Ninja Equipment Sets (April 2015)

How do you rate the full reforged empyrean armor +1 set?

The body seems best piece, hands look good for accuracy; not sure if head/legs and feet are worth getting...

No idea what the total is on the (enhances dual wield) set bonus
of the full reforged empy set (or 2-3-4-5 pieces).

I see everyone using the Taeon all the time.

Any thoughts?

The set bonus is 10% off-hand DA for 5/5 equipped. (according to old testing done on BG) 2%/4%/7%/10% increments for the pieces equipped. Nobody is sure if the DA stacks, or is counted as OAT.

Other than what you mentioned about body, Head is good with Innin up, when you've got less than 30-35% magical haste. Hence, it's not very easy to work into your sets, but it can be done.

The hands are pretty good for Shun, and the legs have the most ACC we can get in that slot. Nothing to write home about.

I was wondering about the CD over the WD thanks! Also thanks for clarifying the sets; I was thinking the CRT set was for HI. I didn’t think TA would affect Metsu, as I said the math behind the TA Double and quad always eludes me >.>

My area in doing the DPS calculation is lacking, but I do enjoy organizing it in a presentational manner. If someone update what gears should be used for an AVG ACC set and a HIGH ACC set (please stick to two Melee sets) I will use it as a reference and improve the thread.

1. Please include the following misc:
AVG ACC WS set and HIGH ACC WS set for Hi and Shun (Im going to eliminate Metsu to make the thread more simplistic and be more about wielding Izunas).

2. An evasive tanking set.

Also, how do i create a box that mention items as spoiler, so that way the community see the thread very short (considering in applying for sets that is useful for the job, but might not as attention grabbing as DPS set).

Here are reference on how I would update the thread:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46390/nenekirimaru-april-2015-set/
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46320/alluvion-bow-set-april-2015/

For wsing you just count one da as 0.01 http://ftp. One ta is 0.02 http://ftp. One qa is 0.03 http://ftp. Because an extra attack adds 1 http://ftp.

But. Ta cannot activate on qa hits and da on qa or ta. So if you're wearing windbuffet belt +1 and a brutal earring, you get 0.06 ftp from the qa, and 0.04*0.98 ta (the .98 is removing the 2% qa activation rate) and 0.05*0.96 ftp (.96 is removing the 2% qa and 2% ta activation rates) from the brutal earring.

Make sense?

The full set is awful. Gloves for magic bursting, hat is good for differing amounts of haste or when you don't need acc and can use innin, shoes for utsusemi, body... Is sometimes good but I'm not going into it lol. Legs just always suck.

I think theres an issue with spreadsheet recognizing AGI as Blade: Hi's Modifier. Tested wearing both Garuda/Garuda +1 and i get the same results.

It's working correctly here. Are you using Mote's, and what target / buffs?

That's the one.

Also, i'm having difficulty with Marches, its not having an effect on DPS.

I don't recognize that link. It may be somebody had taken Mote's and modified it. I use Calc, so I can't check.

This is the one you want.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0A0wGYYRRdaZjdlNTdkNTEtMDMyYy00OTVmLWI4N2ItNDMwMDI1N2VkYWZk&usp=sharing#list

You'll have to check the "Other Lists" tab, and make sure Blade: Hi has a 5.0 modifier. I'm pretty sure it was 4.0 when Mote last updated it. Otherwise it's missing gear, but that's easy to add yourself.

Thank you, I will work on this later on tonight.

Might want to make sure you aren't already capping magic haste. Are you using a geo in your spreadsheet?

Yes and No...I just don't see why Metsu is effected by TA as it is a single hit WS even if the animation shows more.

In truth I am just not good at the logic I am OK with that, I love play nin over anything that's what i think counts. Thanks for your incite!

Where do you think DW comes into play, in your Calculations, Or is all your setups for always having high HASTE, or just DD, and not tanking when needed?
I changed my build just to be situational rather then just DD, as I have found no matter what I do. I am going to pull hate from a PLD in any BCNM. Unless I am missing allot and I don't.

Now mind you I also see the logic in haven TA+2 ...SO
I also Created 2 pcs with TA+2 and will make more when i have more stones to swap in when I get to haste cap. As i know as my haste goes up I need less DW in play. Unless I am wrong.

Thanks for any input you have or anyone from the community may have!

No matter how many hits are originally in a ws, it can always have extra hits added to it by the proccing of a multi-attack trait, or simply from the offhand hit(when dual wielding).

In fact, unless you're not using an offhand weapon, Metsu is technically always two-hits, because when dual wielding weaponskills always get an extra hit from the off-hand weapon.

I dont think GEO buffs werent applied to the spreadsheet, but will make a new one with another spreadsheet

Ok that I understand thanks!

Dual wield is only for TPing, it has no affect on WS's. How it works is that it's just applied after haste to your new delay. Like if my weapons both had a delay of 50, and I had 25% in haste on my gear (25% is the cap, but you need 26% to reach it, because haste is actually worth slightly less than advertised) and then I cast haste on my self from my WHM mule, and I had 35% Dual wield (99 NIN has 35% to start),
it would look like this;
50+50=100 (base delay)
25+15=40 (% haste)
1-.40=.6 (haste)
1-.35= .65 (dual wield)
(100*.6)*.65= 39 (new delay)

It is not
25+15+35=75
1-.75=.25
100*.25= 25

Now knowing this, I'll tell you reaching the 80% total delay reduction cap is the second most important thing for DPS while TPing. High accuracy is first, after all, it doesnt matter how fast you swing if you miss most of the time. You should shoot for 93%+ Accuracy (95% is cap), then cap delay reduction, then go for extra attacks/STP/ATT, any of those can be better depending on the amount added and the amount you already have and what you're fighting.

Not for mainhand!

At low levels of delay and sufficient levels of accuracy, further decreasing delay can outweigh increasing accuracy.


You can compare the benefit of a known amount of accuracy vs. a known delay:
Accuracy(2)/Accuracy(1)=Delay(2)/Delay(1)

Ex: Is it worth it to cap accuracy from 90% if it would increase your delay from .2 to .24?

Accuracy(2)/Accuracy(1) = .99/.9 = 1.1
Delay(2)/Delay(1) = .24/.2 = 1.2

Nope.

You're comparing the point where acc is worth the least vs when delay reduction is worth the most. Which I accounted for in my post by specifying acc of around 93% as being the cut off point for acc being better... So thanks for mathing out my point with a graph the person probably won't understand since they specifically asked for dumbed down answers? Lol

When did this happen? Its like the game was actually updated while I didn't play for 3 years. All this new stuff to learn...

It was updated to reach up to 99% to increase Dancer's Step JA accuracy.

It was raised during a patch where they tried to make onehand jobs more competitive. The same patch that made Rudra broken as ***.
Onehanded jobs now can go up to 99% accuracy, but only for the mainhand weapon (if they're dualwielding, of course).
This applies to NIN as well.


Oh btw my very personal opinion on the reforged Empyrean. Just mental masturbation because I didn't math/tested anything, so probably a lot of bias.
I think all of the set is pretty meh and has very little use if you have very good augments on Taeon. There's very little to add to this, if you have good Taeon augs, there's not much you can pull out from the reforged empy set aside form situational small things.

If for some (stupid) reason you didn't bother with farming or augmenting Taeon though, the set looks quite different.
Body becomes one of the best WS options (for Hi, at least) and a decent TP piece for situations where you don't want to use DW (wonder if it beats Thaumas...).
Head is likely the BiS for situations where you DO want DW (low haste etc) and regardless of that it opens up new options in other slots.
Especially if you're riding on Innin it might become even more useful (does the DA bonus needs Innin to be active as a buff, or does it need you to be behind as well like all other Innin related stuff?)
Legs are a pretty nice Accuracy option, they might get other uses in sets where you don't want DW in the legs slot. (altough there are other nice options already for that, like augmented Quiahuiz Trousers)
Hands are a nuke item and potentially nice accuracy item. Maybe good for Shun as well.
Feet are very disappointing instead.



Anyway question: which legs do you use for Blade: Shun? If Taeon, which augments?
Atm I'm using... uh... Manibohzo :(

Honestly I stopped using shun before I started gearing my character well. Its a safe bet taeon with ta 2 ac/at 20 and dex 10 or str/dex 7 will be best though. I doubt there's enough of a difference between d or s and d to care which you get though. Unless there's some other pants somewhere with 20 dex and a bunch of attack? I don't actually know about all the available gear yet, and its difficult to find any sort of lists. But you'd need like 20 dex and 20 attack for something else to be better.

I updated Melee and Blade: Hi for now. Spreadsheet are based on the following:

Buff:
March X2
Minuet V
Chaos Roll
Fighter's Roll

Mobs:
Tojil
Serac Rabbit

No ilevel pants have DEX aside from Manibozho and some other JS equipment (like Hesychast Hose for MNK, a few more).

Kinda sucks for DEX based WSs (Rudra, Evisceration, Shun etc)


Shun used to be a very good alternative to Hi, on average worse but situationally better.
That was before Taeon set came out though. Given the amount of CritHit/Cdamage you can get on Taeon, Hi should now be always be better than Shun no matter what.
(that is: if you got those Taeon piece and those augments, of course)

Shun should probably beat hi if you can negate the attack penalty with enough attack buffs and defense down effects. Also assuming crit rate isn't going above 70% wsd beats crit damage for blade hi in equal amounts until you get a lot of wsd (even with 3 on all and 5 on cape wsd is still better.) That's why wsd on taeon and crit damage on Izuna (4wsd vs 5cd on taikogane)

The underlined sentence is true: I cherry picked a value. However, we can do much better than arbitrarily picking 93% as a break even point (it's not) with minimal effort.

Notation: There's no good way to write a derivative in a forum post, so I'll use Wolfram Alpha's notation: D[f(x),x] denotes the derivative of f, a function of x, with respect to x.

Define: A = accuracy percentage, 0.2 <= A <= 0.99 (or 0.95 when appropriate)
Define: R = reduced delay, 0.2 <= R < 1

Damage per second = A * Average melee hit / ( R * Weapon delay ) = c*A/R

We care about two values: the derivative of Damage per second with respect to A, and with respect to R.

D[Damage per second(A,R),A] = D[c*A/R,A] = c/R

D[Damage per second(A,R),R] = D[c*A/R,R] = -cA/R^2

To find the point where increasing accuracy exactly balances decreasing delay, we set the two derivatives equal to each other. Note that since we care about the case where delay is decreasing, we use the negative of the derivative with respect to R.

When accuracy balances delay:
D[c*A/R,A] = -D[c*A/R,R]
c/R = cA/R^2
R = A

When accuracy outweighs delay:
D[c*A/R,A] > -D[c*A/R,R]
c/R > cA/R^2
R > A

Conclusion: Since this is a ninja forum, your delay reduction will never be less than 0.35, but you'd have to try pretty hard not to cap haste, so we'll say 0.4875.

R = 1 - 0.4875 = 0.5125
Therefore, in the case where it is most useful relative to further decreasing delay, Accuracy will outweigh decreasing delay when:
Accuracy < 51.25%

I think you missed the most important thing here Vow;