The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

Trust me they're just for lockstyle.

The main issue with all the other rema weapons is that they offer nothing for bloodpacts and that is where 90%+ of our damage comes from. Claustrum aftermath is incredible and I would love to have a reason to make one, but it's useless if you are swapping to Nirvana for physical or Grioavolr for magical. You are dropping -8 perp cost and 40 bp damage for an aftermath you will immediately lose for bloodpacting unless you want to bloodpact in claustrum and lose a lot of damage.

If Claustrum occasionally made your avatar attack for 2.5x damage then it would a different story.

Well I would say Claustrum is for lockstyle only. The others have uses. Personally I did not go for afterglow hvergelmir. But I have invested time/money into a Khatvanga Impact Set/Mercurial Pole Melee Set/6 Hit Nirvana build. And each set has helped me out tremendously especially the mercurial pole set believe it or not.

so I have a keraunos with bp 10 double att /crit 3% mab 20, Is it worth buying a was or gridarvor for phis bps? I have espiritus for mag bps. also if it is which should I buy as there is 5 mill diff in the 2

For Phys BPs with transfer FTP properties you should be using an augmented Gridarvor.
For the other Phys BPs (most of which don't really matter that much) you can use Was.
Was is probably the best there but, again, those BPs hardly matter.
If there's one BP that matters where Was arguably trumps all other options (except Nirvana of course!) is Flaming Crush.

Going back to your Keraunos, I'd swap the 20 mab for 20 att and use it for your phys BPs.
Then get a Grioavolr for magic BPs (or if you don't wanna play the random game, get an Espiritus)

Thats awesome ty. Anyone know how to write a macro with -bp gear , bp , +bp dmg gear in same macro i cant figure it out.

If you mean vanilla:
/equipset {delay} <wait 0>
/pet {bloodpact} <wait 1>
/equipset {BPdmg} <wait n>
/equipset {idle}

Was your issue just that you didn't know about <wait> in lieu of /wait?

yea ty , I use macro with multiple bp on diff lines but I figured it out

/equipset bp delay
/pet bp
/pet bp
/pet bp
/wait 1
/equipset bp dmg

i have very recently started gearing up my smn (already have hq apogee and other basic stuff, i only miss Omen stuff), and i was thinking of building a nirvana. Fact is, i have over 13k HPB stored for epeolatry right now (missing 2 months worth of coalitions), and i was wondering if i should find a deal, trade them for alexandrites, and make a nirvana instead. I know that, ultimately, the choice is mine and we're talking of 2 very different weapons for very different purposes (and i'm sure i'll do both, eventually), but i thought i would post on here, so that someone who plays both jobs would give me a word of advice.

Dear diary... Today Oseem was not a total ***.


Is 25 the cap on mab? I have not seen anything over 25 yet and I can't find anything on pet augments for Grioavolr. Unfortunately I didn't get a macc augment to go with it :/

30 is the cap with pellucid, 25 with Fern or Taupe. Grats on an excellent roll.

Here's my Grio with pellucid augs:



I wasn't sure, until recently, that 30 mab was the cap for pellucid, so I spent a lot of stones trying to increase this over time. Granted, a higher macc aug would have been great.

I'm only about 1/3 of the way done with Epeolatry, and Rune is a much lower priority job for me than SMN so I may be a little biased...

That said, in my opinion Nirvana makes a much bigger difference to SMN than Epeo does to RUN. BP Dmg +40 plus two avatar levels is several orders of magnitude better than the next best option. Epeo, on the other hand, while the PDT2 is great... you generally don't need it. I do just fine with Aettir. I've pulled for Reisen AOEs, pulled in Omen, etc. It's no problem if you keep Phalanx/Cocoon up.

Epeo is a complete luxury. Nirvana is HUGE. That's my 2 cents. :)

That said, if you enjoy RUN or SMN much more than the other, then that's probably the job you should make a weapon for!

I agree and disagree with your Nirvana/Epeolatry comments.
My two cents, and nobody will agree with me of course.

Nirvana is absolutely awesome and shows an insane difference on some things, but on others the difference is small or Nirvana is actually worse than other options.
Typical situations for which SMN will swap staves
1) Flaming Crush => Nirvana destroys all other options, the difference is huge here
2) "normal" Physical BPs => Pretty big difference here as well, but those BPs aren't particularly relevant
3) FTP carrying Physical BPs => Nirvana is better, but the difference with the next best option (Gridarvor) is not really huge. In some extreme situations (lack of acc) Gridarvor can actually pull slightly ahead
4) Magical BPs => Other options are better than Nirvana
5) SMN Skill => Other options are better than Nirvana
6) BP Ward debuffs => Nirvana has pros from the levels, but other options are equal/better to Nirvana
7) Idle => Perpetuation is not a relevant stat anymore. The +2 levels adds a lot of attack and accuracy (and survivability, which imho isn't very relevant though for sacrificable pets like Avatars) but imho other options are better, like the mentioned Gridarvor which gives more or less the same att, even more acc, plus additional DA and Haste, freeing up more options in the other slots to reach pet haste cap.

So, from this point of view, Nirvana is an insane king for a couple of things, but for the rest uhm, it kinda leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
I'm not factoring AM of course, which implies a pretty different playstyle which is fun to use, but not realistically useable in every circumstance. Playing with AM sure opens up a different playstyle for SMN and from this perspective yes, it changes your playstyle a lot. It's just not a playstyle you can realistically expect to be using everywhere. Many SMNs I see around don't even bother with it (shame on them!) and just use Nirvana for pretty much everything thinking that, since it's a Mythic weapon, hey! It's gotta be the best for everything, right? Alas, no. I wish!


Epeolatry is considered gamechanging by many RUNs but again I disagree here. It's an awesome weapon indeed and allows a much bigger degree of survivability and in some circumstances makes RUN perfectly viable for extreme scenarios, whereas an Aettir RUN would be kinda... stretching.
Still, the fact Epe has less acc and less Meva than Aettir, leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Imho it doesn't really change much in how you play RUN, despite the plentiful new options in gearing paradygms it opens up, you still do the same job, just better.


Other RMEAs are those who really change radically the performance of a job. I can think of Marsyas and Daurdabla99 for BRD, or Idris for GEO. Those things really change things a lot for you AND the party/alliances you play with.


Just my two cents, I'm aware 99% of people will disagree with me, and I don't claim my view is the "absolute truth", just my personal take on the matter.

Nirvana's -8 perp is extremely helpful in dd sets. Try to make an accuracy set without nirvana while staying MP efficient or not dropping a ton of acc and see how well that goes lol. It would be easier now that Was +1 is a thing but finding room for 15 perp cost on an acc starved job is rough. You could always rely on Myrkr but at that point you are not opening skillchains for your avatar so why melee in the first place.

As Sechs said, Nirvana is king for pretty much everything physical but way behind on anything magic (except flaming crush ofc). Flaming Crush is an absolute monster and Ifrit has the perfect set of abilities for melee SMN to take full advantage of Nirvana.
-Double attack favor is very helpful
-shattersoul + flaming crush makes fragmentation which you can then make light with either flaming crush or garland of bliss. Shattersoul > FC > FC is bread and butter when apogee is up or Shattersoul > Garland > FC if you have the buffs to get tp fast enough.
-Garland can close light for respectable numbers when apogee is down (10k+ on things without magic defense buffs + another 10k+ from light).
-Shattersoul lowers magic defense and Garland of Bliss lowers defense which boosts Ifrit's damage even more.

I feel Nirvana is hit or miss and could use a mab buff but it's still really solid atm. If you can take advantage of the physical bloodpacts then it shines like a diamond, but the moment you start relying on magic bursting it becomes a fancy idle staff at best.

Yeah if you start meleeing (and making use of AMs) it's a different story.
From that perspective I can agree Nirvana "changes" the SMN job, still not as much as the other RMEAs I named, but you get what I mean.

It's just that, while fun and sometimes very effective, I don't consider that a particularly reliable playstyle. Sometimes you just cannot afford to go that route, simple as that.


tl;dr
It seems to me Nirvana and Epeolatry are both fantastic weapons with some small and neglibible flaws, but I kinda put them more or less in the same spot for their respective jobs.

One of the main flaws Nirvana has (imo) is that it wasn't given stats to fill the magic BP role instead of just physical.

Irrelevant. I much prefer that it has a niche and fills it well than to have it become an all encompassing piece.

Uhm... for a Mythic weapon that gives +2 level to your avatar and considering you lose that bonus whenever you swap to another staff, I would rather have Nirvana being an "best all around" staff. It wouldn't take away from the current role it has, it would just become even better.

It's frankly quite a shame. Nirvana is still awesome but as I said before the fact it's not the best for everything and I have to swap to other staves for specific things kinda leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth, but that's just me of course.


I dunno, as I said before the bonuses of Nirvana are quite evident, and they're even more so in situations where you can play with AM3.
At the same time though I wouldn't go as far as some people go and say Nirvana is "necessary" to be a good SMN.

I think Nirvana is less necessary for a SMN for it to be good at its job, than a 269 RMEA weapon is for a DD.

I must sorta agree and sorta disagree.
Mostly on the Epeolatry account.
The only REAME that are really transformative are Idris and Daurabluh. Both push those jobs beyond the pale.
And while something like Aegis is basically a requirement for playing PLD... it just makes you do what you were already doing but better. Like Epeolatry for RUN.

TBH the 121 should have gotten 100 MAB or at the very least 100~200 Mdmg. Just something to close the gap on magic BPs.
I mean, just from the Lv+2 it has the most Macc... all it's missing is a magic damage boost.

I would argue that no one *NEEDS* any 121 weapon.
We're much more balanced in weapon choice than even in the 75era.
Though obviously any REAME pulls ahead over regular 119 options... I've seen regular DDs outparse REAME holders.
I've seen regular tanks hold hate better than REAME holders.
They are hands down top of the heap, and will make clearing content much easier for your group... and everyone should be working towards at least one.
But by no means are we beholden to the extreme demand for them as we were in the 99era.
Not that you really said we were exactly.
But basically all the REAMEs now are the top of the top, rather than a requirement to "be decent"; as you can do just fine without.

The +2 is a minor at best buff when it comes to magic pacts. Nirvana hasn't been useful for 3 of our 4 major pact roles since pre ilvl. The only legitimate complaint there is is that ilvl119iii got nothing.

It also hasn't had serious competition for phys pacts before was. As much as i dump on that staff, at least it helps people become semiviable for late endgame.

Was the macc of nirvana ever found?

It's not irrelevant. You only feel that way now because you've reached a point in your SMN's development where it no longer matters to you since you've made everything you need. But if you rewind the clock to when things were actually semi-challenging and time consuming to make, I'm sure you would have thought the same thing about the mythic super weapon for SMN.

I disagree. You wont find too many Nirvana-less SMN's efficiently clearing T4's without being carried in some capacity by other better geared SMN's. Nirvana is the best physical BP staff in the game so I'm a little confused by that statement. Physical BP's are essential for T4's that call for that particular strategy.

And I'd also like to know if any non-Nirvana SMN has been invited to be part of a 6-man 60-second or less Schah clear.

I know perg did schah 13 man with 6 smn. I'll assume not every one of them had nirvana, but him doing that proved it scaled really well. I also know that schah takes roughly 26 of my bloodpacts to kill, putting him in range of doing it with 2 nirvana smns and possibly 4 was smns



Pre soa/rov smn sucked, hard, and not just because smn was an eternally under powered job. There were so many events then where we just did not get gear and a long stretch where there was no alternative to nirvana. Just like bard and empy harp, being tied to a single piece of gear as a make or break endgame requirement is pretty shitty.

I'm in Pergs LS (that you referenced), so unless he did this 13-man with other friends, every SMN in our LS has Nirvana. It's not the same as bringing a non-Idris GEO to T4's where you're still able to win.

Hell, we did an Omen run yesterday where a random PUG Nirvana SMN did 5k Volt Strikes, so even having the weapon isn't helping certain players.

Tried to 6box it with 2 non-nirvana, 1 nirvana. All 3 were mastered, using the same set:

used 11 dragoons, beasts, companions, runeists, bolster idris frailty/torpor, dia2

damage didn't appear to be anything close to killing it, second add popped at 40%.. i did get ramuh amnesiaed and lose a few seconds to resummon but a bot handled the resummoning and BP spam so no time more than necessary was lost

I think it's pretty hard to disagree.
A melee DD will use his 269 weapon 100% of the time (let's leave aside niche situations).
A Nirvana SMN will use his Nirvana on 3 out of the 7 possible situations I defined above. Furthermore you can't realistically make use of AM3 (which is what makes Nirvana really pull ahead of other options, aside Flaming Crush where Nirvana is always incredibly hot) in every possible situation, the same doesn't apply for DDs where they can always make use of their 269 weapon.

And really like I said above, aside Flaming Crush and non-relevant Physical BPs, Nirvana doesn't really pull that much ahead of Gridarvor when using the TP-carrying BPs.
In some extreme situations Gridarvor actually pulls slightly ahead (when the additional acc matters, for instance)

From this point of view it's easy to see how a 269 weapon for a DD is imho more vital than a Nirvana is for a SMN.
I doubt I would invite a non 269 weapon DD for doing some really hard content, I might as well invite a SMN without Nirvana instead if I know he has good gear and he's a good player.


Hi there, meet Sechs! I don't have Nirvana and I use SMN, altough rarely, on some Aeonic fights.
Surprise surprise, I usually don't even get last on Scoreboard.
Omg how is that possible I wonder!
Because you guys are overestimating the difference Nirvana brings, because we're in the SMN thread and of course people are rightfully biased towards Nirvana.

The only spots where Nirvana pulls MILES ahead of other good options are: Flaming Crush, non relevant Physical BPs, TP carrying BPs (with AM3 up though).
In all other situations Nirvana's difference is either small, or Nirvana is actually behind other options (see magical BPs)

What I was commenting on was specifically Resienjima T4 HELM content without and without Nirvana. Since you admittedly do very little T4's on SMN then I guess my point still stands.

I wasn't talking about Nirvana vs Non-Nirvana on anything else.

Btw, if you don't believe Nirvana makes a difference between non-Nirvana SMN then I'm happy to parse against you some time - you know, for scientific testing purposes and such.