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All I see out of this drivel is that you haven't had your coffee yet this morning.

My comment wasn't directed towards those uncontrollable circumstances having to do with auto-attacks after the fact, but more towards those who just can't handle all aspects of how the Thinker and other Omen NM's function. Instead, they'd just rather have everything removed altogether so we as a collective can get back to the standard zerg fest we've all been accustomed to.

So a nerf to uncontrollable mechanics that penalize intelligent gear and overall play style is met with "Whaaaaaaaaaaaambulance"? Did you see anyone asking for the sum total of nerfs that are being applied? Did you miss the resounding chorus of people who said "any one of those nerfs would've been fine, but all of them together is silly"?

Your comment was nonsensical at best and HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE at worst, as I said. Taking an assumed position of superiority of a situation of chance with a quantifiable increasing probability of adverse outcome with increasing gear quality is just ............ buddo.

Even with the proposed adjustments, it would still be possible to wreck your group with an unlucky multi attack. They should have just delayed the damage aggregator for 1 second and extended Pain Sync ready time by 1 second. Would have retained a similar level of difficulty but made it less luck based.

All this pyscho-babble makes zero sense based on the context of my statement.

The fact of the matter is there was nothing wrong with how the Thinker functioned prior to SE nerfing the NM. It just required more strategic game play aside from wipes still happening on occasion.

Your "Resounding Chorus" translates to fanboys on the OF who cry about everything difficult that generally results in our favorite jobs getting nerfed (ie: adjusted). So presumably since you're intentionally misreading the context of my statement, I'm going to assume you're part of the noise that compels SE to break things that aren't broken.

This is all I'm saying on the matter.

Not disagreeing with you, but knowing with absolute certainty that a second Pain Sync won't happen unless another, different TP moves gets executed after that, gives players an interesting margin of control over the fight, no?

Like you backface that until you see pain sync, after that you know you can go all out until you see another TP move, after which you just wait for pain sync blahblah.
I'm simplifying of course, but this is how I imagined the fight to flow after the adjustments to come?

The 100>40 damage conversion too kinda reduces the odds of bad luck procs to wipe your group accidentally, while not completely removing it.


I dunno, overall when I first read it I can't claim what they did will be the best possible solution (as you already explained) but it's still something that sounded ok to me?

So basically, you didn't read any of the threads here, including this one, nor what I actually wrote. I wish there was a granite emoji here.

I've never read a thread on the OF that wasn't bug-related, fwiw.

If a few unlucky multi-attacks can wipe a group and waste time, then it's reasonable to say that there is an issue with its current functionality.

Wrong. Even if you had an addon turned you as soon as the client allows after receiving the Pain Sync ready packet, it would still be possible to wipe from auto attacks because of how server latency works. That is a problem.

The adjustments will make the fight more viable for sure. Just saying that there was a better solution (at least imo.)

I'm not disagreeing with this at all. I've been in my fair share of wipes due to Pain Sync regardless of what the cause(s) were. I'm also not disagreeing that something probably needed to be done regarding the TP move itself - more specific its ability to do it back to back within an unreasonable time frame.

My personal views on the matter is aside from how SE designed that particular TP move, we learned to still defeat that NM regardless of the mechanics pre-nerf. All the nerf did was allow us an even easier way to basically mini-zerg it (carefully) thus partially removing any design element SE had in mind when they created that anti-zerg TP move in the first place.

The entire point of my original statement wasn't to put anyone down but to emphasize a growing problem regarding a specific portion of the player base who are unable to do today's end game unless it's on easy mode (which much of it already is). Instead of learning how to work around the gimmick(s) and/or mechanics of the specific NM, it seems we collectively throw our hands in the air and cry out for an adjustment.

Unless this upcoming adjustment has to do with Canteen timers or treasure, I now have to wonder what else regarding Fu, Kin, Kyou, Kei and Gin was so horrible that it warranted further nerfing.

Nerfing pain sync is an indirect nerf to NIN! :P

Also DRG Super Jump and Pet jobs!

(Not picking sides just lightening the mood)

"escutcheons!"

Crafting relics!? 8D

Talking about Floor 3 bosses, not trying to claim anything given the incredibly small sample, just wanting to share as a mean to laugh about it.

Out of ~25 (maybe 26?) Omen runs I met:
1x Gorger
4x Craver
Rest were Thinker.

People who run with me swear I'm cursed and bring thinker-luck to the party lol

+/- a bit this was our experience too.

And we originally learned that if BLMs stood at one spot and the PLD's ran back and forth at another, we could glitch AV's AI into getting stuck in a corner and defeat it.

Doesn't change the fact that it was broken.


No, *** no.

Attempting to zerg down pain sync in any fashion is a guaranteed wipe. Even at 40% damage return a buffed DD or RNG would generate enough damage to easily wipe anyone standing nearby. The only way to "zerg" this is with SMN's and only because they are cheesing it and completely avoiding the mechanic anyway. This update just allows non-SMN setups to fight Thinker without a debilitating handicap.

I was forced to switch to Sword / Shield when fighting Thinker because one of my attack's alone can randomly do ~6K which is enough to wipe anyone even in max DT gear. If I proc a multi-attack, which I do 74% of the time, between the time the NM readies the move on the server and the time I get the packet saying it is, then it's practically guaranteed to wipe us. And Jesus help us if anyone hits their WS macro during that period. So instead I use Sword/Board so that my auto-attacks only deal 800~1K each, which is survivable in DT gear, and only use Savage Blade when the NM is using a move that's not Pain Sync. At low HP I end up turning for a single attack round then turning my back to see if it's going to do a TP move. Having to deal with it's TP spam under 30%, which is primeval brew level regain, slows the fight down to a crawl.

So yeah something had to be done to make the fight a little less luck based and more skill orientated.

Now let the haters roll forward...

That's why I said "mini-zerg" and yeah, using SMN is definitely "cheesing" it because it's not technically front line job. We do our Omen runs differently with different setups so maybe our strategies vary.

Does this sound about right?

Sorry, but using SMN or RNG isn't cheesing it anymore than a WAR busting out the "cheese button" to get an Ambuscade NM killed quickly. It doesn't offer any additional benefits other than less people wiping from an accident or mistake (ie: Tank and GEO).

So now we see the real issue Ava has with the update

What issue? You never saw me on the OF crying to have the Thinker butchered.

We're clearing Omen multiple times a day regardless what SE does to "adjust".

That you don't like it that others can now defeat the same content as you with less pain. Or more specifically that groups not including SMN, or groups that use multiple setups to get everyone cards on their jobs, might be just as effective on a NM that unintentionally favored SMN over anything else, including other pet jobs.

So while it's perfectly fine for the MB's to have dramatically different behaviors that discourage one setup or another, it's not fine for a mini-boss that you don't have control over to be that way.

As for SMN, you use SMN's because it lets you completely ignore the vast majority of the difficulty mechanics built into all the content. Essentially your typing in "U U D D L R L R A B [Start][Select], and then getting angry when the developers make it easier for those not typing in that code. It's not a new argument and one that every group using the equivalent of cheat codes has used throughout FFXI's history. I've been around long enough that I've seen that exact same argument pop up anytime content is scaled back to not dramatically favor one set of people.

Saying *OMG they are nerfing content that I use a cheat code to get through* kinda doesn't make you look very good.

NIN can straight zerg it, the only job class that has a difficulty is some DDs, and that's really mostly if you use empy on it. Lady has been doing well on it with THF. Mages also do just fine on it.

I'm also against dumbing down content and agree too often the community asks for nerfs instead of using the tools available to them but I think something did have to be done to make it easier on most DD jobs, especially when animation locks come into play. That said, slow strats with tact roll exist if you wanted to be totally safe about it. It's a slow kill even on TF ranger or SMN because you have to wait for the tp move to go off then do damage unless you want to deal with having your tanks wipe and recover multiple times a fight, which in itself is risky and slows down the fight.

I'm fine with the adjustments as long as it doesn't dumb it down so much people don't even have to "think" about it anymore, that's the gimmick the nm. I think people will still have to pay attention so I'm ok with it.

I've demonstrated none of what you're saying here, ever. And being that you're in the same LS as I, you know this. I come on what job(s) I'm asked to come - plain and simple. I've never once bitched about any job having their time in the lime light.

You have WAR and not SMN. I have SMN and not WAR. Are either of us better than each other? No, and I've never implied such a thing ever, nor do I care if one or the other job pulls ahead with specific content.

You (and only you) keep saying this, but where's the actual implication that the bosses are being changed too?


edit: I hope escutcheons plural is referring to the upgrade stages and not 8 different shields of "this craft only +3"

I think before they mentioned each craft was getting one. Though rough plans change but I totally see them doing that so they can still claim the lotto winners still got something slightly better

Also lol at the last couple pages of this thread. Holy heck someone's jimmies are rustled

barf, I want my t2 cursed schuhs synth damn it

No more dial campaigns huh... Might be time to cancel the mule army

Actually... I play
WAR/DRK/BLU/RUN/RDM for Omen depending on our setup and who wants cards on what. My GEO is also on standby to be used if our normal GEO's want to come on something else. I'm also preping my RNG to be used as a backup in case our normal RNG can't attend. Our exact setup varies dramatically between the different NM's and we try to be as inclusive as possible. I need cards on multiple jobs, as does everyone else in our group, so we rotate stuff around.

Omen NM's are designed to be fought using different strategies, it's actually a lot of fun if a group does this. There is definitely a design problem with a T3 mini-boss is harder then all the Mega Boss's unless you bring a bunch of SMN's to ignore it's mechanics.

cross finguer to adjust enfee to reach a little more what GEO can do.