Murgleis

Since the conversation was about BLU doing WSs, he was probably thinking about BLU doing 15k CDCs. While a BLU might get 15k CDCs every once in awhile, it is not going to average 15k.

Um sir. If u read carefully I didn't say it's not possible I said not everyone can average 15k.

And if u check ur own math average 15k, high end 35k that means majority of ws is 8-9k with a few end up to bring average to 15k?

Not sure about other melee job's WS avg potential, since I rarely pt with unpopular melee jobs. But if you want to argue that "certain jobs can't hit 15k WS avg", then the issue is the gap between melee jobs, not melee DD mechanic needs fix.

But yes, 15k WS avg is definitely doable, at least I've done it several times on COR with fully buffed savage blade/leaden salute/WF.

Based on the BLU spreadsheet on BLU forum, 15k avg CDC seems doable on paper. In real FFXI experience, most of the BLU parsed around 11k~12k WS avg on mid-tier melee friendly content like Escha T2+/AA and SR, they can probably avg higher on T1s and reach 15k range, or if they have top tier gear like HQ adhemar, but I never get to do T1 with BLUs + full buff from GEO.

Besides BLU, with proper buff in acc capped content I often hit 15k+ avg with savage blade or leaden salute on COR in in mid-tier battle content, a bit higher on easier stuff like T1, and my WS set isn't even amazing....don't have 5/5 WSD aug herc yet. All those are scoreboard parse results, not eyeballed result from random spike. I'd imagine cloudsplitter/savage blade WAR can reach same lv of ws avg if COR can do it.

15k cdc once in a while is actually pretty average for a blue. I can reach 15k average cdc with cor and geo buffs on T1 reisenjima NMs. I was doing 19ks spike damage unbuffed on T1s.

Since this discussion now turns into WS avg argument I'd like to clarify:

I didn't specify "BLU" when I mentioned 15k WS dmg (Although spreadsheet shows that 15k avg CDC is still doable with full buffs.), I was talking about melee DD mechanic as a whole.　I used "15k ws avg" as an example because that's the melee COR WS avg I had on a few(not all) parse result with proper buffs. Feel free to change to something like 11k or 12k avg, the melee DD mechanic argument is still valid. Some argued that BLM is op because 99999 MB looks op in chat log, I just wanted to point out that BLM MB needs 2 people to pull it off and SC needs time to setup. While 2 melee hitting stuff at capped haste on low lv target can still do comparable damage when they spam WS at capped haste with SAM roll up.

Overall I don't think melee DD mechanic has an issue.


Trueflight dmg scale up with more tp, he probably meant at 1000 tp trueflight does 15k dmg, at 3000 it's 35k.

correct 15k is average no buffs at all 1000tp.
35k-40k is average at 3000 tp with mage buffs. Otherwise 3000 tp is averages 22k

You're correct. I started it to see if people with rdm mythic find it worth making still. I'd like to know how much damage it's weapon skill creates. Can rdm out damage things like War and Drk?

Yea 11-12k is a better example overall. While melee is fine magic burst will blow melee setup away. It doesn't take that long to setup. Of coz u can magic burst death for 99,999 but when there's 2 or 3 withs deaths that's a lotta damage.

For me I use 2 scholar and a black Mage, while still fairly new at this. We take turns skill chaining. Takes what 10 secs to do a Skillchain? Among us we do 6 spells, tier 6 and tier 5 for black Mage, tier 5 and 4 for non skillchain scholar and tier 5 and 2 for scholar doing skillchain. That's 6 spells in 20-25 secs. And next scholar can skillchain immediately after done. That's pretty broken while being safe.

Wait isn't this topic about murg? Lol

I think we're talking about completely different scenario then. The setup you mentioned actually used 3 DD+ 1 GEO per MB, that's why you can get 6 spells per MB. If you reduce the pt size to 2 or 1 DD you need double or triple amount of time to do 6 spells since you'd need to MB twice unless GEO nukes too. On the other hand it's possible to swing melee weapons at capped haste with just 1 melee+ GEO.

If melee WS can avg mega high such as 40k at 1000 tp it'd be pretty broken considering there are very little downtime between WSs.

The gap between melee and MB setups is mainly a result of the ridiculous acc requirements for T3 and the cheapness of safe damage, not really the delay, timing, organization, w/e. It would also be nice if SC damage wasn't heavily resisted without +macc/-meva but even without that extra damage, the spam of a strong WS is still just fine... as long as the dd can actually hit and survive. I can hit a T2 reisenjima NM for like 10-11k average without any outside melee buffs non-stop (with a bit lacking gear so could be better) but an MB setup is too cheap so people just resort to that. T3 is a whole different story though.

This is what I was saying pages back, melees are fine as long as you can hit stuff. But ppl always go "blm so op with 99999 dmg, my ws dmg is weak, buff melee ws please" when acc is the real issue here, not your dmg in chat log.

...Still? Murgleis is a weapon you make for love of the job and/or AH points. From a utility perspective, it has never been worth its price tag.

4.0 fTP, three hits (no fTP transfer), 50% MND 30% STR. Doesn't scale with TP. It's nothing special. The 30% damage bonus from fully upgrading your mythic helps, but that basically just lets it catch up (roughly) to the weaponskills you'd use prior to the upgrade.

As a side note, I just noticed that only three mythic WS (Death Blossom, Mordant Rime, and Vidohunir) are reported to have a level 2 secondary skillchain property... and all three are listed as Fragmentation/Distortion. Ground Strike has the same skillchain properties. To my knowledge, these are the only weaponskills with two level 2 skillchain properties. Very odd.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say no. Even if you could, you're going to run into accuracy problems long before a melee job would. Anything you can cap hitrate on, the honest answer is likely to be "Who *** cares?"

It's a lowman/solo melee toy and a Convert macro piece.

Long before, no. A little before, yes. It is not a lowman/solo melee toy and convert macro piece. Whether it be delve, vagary, escha NMs, or what have you, I do quite well meleeing and enfeebling with it.

So OP, take it from someone who actually plays RDM and uses a Murgleis. It is a great enfeebling and melee piece. Come next month it will be even greater.

rdm meleeing w/o Murgleis hits as fast (or faster) than a blu. Temper II makes multi-attacks ridiculous. With a Murgleis it's seriously overpowered. I'm making one now so that SE can gimp it once I finish. x.x

excuse me, maybe i'm missing the point but... isnt exactly the fact that rdm can already get 50+ TA rate what makes murgleis subpar in the first place?

Not so much, since AM3 is last in the multi-attack order, and since it's like 1.8 attacks per round (2.8 while dual wielding) you'd need to have ridiculous amounts of triple attack AND double attack for Murgleis to not be a DPS boost. But, Murg's main appeal is being able throw on other stats and also land very potent enfeebles all while swinging away.

It's not crazy OP like some of the other mythics have been in the history of the game. But, if you love the job and want to melee while still being useful, it's a good weapon.

The first hit has the benefit of massive TA. If TA doesn't proc on the first hit, then Murgleis can still proc DA or TA. On top of that, with aftermath, you get increased acc and attack, and the DA and TA can proc on weaponskills. There is no subpar. This is not the sword you are looking for.

In reference to the earlier WS average numbers I pulled 13k average against Maju last night on Dancer using my Pyrrhic Kleos accuracy build. Cycle time was closer to 10 seconds than 4 due to JA/WS delays though.

Protey, is it possible to out MB other jobs on rdm? I did vagary a few months back and the rdm is the one winning every time for overall damage. And it was significantly higher. They were all great players. So can't blame that.

Due to lower native elemental skill and lower MAB job trait, it shouldn't be possible for RDM to beat blm or sch with the same gear. That said, the RDM could simply have better gear or been in a sweet spot for macc.

BLMs will beat RDM if they're both geared well/max gifts. RDM can pull ahead on NMs sometimes using Chainspell (can hit 3 MB'd Tier Vs if timed right). BLM has advantages when it comes to nuking as they should really, they have a lot more job trait magic burst +%, elemental accuracy, damage from gifts, higher tier spells, and the ability to keep MP high with Myrkr or their reforged AF1 body. Also with the way resists on magic bursts work whoever is getting the first magic bursts in on a skillchain will be getting the bulk of the damage.

For Vagary a good RDM can keep pretty close to a good BLM. For Reisenjima NMs though the gap is going to be a lot more noticeable in the BLM's favor.

Also very probable that they were getting the first bursts in if your other nukers had weaker FC sets, thereby avoiding the resist wall.

EDIT: Beaten to the burst wall thingy.

Words I can finally understand lol

Yep, in vagary since we can nuke more often than BLM, i'm always close or first in parse, but for reinji 135++, its just impossible for rdm even with god tier gear.

If you plan on truly meleeing on any content that is serious content, it's Murgleis or bust. There is no other weapon that allows you to still be a full-functioning RDM and a contributing DD the way that this sword does.

-Most MACC on a weapon for RDM
-OAT2-3 and low delay pairs well with temper2 and the boosted enspells over the recent year
-In February, will be one of the 3 highest base damage weapons for RDM again
-Addition of some hefty "magic damage" to Murgleis in February

The Convert bonus was always nothing more than a safety valve while meleeing content with bad AoEs at close ranges. But it sure is crazy good when combined with the capped Convert Job Point gift category (70% total HP back).

That's not actually true. Multi-Attack effects are less of an increase, percentage wise, with AM3 from a Mythic. They are still a DPS increase and thus there is no reason not to use when possible, but they lose quite a bit of effectiveness. It's for this reason that I only use my Tizona when I know I'm going to need a constant source of MP, otherwise my Tanmogayi +1 is better overall damage. For this same reason a well Augmented Colada would actually be better damage then a Murgleis.

Now having said that, when RME's are updated and Murgleis gets boosted this will change and Murg will likely be back on top, along with my Tizona and Almace. So if someone wants to plan for the future, then they would seriously look into a Murg + Almace combination.

On a side note, Dual Wielding max augmented Malevolence's is ridiculously OP for a Apex CP party that use's SC's. Energy Drain spam will keep you from ever having to remotely worry about MP and it doesn't interrupt SC's. Duel wielding them just makes your T5 nukes hit hard as hell on that SC.

One of those daggers gives you


Haven't found any other weapon that comes close, though you have to sacrifice your sub for /NIN or /DNC.

Only until they introduce a new line of augmented weapons or upgrade reisenjima augments to match the new RME power :P A new SR for ZM or CoP NPCs (animations and TP moves are already there) or some rare/ex from WotG UNMs and new merit BCs, calling it.

They updated REMs once post SoA release and they are still lacking for an "ultimate" weapon. I won't be surprised if they pull out interchangable alternatives shortly after the upcoming REM update.

I don't think so anymore, I do believe this will be the "final" power upgrade for them. What gives it away is the higher level stats, they weapons are effectively iLevel 121 even though there is nothing else in this game that is iLevel 121. Usually RME's trail newer power stages not lead. Another clue is the stupid evasion of the current "super tier" content. It's well beyond our ability to reach without resorting to some pretty drastic and exclusionary measures, and SE fully knows this and has done it intentionally. This leads me to believe that they will either slowly reduce those stats, or more likely raise ours to eventually match. Gives them a nice buffer room to raise our power level without making stuff "too easy, too fast".

The magic damage is definitely awesome (outpacing most staff options now maybe?) but Almace and Excalibur look better in terms of pure melee. The Almace DEX increase along with the sword skill makes up for the lower sword skill RDM has. Still not going to be nearly as strong as BLU but it's something for melee. Maybe the lower delay and AM will help it win out?

But will melee RDM ever be seen in endgame stuff (Reisenjima?) without fully upgraded REM? And if you get one, which one would be the one to go after first? I always loved the Murgleis but viewed it was a sylelock piece and looked more towards "better" Mythics like Nirvana or Tizona (or Idris). I was going to make an Excalibur (higher damage and easier to make) or Almace(much needed DEX and useable by BLU) instead.

As far as swords are concerned, pure DD related, Murgleis looks like it could outperform Tizona. A decent chunk of delay off compared to Tizona for very little reduction in base DMG.