (March 6, 2006) Unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling (amended to disturbing the peace – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006) Expired driver’s license (March 21, 2008) Driver’s license issue (hard to read document) (2008) Domestic abuse battery – pleaded guilty (March 31, 2008) Illegal carrying weapons with controlled dangerous substance – pleaded guilty (May 29, 2009) Felon in possession of a firearm – dismissed (May 29, 2009) Contempt of court – (Aug. 10, 2009) – Guilty plea Fail to use seat belt (Feb. 5, 2014) Fail to renew registration (Feb. 5, 2014) Failure to comply with sex offender registration (Aug. 11, 2015) – Forfeiture Possession of a schedule 1 drug, (April4-5, 2016) – no conclusion Possession of marijuana first offense. (April 5, 2016) – no conclusion Arrest – probable cause affidavits: Trespassing (Aug. 25, 1996) Damage to property (2 counts) (Aug. 25, 1996) Criminal mischief (Aug. 25, 1996) Illegally possess weapon (Aug. 25, 1996) Aggravated burglary (Aug. 27, 1996) Public intimidation, 2 counts (April 24, 2000) Criminal damage to property (March 4, 2006) Simple robbery (March 4, 2006) Theft under $500 (March 4, 2006) Possession of marijuana (March 4, 2006) Misrepresentation during booking (March 4, 2006) Simple battery (March 4, 2006) Aggravated burglary (March 4, 2006) Resisting an officer by force (May 29, 2009) Possession marijuana (May 29, 2009) Possess stolen things (May 29, 2009) Possess firearm with drugs (May 29, 2009) Simple assault (May 29, 2009) Offense too illegible to read in the record (May 29, 2009)   Knowing that he is a pedofile that knocked up a 14 year old, I don't feel so bad for the guy. http://www.snopes.com/alton-sterling-arrest-record/ http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/08/alton-sterling-when-a-sex-offender-gets Quote: According to the Louisiana Department of Corrections, Sterling was convicted in 2000 for a crime against a minor that led him to spend about four years in prison and be registered as a sex offender. A court document reviewed by Reuters showed that he was accused of having sex with a 14-year-old girl and impregnating her when he was 20. Screw that guy, good riddance.
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Doesn't justify murdering him. Does Louisiana have the death penalty?
I'm not at all going to miss the guy. He doesn't sound like a good guy and never has, but previous criminal isn't really a factor here.
Asura.Saevel said: » Only if there is a huge media outcry. Also you need to be careful because the FBI are frequently investigating "Rights Violation" and not the actual murder itself. This means the FBI are seeing if the Police Officers violated the dead persons constitutional rights, and not if the kill was justified. It's seems weird but that's why the FBI walk away and be like "we didn't find anything". Doesn't mean the Police didn't murder the victim, just means there is no evidence the Police didn't violate their constitutional rights. Luckily actually, we're getting to the point that calling in the FBI, or at least state trooper is becoming a cautionary measure because noone wants to be perceived into not caring about black lives. I won't name names here because I don't want to instigate anything with anyone but I look at some of these cases and think "it's a shame dude died, but it sounds like he brought it on himself". Just an example: There have been cases of people using toy guns to commit crimes and liberal groups claiming "he dernt deserve to die! it was fake!" The truth is, some of these "toys"/replicas look so real that it takes holding them and feeling the material or the weight/balance to know the gun isn't real. If the perp thinks the gun is real enough to commit a crime with, it's real enough to die for. Some of these fools believe that the cop must wait to be shot at before they shoot. Shiva.Viciousss said: » Doesn't justify murdering him. Does Louisiana have the death penalty? Sure it doesn't justify murder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dmDKMgnL-k The officers were struggling for control of Sterling's right hand. Sterling's right hand was not secured by one of the officers before the shooting because he was resisting. One of the officers was trying to stop Sterling from getting his hand into his right pocket. Later in the video one of the police officer's removes a gun from Sterlings right pocket. It's not as cut and dry as "murder". http://bluelivesmatter.blue/cops-shoot-black-man-video-alton-sterling-public-outrage/ The initial call to the police mentioned that Sterling brandished a firearm and threatened the initial complainant. During the encounter Sterling is resisting arrest, and there was the reasonable suspicion that he was armed. Sterling is seen reaching for his right side pocket. At this point the officers feel as though Sterling is a threat to themselves and the public. They believed that it was possible that Sterling could cause imminent bodily injury, harm or death to officers on the scene; or bystanders. Based on this they were able to use justifiable force to stop the threat. At the start of the video a taser was deployed. This did not stop the threat, so use of force was escalated to a firearm. Once the shooting was over a weapon was recovered. Officer's suspicions that he was armed were confirmed. It's not like he was found unarmed. So tell me again how this was murder? It looks like a justifiable homicide in my opinion. So he was pinned on the ground, he was still a threat. At no point do you have to fight fair with an aggressor or ***. At :30 he had a gun pointed at his head. He had a chance to freeze and stop reaching into his pocket. A reasonable person would be like "oh ***, there is a gun pointed at me, this cop means business and I should stop!." The police tried using less than lethal means to subdue him, that did not work. SO unfortunately they had to escalate to lethal force. Also I'm hearing some people saying the gun was a fake or replica. If somebody brandishes one, they shouldn't be surprised when cops draw on them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
BB/Airsoft guns can look pretty realistic. Tm Green Gas Glock 17 Airsoft Gun   Glock 17 9mm Just saying, a reasonable person wouldn't know the difference.
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If you're going to act like the gun is real then you shouldn't be surprised when the cops do the same.
These people claiming that you shouldn't be shot for pulling a fake gun out should put themselves in front of someone doing it, then decide whether they'll wait to see if its fake or not.
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: » Just saying, a reasonable person wouldn't know the difference. From just appearance, someone who works with guns every day wouldn't know the difference except *sometimes* by the size of the hole in the barrel. Anyone whose handled an airsoft/paintbal/bb/demo replica knows how absurdly convincing these are made to look. Years ago, my nephew got an airsoft replica of a gun I happened to have and visibly I couldn't tell them apart. Valefor.Omnys said: » Fenrir.Skarwind said: » Just saying, a reasonable person wouldn't know the difference. From just appearance, someone who works with guns every day wouldn't know the difference except *sometimes* by the size of the hole in the barrel. Anyone whose handled an airsoft/paintbal/bb/demo replica knows how absurdly convincing these are made to look. Years ago, my nephew got an airsoft replica of a gun I happened to have and visibly I couldn't tell them apart. Even IDing it based on the barrel can be tough. You never know if it is a 22lr or not (there are conversion kits out there too). When someone points a gun at you, you don't ask them if you can examine it to see if it's real. And as you said, it's very difficult to tell just by sight, and that's probably not the first thing you're going to be thinking about anyway.
Yeah lol.
There was a kid several years ago, an eight grader, that took one of these to school and was aiming it other kids. Cops were called, he got in a stand-off with police and the cops shot him dead. There were the crazy cries "it was only a toy!", pretty sure Gawker was leading the charge on his one and someone commented you could tell by the hole in the barrel. Whether you can or can't, you shouldn't have to wait to a gun is pointed at your face to be able to decide whether you can defend yourself.  "Quick, what caliber is this?" And of course, for the sake of appearances, the hole at the end of the gun may be larger than the bb-barrel. You'd have to be a real idiot to think you can tell the difference between them, airsofts look so damn realistic. I can't understand people who think that.
Even if you can tell them apart based on the hole at close range you won't have the time to do it if they're pointing it at people. Just can't take the chance that it might be a toy. At a distance it's even harder to tell. My friends and I would play with airsofts as kids and we always made sure we weren't seen since they look so realistic and we didn't want people to get the wrong idea (also because you have to be 18 here) I think I remember that incident, even after the police were called he was still acting as though the gun was real instead of just throwing it down and owning up to it being a fake.
The outcome was all his own doing. Having a gun on him isn't a factor unless it was brandished. Louisianna law allows both open and concealed carry.
And he was shot when he was already pinned to the ground. They'd already deescalated the situation when they decided to execute him. That's pretty excessive. Ragnarok.Raenil said: » Having a gun on him isn't a factor unless it was brandished. Louisianna law allows both open and concealed carry. And he was shot when he was already pinned to the ground. They'd already deescalated the situation when they decided to execute him. That's pretty excessive. Open/Concealed Carry are legal. But not for somebody with a rap sheet like him. Also once you reach for a firearm in the presence of police, you are now a threat. Legal carry or not, there are some things you do not do during an investigative stop/confrontation. He was reaching for his firearm, and still could of discharged it while on the ground. His right arm was free to do so. It wasn't an execution, they shot him to stop him as a threat. Fenrir.Skarwind said: » Ragnarok.Raenil said: » Having a gun on him isn't a factor unless it was brandished. Louisianna law allows both open and concealed carry. And he was shot when he was already pinned to the ground. They'd already deescalated the situation when they decided to execute him. That's pretty excessive. Open/Concealed Carry are legal. But not for somebody with a rap sheet like him. Also once you reach for a firearm in the presence of police, you are now a threat. Legal carry or not, there are some things you do not do during an investigative stop/confrontation. He was reaching for his firearm, and still could of discharged it while on the ground. His right arm was free to do so. It wasn't an execution, they shot him to stop him as a threat. Fenrir.Skarwind said: » Ragnarok.Raenil said: » Having a gun on him isn't a factor unless it was brandished. Louisianna law allows both open and concealed carry. And he was shot when he was already pinned to the ground. They'd already deescalated the situation when they decided to execute him. That's pretty excessive. Open/Concealed Carry are legal. But not for somebody with a rap sheet like him. Also once you reach for a firearm in the presence of police, you are now a threat. Legal carry or not, there are some things you do not do during an investigative stop/confrontation. He was reaching for his firearm, and still could of discharged it while on the ground. His right arm was free to do so. It wasn't an execution, they shot him to stop him as a threat. Also I wanted to add, the whole reason the police paid him a visit in the first place, was because of brandishing. He could of just told the homeless guy to *** off without brandishing. Asura.Calatilla said: » Is there proof he reached for it? Wasn't he already on the floor when they noticed he had a gun? Did you not read the blog I linked? No, my bad. I just assumed you were talking about the guy who was shot while face down. That's what you get for skimming. Sorry
question. ~ in the alton sterling video. the officer that's in front was blocking the view of what the officer on top was doing and what sterling was doing with his right hand and if you slow down the video it looked like sterling was trying to get up. so wouldn't that be resisting arrest and has there been any more news about what actually happened?
Asura.Calatilla said: » No, my bad. I just assumed you were talking about the guy who was shot while face down. That's what you get for skimming. Sorry Well when you hear about it. You assume that it's police abuse/brutality/shitty cops. Naturally as a human being, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt. But when you start reading into things it's like "holy ***, I can see how things got ugly." At first glance his criminal history was never mentioned. Some of them are very violent offenses. Also even though the man was pinned he was trying to reach into his pocket. It's kind of a dumb and suspicious move. It's like the media always omits certain details and tries to get some kind of sensationalism going for ratings. Quote: Baton Rouge police officers were struggling on the ground with Alton Sterling when an officer put a gun to Sterling’s chest and fired. A witness caught the event on video, and it has politicians, celebrities, and the public crying foul. The outcry had become so extreme, you can expect Black Lives Matter to start destroying innocent people’s property at any time now. We hate to report on incidents before all of the facts are released, because we know first-hand that when the news media doesn’t have details then they just make up details to get ratings. However, we expect that the Alton Sterling shooting may become a major issue in the next few days and weeks, so we want you to be aware what is happening. Initial details are scarce, but Baton Rouge Police reportedly responded to a call on Tuesday morning of a man carrying a gun and threatening people in front of a convenience store. It’s not clear what happened before the video started, but next thing we know, police officers are ordering Alton Sterling to the ground. When Sterling resists, officers tackle him. On the ground, one of the police officers calls out that Sterling has a gun. The second police officer unholsters his pistol and points it at Sterling’s chest, and tells him not to move. There’s more shouting and the police officer shoots Sterling. We don’t have all of the details, so we are unable to give a definitive opinion at this time if the shooting was justified. However, while the news media paints a picture of Sterling as an innocent family man who was executed by the police for being black and selling CDs, the video actually seems to support officer’s actions. First, you have to remember why the officers were there. Sterling allegedly was threatening people while armed with a gun. At the start of the video, the camera moves around so you miss what’s going on, but you can see the police officers backing away and one officer is pointing a weapon at Sterling. Baton Rouge PD police officer points Taser at Alton Sterling Baton Rouge PD police officer points Taser at Alton Sterling Moments later, we hear what sounds like a Taser air cartridge firing. Officers yell at Starling to get on the ground as the camera faces away from the action. Then, we hear what sounds like a second Taser cartridge firing. It’s not quite clear how we got here, but each officer likely attempted to fire their Taser at Sterling. Based off of this alone, we can presume that there was probable cause to arrest Sterling and that he was actively resisting, prompting officers to deploy their Tasers. In an example of just how high the Taser failure rate is, the Tasers appeared to have no effect. Officer One then tackles Sterling, bringing him to the ground. Officer Two follows behind and they both get on top of Sterling. Sterling lands on his side, but is able to roll onto his back. We can presume that the officers were attempting to roll Sterling onto his stomach in order to handcuff Sterling. By rolling onto his back with two police officers on top of him, Sterling is clearly demonstrating that he is actively fighting the officer’s attempts to control him, and he’s doing so with some success. Officer Two then calls out that Sterling has a gun. Both officers can be seen moving for their guns, but Officer One can be seen getting his gun out, pointing it at Sterling’s chest, and telling him not to move. There’s then some shouting (can anybody understand what is said?) and Sterling is shot. There is apparently security camera and dash cam footage which has not been released yet. Both officers had body cameras, but they fell off in struggle. Critics are accusing police of a cover-up due to the body cameras falling off. Even when body cameras don’t fall off, they rarely show any usable footage once officers are hands-on. It’s also a common occurrence for body cameras to fall off; one of the most common ways to attach body cameras is with a magnet. More details are expected to be released soon on the Alton Sterling shooting, but we don’t immediately see anything to indicate that this wasn’t justified. The speculation that a taser was deployed does sound reasonable. Because you can actually hear it being deployed. Hopefully the dash cameras and any nearby security cameras are made public. If a taser was used before the actual shooting. I think it would only help establish that the police were not trying "execute/murder him" as so many people are saying. They didn't have the intent to do so. They even screamed at him to stop.
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: » Ragnarok.Raenil said: » Having a gun on him isn't a factor unless it was brandished. Louisianna law allows both open and concealed carry. And he was shot when he was already pinned to the ground. They'd already deescalated the situation when they decided to execute him. That's pretty excessive. Open/Concealed Carry are legal. But not for somebody with a rap sheet like him. Also once you reach for a firearm in the presence of police, you are now a threat. Legal carry or not, there are some things you do not do during an investigative stop/confrontation. He was reaching for his firearm, and still could of discharged it while on the ground. His right arm was free to do so. It wasn't an execution, they shot him to stop him as a threat. Whatever he did in the past? Has absolutely no place in whether the cops were in the right or not. They aren't relevant to this specific incident. That's why they were called, yes. But they still had no physical evidence to justify an attempted arrest and he was absolutely allowed, by law, to resist. The store owner said Alton never reached for his gun. That video is such low quality you can't even see his right arm. What I do see is a guy held down by two cops with a gun in his face. He had absolutely no vantage point to be a threat. The gun shots were absolutely excessive and the style was definitely an execution. I don't really understand why these guys shoot to kill instead of just in a shoulder(if not directly under threat). They are supposed to be trained with guns, there is no reason why they should aim to kill..at such a short distance too.
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