Random Politics & Religion #02
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Random Politics & Religion #02
So do you realize you are chastising him for the exact thing you are doing?
Normally an unquoted response is for the post above it.
I've noticed that around here people have problems keeping up with quoted posts.. So I guess it doesn't matter in the long run.
I disagree.
Anna Ruthven said: » I disagree. With what post, I'm confused?
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Altimaomega said: » So do you realize you are chastising him for the exact thing you are doing? No what I am really chastising him about is wasting his time writing lengthy dribble that meanders away from the point they initially attempt to make. I'll help you out: example.: That was the incorrect response to addressing the idea being expressed in the post. The idea that fiat currencies derive their value from the power of the issuing governments ability to tax is Neo-Keynesian which stems from Keynesian which stems Chartalism. You might be familiar with it as Modern Monetary Theory, it is what is practiced today. So to say taxes have jack ***to do with currency values is the same as declaring that you don't have a grasp of macroeconomics. gonna have to hit quote to see its content, or use logic to figure out is Saevels last post... spoilers are still broken, apparently.
Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » gonna have to hit quote to see its content, or use logic to figure out is Saevels last post... spoilers are still broken, apparently. Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » The idea that fiat currencies derive their value from the power of the issuing governments ability to tax So is gold cheaper or more expensive in other countries? Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » The idea that fiat currencies derive their value from the power of the issuing governments ability to tax is Neo-Keynesian which stems from Keynesian which stems Chartalism. No. A governments ability to tax existed long before floating currencies existed. Long before the ability to many paper existed. A government can tax without needing a floating currency. They are two completely separate things. And before government issued paper currency you had letters of credit and transferable bank notes. Those notes would sometimes be sold for less then their stated value under the condition that they were only redeemable at a future date, aka bonds before we had bonds. Floating currencies have value because they are a common currency used in place of barter. Their value is either protected by the government doing the issuing or some built in mechanism (bitcoin / lite-coin). The existence of non-government floating currencies disproves your previous statement. Altimaomega said: » So is gold cheaper or more expensive in other countries? Gold, like everything else sold on an open market, has the value someone else is wiling to pay for it. I deal in a lot of foreign currency exchanges due to where I live and having to travel around. The exchange rates are always going to be based on the amount of that currency available in circulation. In 2008 when the US economy crashed, USD became quite very rare on the open market and the exchange rate went up over 40% in a matter of months. My dollars were suddenly worth a helluva lot more on the open market, a situation that I took maximum advantage of. Many countries enacted measures to protect the value of their own currency, those measures caused economic problems years later. There is nothing a government can do to stop a market crash once it starts, they can only delay it. Valefor.Sehachan said: » We got funny names too anyway, I think they exist everywhere. There's a town in Italy whose name translates as "Nicebutt". From what I understand this is actually pretty accurately describes the only way many Italian men know how to relate to 50-55% of the world's population. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Magnus Ver Magnusson Now this is what we need more of. World Strongman competitions!
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Asura.Saevel said: » No. A governments ability to tax existed long before floating currencies existed. Long before the ability to many paper existed. A government can tax without needing a floating currency. They are two completely separate things. And before government issued paper currency you had letters of credit and transferable bank notes. Those notes would sometimes be sold for less then their stated value under the condition that they were only redeemable at a future date, aka bonds before we had bonds. Thank you for the history lesson but that's got nothing to do with anything you are trying to step to. If you want to refute my point then you need to present an argument that dismantles the current practices of the central banks. Modern Monetary Theory is where you need to focus. The value of money has more to do with trust of the value of money than it being a fiat currency.
It's called inflation, and has nothing to do with taxation. Taxation can remain stagnate (like it has been for the past 3 years) but the actual value (called purchasing power) of the currency depends on how much people can buy products with it. Taxation and Inflation are two separate concepts. One determines the value of money (purchasing power) and the other is used to pay for the government's functions. If you don't believe me, ask Zimbabwe about it's currencies. Or look up hyper-inflation. Not that I don't believe you, you like Sav are demonstrating a very small understanding of how modern money systems works which is odd for someone who claims to be an accountant.
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » for someone who claims to be an accountant
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » Not that I don't believe you, you like Sav are demonstrating a very small understanding of how modern money systems works which is odd for someone who claims to be an accountant. Accountancy != broader fiscal policy. You can be good at one and not the other. Anyway, I stopped following this discussion a little bit ago, so I don't have any idea who's right, but KN's accountant chops are legit. Asura.Kingnobody said: » axation and Inflation are two separate concepts. One determines the value of money (purchasing power) and the other is used to pay for the government's functions. If you don't believe me, ask Zimbabwe about it's currencies. Or look up hyper-inflation. Taxes does not create new money. Taxation is the returning of distributed money back to the distributor for the purpose of redistribution. If the money is not returned then the distributor is forced to create new money which in turn causes inflation lessening the value of the currency. So when you want to pretend that taxes aren't tied into the value of fiat currencies and present the argument of it causing hyper inflation. You simply have it backwards.
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KN seems like a legit accountant, but he also seems -- to me -- to be someone with limited first-hand experience with poor and/or blue-collar workers and he believes a lot of the negative stereotypes that are out there, much like he feels -- not without merit -- that I characterize all/most corporations as greedy entities looking to screw everyone but their shareholders.
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Professional disinformers are unfortunately a known thing. And they exist in all fields.
But honestly how can you tell them apart from real trolls and just random people with a lot of time to waste online(like us!) (I've often wondered if Saevel is one when he waltzes into climate change threads lol)
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » Professional disinformers are unfortunately a known thing. And they exist in all fields. But honestly how can you tell them apart from real trolls and just random people with a lot of time to waste online(like us!) Well, sure. astroturfing has been around long before there was even an internet (or astroturf!). What I'm saying is, the market's expanding, and we should get our cut of the action, that's all. GET PAID.
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Like I mentioned before, I have unfortunately the kind of stupid morals that don't allow me to do something like that even if it paid diamond showers.
Trust me I do like money! But it seems that easy money always has a catch :(
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » Taxes does not create new money. Taxation is the returning of distributed money back to the distributor for the purpose of redistribution. If the money is not returned then the distributor is forced to create new money which in turn causes inflation lessening the value of the currency. You are making the assumption that taxation creates or otherwise determines the value of money (or fiat currency if you want to keep using that term, it's basically the same thing). Unless....you don't know what the term "fiat" means. Which, going by your argument, you don't. But that's another topic at hand. You are attributing a collection process to value. That is absolutely false. Taxation can and has remain constant, while value of the money itself has changed, changes daily, and changes in either direction without any help of the government and/or it's taxing policies. Lakshmi.Zerowone said: » So when you want to pretend that taxes aren't tied into the value of fiat currencies and present the argument of it causing hyper inflation. You simply have it backwards.
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Drama Torama said: » Accountancy != broader fiscal policy. Accountancy is maintaining the status quo. Broader fiscal policy changes as the public demands or those in power wishes to sway more power for themselves. All accountants do is record/report information and analyze said information and current laws. Drama Torama said: » |
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