Fencer Builds

Someone mentioned WS frequency a few posts back. I actually did some quick math to see how big the difference REALLY was. Since I decided there is no way to tell EXACTLY how often Double attack would proc, I just used 0 as my number. I also used TP resetting to 0 because the values are different depending on if you are in Adoulin or not and I didn't feel like doing both. But the extra TP you get after a WS actually favors Sword, so G.Axe looks better when starting from 0.

So, in a vacuum with with a totally reasonable party setup of WAR/SAM, COR/DNC and GEO/RDM, in 300 seconds(Five minutes)...

WAR using G.axe with 545 delay will WS 41 times.
WAR using Sang+1 with 281 delay will WS 30 times.
WAR using Uson with 231 delay will WS 29 times.

The interesting bit is if you add a regular Dancer with merited HS...

Suddenly WAR using Sang+1 will WS 37 times. WAR using G.axe will not WS any faster due to already having capped delay.

Savage blade has to do 1.25 the damage of of a G.axe WS to make up the difference WITHOUT a Dancer.

These numbers only reflect that absolute minimums if your tp went to 0 after each WS and double attack never procced. As we all know, this isn't at all a possibilities and thus my numbers are off, they are merely meant as a baseline. Both characters are also wearing the exact same gear(which also would not happen). Also, this is assuming that your SAM roll is giving you at least 50stp. A lucky roll will give you 52stp with no roll bonus kicking in from relic. Obviously if you DA every time, G.Axe would double to 82 WS. Sang+1 would only go to 60.

This is just meant to be an example, not at all to be scrutinized or taken seriously. It just shows what would happen in a vacuum under very specific conditions.

Edit: Also, Last Stand > Savage Blade is light. Tachi: Kasha > Savage > Fudo is double light. Shinji Spiral > Savage > V.Smite is double light. It takes very little coordination to do a two man three step chain.

I made a somewhat ok set for cloudsplitter and it generally was still terrible without like malaise on, and its not always ideal to expect acumen and malaise if the other DDs are not using magical weaponskills.


From the initial weaponskill changes last year, this formula was determined, not sure if the formula has been chance since?

Can see it here also:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/121610-Rehauled-Weapon-Skills-tier-lists?p=6145268&highlight=flvl#post6145268

Great Axe WAR does not cap delay without haste samba either, even with hasso.

Edit: nevermind i see your party already includes /dnc haste samba.

Thanks, that's what I needed. Means a 119 player will have a base DMG value of 201, then add the rest. I only mentioned CS seriously because the same buffs / debuffs that make it stronger also make your SC stronger. Skill chains are magic attacks that use the closing WS's damage as it's base damage then multiplies by SC bonus, then adds MDMG then divides by MAB/MDB with MAB set to 100. So by using Accumen and Malise you significantly increase your SC damage by boosting the closing WS then reducing the targets magic defense. Then there are the magic bursted nukes that do even more damage. It's a strategy where the combined SC + nuke damage dwarfs any physical damage done so you focus on that instead, otherwise your doing the physical method with little care for big bursts which diminishes the need for SCs. Seen Flash Nova -> Flash Nova for 18~20K each doing fragmentation for nearly the same on the Delve Tree with HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE aero nukes. It's basically what happens during a Primeval Brew.

Anyhow it's good that people are talking about this rather then immediately shutting it down. It's a weird way to play WAR and I feel SE should of given all the Fencer stuff to BST, RDM or some other job that doesn't have DW or a 2H weapon, but if we got it might as well see if it's worth using.

Beastmasters have been using Swooping > Cloudsplitter for exactly this purpose. My CS set isn't anything to write home about, but I can do a 27k Cloudsplitter on the first stage of Tojil with a 54k light with Malaise, Acumen and Swooping debuff.

The only major issue with Cloudsplitter is that it limits content. Ideally, you want to be able to take your WAR to any content that has melee DD, and CS limits that to those not Earth or Lightning based. With using Savage Blade or Mistral Axe, WAR could go to Yorcia Delve and have a decent performance, but an abysmal performance if they were build around Cloudsplitter. Granted, this might not limit that much content, but as mentioned, you don't want to be limited and that's the problem.

I would imagine a viable Cloudsplitter build would nearly require Kumbhakarna (Alluvion Axe) (or Farsha, I guess):
DMG:169 Delay:322 Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +188 MAB+20 WSD+4% Save TP+100

Then, you would have to build a second (almost) full set of Acro, each one with WSD+3%, MAB+10. This is just a quick thought and I have not investigated if there are better MAB slots available, but this includes Phorcys Korazin.

Lol, just wanted to throw ukkos out there and not start a debate. To me, with all the crit+dmg and wsdmg I have, i'm happy with it. Is it sporadic? Yes. 4000-13000 range, most in my estimation hanging around 7k. And even more, great light opener for upheaval. Gear i have now for it. 5/5 acro critdmg 3%, though don't need the feet, you'll use empy. Yetshill is 5% rate and use rancor neck and another 5% from my maulers.

If you can get weaponskill damage + augment on both leaf and dusk according to bgwiki table, that could be 8% on 1 axe if you give up save tp. If thats actually possible from both and you can stack them, it may do more for cloudsplitter to go that route.

Leaf is WSD, Dusk is just Weapon Damage (DMG+22, etc)

Ok screwed around a bit with this, made a MAB set for WAR and so far Axe seems to be the overall winner for versatility. Sword spamming savage blade is the highest damage, 10~15K savage blades are extremely common and 22~25K under MSBR but your SC options are limited unless you have someone else that can do a fusion WS. Axe on the other hand is almost as powerful but offers a way to self light and self darkness. Cloudsplitter does 5~8K depending on buffs and target while making darkness, with GEO doing accumen + maliase you can get 15~18K Cloudsplitters for similiar darkness's. Cloudsplitter to Mistral Axe produces light and you MA will do 8~12K with decent buffs. For some really fancy stuff you can do CS -> Ruinator = Distortion -> Mistral = Fragmentation -> CS = Light. Had fun screwing around with different combos.

Ultimately, it still boils down to whether or not your DPS can keep up without capped Haste, and by the WS numbers, it doesn't sound like it, even with 20K Darkness SCs. I just don't see WAR trumping SAM or BLU because of their capped delay and SC ability.

It easily beats out GAXE builds that don't involve the Mythic, looks to beat out GSWD builds depending. It won't beat my BLU though. Ultimately it doesn't matter as in the past few months I haven't seen any instances of strict job restrictions. Most of the people insisting on "play X bandwagon job or go home" have since been banned, it's become a game where you can do most things you want with whatever DD's, as long as they can do a two step SC.

what kind of sword/shield combos are good for fencer builds? both simple to get and harder to get

Sangarius +1/Blurred Shield (+1) should still be best.

any suggestions until they could be acquired? The shield is a hq synth and looks to be pretty rare to find. And im sure it would be expensive as hell if one was one the market.

Well I put +1 in parenthesis for a reason.

well i thought that since the nq lacked the 'fencer +1' that it might allow something else to be a better option before +1 comes along. - im mainly a drk and thf; shields arnt my specialty'

Still Blurred. WSD+5% and 15 acc+atk is sexy.

NQ is the next best option on shield.

What do we now think about the feasibility of a Cloudsplitter build now in the wake of Sinister Reign?

Purgation
DMG:+156 Delay:288
Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +188
Accuracy+20 Magic damage taken -4% "Double Attack"+3%
"Undead Killer"+10
Augments: DMG+15 Attack+10 Store TP+6 Weapon Skill Damage+3%

Jumalik Helm
DEF:120 HP+45 MP+29 STR+21 DEX+15 VIT+38 AGI+15 INT+8 MND+8 CHR+8 Magic Accuracy+20 Magic Damage+20 Evasion+30 Magic Evasion+53 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+20 "Magic Def. Bonus"+2 Divine magic skill +20 Physical damage taken -5% Haste+7%
Augments: MND+10 Magic Atk. Bonus+15

Founder's Breasplate
DEF:146 HP+70 STR+30 DEX+26 VIT+30 AGI+21 INT+21 MND+21 CHR+21 Accuracy+20 Attack+20 Magic Accuracy+20 Evasion+44 Magic Evasion+59 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+20 "Magic Def. Bonus"+4 Haste+3% "Double Attack"+3% Augments "Killer" effects Annuls damage taken +2%
Augments: Accuracy+15 Attack+15 Magic Accuracy+15 Magic Atk. Bonus+15

Founder's Gauntlets
DEF:102 HP+31 STR+11 DEX+34 VIT+34 AGI+10 INT+8 MND+25 CHR+19 Attack+20 Evasion+24 Magic Evasion+32 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+20 "Magic Def. Bonus"+1 Haste+4% "Double Attack"+2% "Counter"+3 "Killer" effects +2
Augments: STR+10 Attack+15 Magic Accuracy+15 Magic Atk. Bonus+15

Founder's Greaves
DEF:84 HP+20 STR+19 DEX+21 VIT+19 AGI+28 MND+7 CHR+21 Accuracy+20 Evasion+55 Magic Evasion+80 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+20 "Magic Def. Bonus"+2 Haste+3% "Double Attack"+2% Terror resistance +30 "Killer" effects +2
Augments: VIT+10 Accuracy+15 Magic Atk. Bonus+15


That's a lot of Magic Atk. Bonus in slots that would have previously cost the earth.

Cloud splitter was already feasible before for magic focused parties with dark MB's. Recent gear just made my old Yorim MAB gear obsolete. The founder's gear is on my list of things to do when I get back. A MAB augmented Axe would still be a better option then that one by a pretty big margin.

Ideally, you would be looking at:

Kumbhakarna
DMG:169 Delay:322
Axe skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +188
Augments: Magic Attack Bonus +20 Weapon Skill Damage +4% MND+17

The MND+17 could be argued to Save TP+100; they will both increase DoT, but as you might miss a bit more not having melee accuracy, Save TP might benefit you more.

This is a Cloudsplitter build I'm working on. I haven't had luck getting the Founder's body or the Helm with a decent augment to drop but I have most of everything else. I've been using Phorcys Body and Highwing Helm in my Cloudsplitter build until I get the Founder's Body and Jumalik Helm (with a good MAB augment) to drop.

Also, by using /RDM you get 2 tiers of MAB via trait (MAB +24) on top of all the gear. Let me know your thoughts.

ItemSet 337624

Eschite Cuisses are nice for this too. +25 mab on Path D. What have there is pretty good though. The Blurred Shield is better than Theullaic.

My problem is lack of crafters that make Blurred items. The only Smithy I knew that I could trust recently quit. Vulcanite Ore is pretty rare to come across as well due to people not doing T3 Escha NMs in Zi'Tah. (hardly ever done on Shiva) So the Theuallic is the best available option for me, sadly.

The prospect of a new Ridill has me the most interested I've ever been in Fencer Warrior. If it's as unbalanced as it was at 75 I could seriously see it being great. OA2-3 (or maybe even higher!) can make up for the lack of JA haste in some regard and Ridill unlike most OAX weapons didn't lose any damage for having those stats. The sucky part is OAX didn't scale all too well especially for War.

Isn't WAR able to equip the Demersal Degen? The Joyeuse knockoff from the Unity Concord NM in SSG? IIRC doesn't that have OAT and a pretty decent base dmg stat?

Its kinda low dmg low delay. HQ:110dmg 218 delay NQ: 109dmg 224delay
Also it considered piercing during melee.

The reason Ridill was so powerful as that it had OA2-3 without sacrificing very much base damage. Especially in the time it shined before things like Koggelmanger and Perdu came out. Joytoy had the base damage of a level 60ish sword but was made up for with having OAT. Personally I'm hoping for 130ish damage (below Nibiru but only by 3).