I'll try to find a cactus to test metallic body on tonight.
bubble curtain being mdt means I only need 37% -dt in pet -pdt set to cap -mdt also when bubble curtain is up.
Looks like scissor guard is 1 min to 3 min duration, I'm willing bet bubble curtain is the same. Should be able to keep all 3x defensive buffs up on a 1 min recast at 1000 TP if that is the case. will have greater tp after engaging, so more flexibility for other moves during the fight.
Which means pet will probably take 0 Damage all the time. Which means that potentially CE will never reduce due to damage...
The difficulty will be timing ready moves and spells.
Does enmity reduce when monsters hit stoneskin and do 0 damage?
The next challenge is mp for /blu. Escha zones wouuld be a non-issue, but otherwise optimal cor rolls would be companion and evoker's rolls. can't idle in bst's minimal refresh gear and keep pet -dt maxed out. or refresh bubble. those are most likely in a pet party. but refresh support is definitely needed for /blu.
/run is an option. throwing pflug, vallation and swordplay all at once and snarling is certainly much faster than spells for claiming hate on pet, but upkeep is much more challenging. 3 ~5 min recast timers don't allow for much. Flash is single target on 1 min recast timer. The main niche I'm seeing here is Group Tanking in a pet party. single targets, pup is plenty reliable.
/pld is pretty terrible for getting enmity on pet. not much is AoE hate, and what is is mostly VE instead of CE. CE is much more valuable for pet tanking because of the extreme damage reduction.
/war is an option, but its all VE instead of CE. you can constantly provoke and snarl on the same timer, but whats the point in using single target tools.
I think I would only every try this w/ /blu or /run, the /run I'd probably want cor to random deal right after, so I can use JA again for building enmity.
Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
|
Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
Yeah that was the idea. Being the only way to cap mdt and doing so easily and hardly losing hate.
Sounds about right iirc it was actually duration testing that first clued us into base tp floor on ready testing since we kept getting duration scaling that didn't start till higher tps. Only ways of losing hate without taking dmg besides various jas are getting hit while manawall is up, shadow loss and hit with a debuff. /blu is probably the best just in terms of how much you can gain and how consistently you can keep going. AoE hate moves aren't necessarily needed for what you are thinking about. Tagging mobs and then doing a bunch of buff/cure based enmity would work as well for the jobs that have that anyways. Speaking of which if you are worried about mp concerns /brd could work. And if you got enough people to buff can stay farther away most the time. clearlyamule said: » /blu is probably the best just in terms of how much you can gain and how consistently you can keep going. AoE hate moves aren't necessarily needed for what you are thinking about. Tagging mobs and then doing a bunch of buff/cure based enmity would work as well for the jobs that have that anyways. Speaking of which if you are worried about mp concerns /brd could work. And if you got enough people to buff can stay farther away most the time. /blu you don't get any self buff spells. full level blu has some good hate-generating buff/cure spells. you get a few weak healing spells though. I'm not at all familiar with /brd. Sounds interesting. I'm looking thru the songs. It looks like there may be enough to work. They have lower enmity gain than the /blu spells, but short casting time, and of course no mp concerns. I actually don't even have brd leveled to 49 or have any singing/instrument skill whatsoever. I don't really understand the healing enmity gain, and if its significant enough to be useful on /whm /rdm or /sch. It would be great! Those mage subs are very useful even outside pet tanking, but I haven't been able to identify any useful hate generating tools. Divine Seal > Cure 4 only works 1x. Sublimation thru sch is especially good for mp management. refresh from /rdm would not be enough. Right but other jobs that don't have AoE hate do. Hence why you don't necessarily need AoE hate moves like /blu does. It's more of an either or thing.
Most of the /brd enmity has been nerfed but the sleep spells are fine and even buffs are okish if you hitting 6 assuming you doing the build up to never losing hate thing. Skill isn't really necessary since lol at the songs doing anything. It might good. It's fallen out of favor because of a lot of the dmg enmity nerfs got reflected into that and pld can just spam flash and other stuff. And mage tanking isn't really a thing anymore and mages have tranquil heart :(. Also they kept changing it and so retesting got annoying when they'd change it again Oh went back and looked at your enmity and yeah from what I could see there is a decent chance it's just aggro enmity in action. yeah, I tested again tonight w/ someone else pulling the mob, and me doing the same test. The mob hits me 1x then turns to pet.
/sigh disappointed. It should still work for pet party, but probably nothing else. thank you for the /brd idea. should be useful. especially for ambuscade group tanking. can spend the beginning just cycling all the etude's, then try to claim w/ horde lullaby and snarl it off. do you get more enmity from brd songs when you hit more targets? AoE buff/cure enmity is, outside of cura I think, always counted per target effected assuming that target is in range. That's part of why AoE buffs can be awesome or meh. Like that meh 20 CE becomes 120 and such. Mazurka used to be a few hundred CE from what I remember so was a semi popular subjob for nin tanks until they nerfed that too
clearlyamule said: » AoE buff/cure enmity is, outside of cura I think, always counted per target effected assuming that target is in range. That's part of why AoE buffs can be awesome or meh. Like that meh 20 CE becomes 120 and such. Mazurka used to be a few hundred CE from what I remember so was a semi popular subjob for nin tanks until they nerfed that too Cactrot Veloz ??? needles did 800 damage to 3x trusts, 400 to August and 191 to Aged Angus.
the only pet -dt was Stout Servent at 9% This puts Stoneskin from metallic body at 536 HP I submitted the pet enmity gear behavior on se forums as a bug. that is, that its not effective for pet buffing ready moves or snarl.
they put it in the accepted bugs list. who knows if it will amount to anything. here's hoping. I'm a bit unclear on the /brd enmity Does it still work that way w/ multiple buffing targets or no? Did they remove the multi-target enmity increase, or did they simply lower the enmity of bard songs to what it is now? Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: » I submitted the pet enmity gear behavior on se forums as a bug. that is, that its not effective for pet buffing ready moves or snarl. they put it in the accepted bugs list. who knows if it will amount to anything. here's hoping. I'm a bit unclear on the /brd enmity Does it still work that way w/ multiple buffing targets or no? Did they remove the multi-target enmity increase, or did they simply lower the enmity of bard songs to what it is now? Unless they changed the nerf, there is still a per-target enmity increase, but the base enmity was nerfed to the floor. No idea on exact values per target, but it is definitely not enough to stay at the number 2 spot on the hate list just by spamming buff songs. The per target thing is just how the game works with all buffs. It's why people love stuff like warcry and such for quick boost or why people were bitching about pulling hate with things like protectra/shellra until they nerfed those to almost nothing. It's also what made blu/pld ridiculous for initial hate. Exuviation is 640/640 per target lol. Note the targets have to be on the hate list for it to count. I believe for something like ambuscade initial aggro is sufficient based on how mobs behave but not sure about if you die and don't get it back.
They just nerfed the hell out of mazurka and then I'm like 90% sure they nerfed everything else when people started complaining about buffs getting them hate more recently Having trouble finding old values but I could swear mazurka was over 100 CE per target a decent more VE and even random other buffs were more like 40CE. I've given up getting excited about bugs being accepted. Between there being ones that have been accepted for over 4 years to actually catching them moving some from accepted to other sections like resolved or not a bug or not enough info when there was a ton and burying so far in those threads you pretty much wouldn't even know it got moved unless you were watching that report a good year after it was made yeah, I'm not really excited, just mildly hopeful.
What is /brd song range?
Okay, this problem has been bugging me a bit for awhile.
Beastmaster TP Sets The reason it bothers me so much is because when solo'ing I'm almost always on the cusp of occasionally being able to self-skillchian (master only) and sometimes not. Its more reliable ofcourse, w/ am3 up from Primal Rend. Also, Falkirk trusted my earlier testing w/ TP sets and put Tali'ah Manteel +2 and Meghanada Chauses +2 in the buffed tp set. However I made a mistake there. I was caught up on the term in the spreadsheet: Rounds/WS and I wanted to minimize that. This favors Store TP to delay reduction. You can get much better fantastic numbers in this term and have no haste and you won't be self-skillchaining. The term I was missing which is just as important is Total Cycle Time. I'm not exactly sure what unit of measure the cycle time is. If 613 Cycle time is 6.13 seconds I'd be happy, but at least lower is better and it gives grounds to compare. Also, another poster kept using Emicho Gauntlets +1 in tp set and I foolishly reccommended using Taeon DW feet instead. So I've done alot of comparing on where to get the haste a dual wield. My current set uses Taeon Feet w/ 9% dual wield and Eabani earring for a total of 13%. Dual Wield delay reduction is considered before haste, so it really does hurt your tp gain to go over cap in Dual wield (or martial arts for that matter) compared to your haste. The wonderful little dual wield cheat sheet on bg-wiki shows that w/ capped magical haste (easily done w/ trusts when solo) and capped gear haste (easily done for along time now) you want 11% dual wield to cap delay reduction. (I know I'm repeating what most people here know, but I want to be thorough to avoid miscommunication.) I'm using the BST DPS spreadsheet ofcourse. Which I know there are some problems with the weaponskills damage calculations still. I'm probably not up to correcting the spreadsheet that way. I've spent some time going in circles on that already. However, i'm focused on TP sets atm, because I hate being just a tad too slow to self skillchain and I like the options it gives to have pet close the double darkness or double light, or bust magical damage. TLDR these are the best variations on a tp set for maxed magical and gear haste, but no JA haste. all argosy +1 are augment path D. Emicho Gauntlets +1 are Path D for dual wield. The one with Reiki Yotai is every so slightly better, but the difference is completely miniscule. I should note that you can actually beat both of these sets EVER so slightly with Haverton Ring +1 and suppanomimi for dual wield, then Windbuffet belt +1 in the waist slot. However, I don't know a bst who would trade Thurandaut Ring +1 for Haverton +1 if they are serious enough about bst to gear this well. It might be an option for those bst who are much more serious about other jobs and prefer Haverton ring +1 ItemSet 351982 ItemSet 359177 What makes Argosy +1 D set so good ofcourse is the combination of large amounts of Store TP and Double Attack in the set. Meghanada and Tali'ah +2 pieces have alot of Triple attack, but no Store TP. in these sets you have close to 50% DA and 50 StoreTP at this level the difference between Anu Torque and Asperity Necklace is miniscule. Speaking of Offhand weapons for tp building, I found a couple interesting options. Ironically the fastest TP building option I found is Twilight Knife. I know its rediculously underleveled and Acc is probably a serious problem. But the Qad Attack and low delay from Dagger makes a big Difference. Other Winners include using Malevolence for lower delay/bigger magical WS damage and Hatxiik (or Hunahpu) for the OA2. These off-hand weapon options make a big difference in getting that tp. I don't really have the calculations to compare Raetic Axe +1 or Blurred Axe +1 for off-hand. and I'm not sure if Raetic works for offhand. what is the OAx for Blurred axe +1? However, if you are like me, you probably want Charmer's Merlin for more ready moves or Arktoi for that master/pet acc and Killer Effects. The above sets should get you to self-skillchaining even without the faster offhand weapons. Making a 5~6 step skillchain and ending on the right move means alot more for damage in most situations. BST can awesomely do all 4 level 2 property skillchains and even a few options for level 3 Darkness or Tri-Edge Umbra. I want to peak a bit more at potential valorous Augments, and search for other options which combine store tp and multi-attack, but for now, these 2 sets are BiS, imo. Edit: you can swap all the Argosy +1 D path gear in the Emicho hands set with Valorous armor, IF you get perfect 8 Store TP and 5 DA on all 4 Valorous Pieces. It will be slightly better than the other sets, but I don't have any faith in getting such augments. Hi guys, working on my BST. Wondering what pets are typically used in CP party's, mostly in a duo pt with my SMN alt I need to finish.
So far, in most cases where I have seen (and CP'd BST myself) they would use Bouncing Bertha and AOE large herds of mobs in Reisenjima.
[+]
pet depends alot on how you are killing ofcourse.
Bertha is pretty good for Physical damage AoE kills, but 2 charge moves are a bit slower. magical AoE is usually Warlike Patrick or Headbreaker ken. You need a decent pet mab set to take good advantage of this. Bst can be one of the best AoE killing jobs in the game. if you doing single target kills it probably depends on your party and skillchain setup. if you have party members making a darkness skillchain, I might suggest either FleetReinherd or FluffyBredo. Reinhard can close with a powerful double darkness in Chomp Rush, and Bredo can Burst quite well with pestilent plume and Foul Waters. Pestilent plume actually lowers mob MDB, so its great for burst parties. all the nukers will do more damage. Its like having geo-Malaise up, though a geo can be more powerful. A crab blizzard bursting party would benefit from FluffyBredo. However, every time I've been in crab party on bst, they wanted Warlike Patrick to make quick'n easy Impaction skillchains to burst thunder off. If you are single-killing solo, I might suggest Warlike Patrick as the easiest pet to make long skillchains with. He can make at least a 4 step by himself which you can turn into a 6 step with Calamity at the beginning and Cloudsplitter at the end. If there is no particular skillchain because you have many party members just letting loose, (they are not willing or able to coordinate) I suggest either BlackbeardRandy or GenerousArthur. Randy will have the best single hit physical damage with Razor Fang, and Generous Arthur has the best party buff with Corrosive ooze giving -33% def and attack to the mobs. That is the best def down move outside Idris Geo Frailty. Corrosive ooze is also one of the better magical damage moves, though it is slow for how many charges it requires. game's situational
[+]
Thanks a lot for the info!
Pestilent Plume MDB doesn't stack with Malaise correct?
Also when is Calamity used over Mistral Axe? Are BiS pieces really argosy +1 for Calamity and not some pieces that can add a bunch of VIT alongside high STR and attack? mobs have a standard MDB of 100. Only some NM's may be different. If you take them down TO 50 from an Idris Geo, or bolster, then it won't stack because you've hit the cap. re-wording for clarity. Pestilent Plume and Malaise will stack. However it may or may not be beneficial. The Floor for mob MDB is 50. The default for almost all monsters is 100. From BG Wiki: Malaise w/ over 900 skill is -15 mdb Dunna is an addition -15 MDB Idris is additional -30 MDB So idris geo is already flooring mob MDB even without bolster. However, a non Idris Geo is only hitting -30 MDB The -25 MDB from Pestilent Plume will finish flooring the mob. I'm pretty sure some NM's have greater than 100 MDB. Certainly and Run or Whm type mobs will. In this case, there is more opportunity to gain greater effect by stacking Malaise and Pestilent Plume. /edit Mistral Axe scales better than Calamity with higher TP. So probably higher than 2000 TP, though that's more of a guess. At Low TP Calamity does more damage. I primarily use Calamity when it fits the skillchain. Mistral Axe is generally more useful for skilclhains. BST is pretty awesome for skilchains in that we have all 4 Level 2 skillchain properties on axe weaponskills. combined w/ ready moves and there are a ton of options. Ankusa +3 gear should beat out Argosy for Calamity for any slot w/out WSD%... which is all but hands. Then again, i don't think the bst dps spreadsheet is quite right, even though I've updated the WS formulas. I'm not really sure how to fix it or make sure its accurate. Its still the best we have. edit again for clarity: 1. The BST DPS spreadsheet, has a few notable mistakes. First, the lookup function for set 2 weaponskill does not find VIT correctly. This currently only affects the Calamity weaponskill, but throws errors instead of actual number results. It is not hard to work around using only set 1 for changes and comparison. 2. I've noticed that when I change from magic ws to physical ws, Friomisi earring is still boosting weaponskill damage. This indicates to me there is some problem with the formulas. Not hard to work around, but it doesn't inspire confidence. 3. Comparing damage estimates from 1 weaponskill to another does not accurately reflect power relationships in game. For example, in the Spreadsheet, Calamity appears to do less damage at 1000 tp than mistral axe using the same gear sets. In the game I see the opposite relationship. This hurts confidence in the overall weaponskill formulas in the spreadsheet. having problems with lua i wrote.
cant seem to get single wield and DW idle activated separately. sets.idle is for whm sets.idle.DW is for nin dnc but the dw set part isn't activating when idle when i switch jobs. the engaged and engaged.dw works fine. but just the sets.idle.dw isnt adding a axe to the shield spot when nin dnc. can anyone lmk what to do? Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: » 3. Comparing damage estimates from 1 weaponskill to another does not accurately reflect power relationships in game. For example, in the Spreadsheet, Calamity appears to do less damage at 1000 tp than mistral axe using the same gear sets. In the game I see the opposite relationship. This hurts confidence in the overall weaponskill formulas in the spreadsheet. clearlyamule said: » Well based on the ws stats we have mistral should normally win. What gear sets... or how much vit, str, multiattack, wsd, weapons you use? And against what targets? Also know that most of you just straight up use the spreadsheets wrong. Not uncommon to find mistakes in spreadsheets. And, it's AVERAGE ws damage. And set parameters aren't accurate to playstyle (going at exactly 1000 tp overtp rounds etc) "capped attack" can't stress this one enough. most of you assume you're just attack capped on literally everything. kishr said: » having problems with lua i wrote. cant seem to get single wield and DW idle activated separately. sets.idle is for whm sets.idle.DW is for nin dnc but the dw set part isn't activating when idle when i switch jobs. the engaged and engaged.dw works fine. but just the sets.idle.dw isnt adding a axe to the shield spot when nin dnc. can anyone lmk what to do? i suggest going to the gearswap support thread and definitely positing a link to your lua on pastebin or github or something. no one can tell you wants wrong w/ your lua if they don't see it. clearlyamule said: » Well based on the ws stats we have mistral should normally win. What gear sets... or how much vit, str, multiattack, wsd, weapons you use? And against what targets? I'm using the same set for Calamity and Mistral Axe. ItemSet 359557 Artio is STR/WSD Argosy is A for Feet, D for body/hands/legs There is no VIT on Argosy Pieces, which is part of why I'd expect Mistral to be significantly ahead. but it is not. Spreadsheet has it AVERAGING about 2.3k damage more than Calamity. Thats very significant in theory, but I'm really not seeing it in practice. I have not made a diligent test. but often when fighting (usually solo w/ trusts) I'll switch between mistral and calamity to see which does better damage. Its usually calamity. I'm not being meticulous about how much TP I have. its just a general experience item. I Intend to swap in all the Ankusa +2/3 for gear for Calamity when I finish upgrading them. otherwise I don't see good options that have good str and vit combinations. Asura.Eiryl said: » Also know that most of you just straight up use the spreadsheets wrong. Not uncommon to find mistakes in spreadsheets. And, it's AVERAGE ws damage. And set parameters aren't accurate to playstyle (going at exactly 1000 tp overtp rounds etc) "capped attack" can't stress this one enough. most of you assume you're just attack capped on literally everything. I debated w/ myself of whether to reply to you or not. But hey, I rather consider the bst forums my territory. Not that I own it, but I live here and try to get along w/ everyone here. Are you trying to belittle me for contributing? Cuz you seem to wanna stand on an imaginary pedastal and tell dumb little me that I'm doin it wrong, when you don't know what I'm doin. There is no substance at all in your nebulous ridicule. all you say is: your doing it wrong you don't understand what an average is you don't understand how attack contributes to WS damage formulas 'cept you aren't even finding out what I'm doing! you just ASSume! You don't offer anything. If you want any Cred, you have to show what you know and I don't. Otherwise, your just blowing rancid hot air out your favorite orifice. Don't have base stats but some rough math says yeah Mistral should still be doing a good 2k more with AM3 down 1.2k more with it up at capped attack. So not just the spreadsheet.
Could be a fair amount of eyeballing, something wonky or some ws stats are wrong. Luckily full numbers were posted in the old ws retesting thread... unfortunately think pdif was updated since then so I'll recheck those numbers a bit later. Exact math aside the numbers on the testing thread higher average dmgs for Mistral at all tp level using the same gear that had almost same str as vit and no wsd so the gearing is even more skewed to calamity as it was I've just killed isgebind and tenzen
Isgebind 1300 tp 20k mistral axe 22k Calamity I see the same pattern all the time Tenzen its smaller cuz I was solo on D, not many buffs, (and yes, bst is VERY attack starved) but 5.2k from Mistral Axe, 5.8k from calamity. when Tenzen def super high at end of fight 2.3k mistral, 3k calamity. Yes sometimes Calamity does less damage than Mistral, BUT the clear majority of the time Calamity about 10% more damage than Mistral. could be that Calamity gets the same bonus from STR that Mistal does, but also the 50% wsc from VIT. Maybe everyone else ignoring that and only looking at the ftp I can assure you I'm accounting for both str and vit. If you didn't account for the difference in stat mods it wouldn't even be close mistral would do like twice the dmg at 1k tp
lvl 0/-1 so definitely capped fstr/pdif. Kumbhakarna/Hunahpu- so 169 mainhand dmg offhand don't matter. vit: 222. str: 254. Fstr: 26. pdif: 3.25+ 0-5%. no wsd or +ftp.
Mistral axe expected dmg: 1k tp= 3.25*4*(169+ 254*.5+26)= 4186. +5% = 4395 Actual dmg: 4259, 4330, 4210, 4309, 4342, 4338, 4223, 4376, 4288, 4379 Fits perfect. Mistral axe expected dmg: 2k tp= 3.25*10.5*(169+ 254*.5+26)= 10988. +5% = 11537 Actual dmg: 11307, 11132, 11121, 11026, 11176, 11075, 10951, 10992, 10910, 11304 Almost perfect. Honestly not sure how you could get that fraction of a percent off. Idk SE probably did something dumb like instead of 10.5 made it 10 +127/256 or something like they do with almost everything. closeenough.jpg Calamity expected dmg: 1k tp= 3.25*2.5*(169+ 254*.5+ 222*.5 +26)= 3516. +5% = 3691 Actual dmg: 3628, 3609, 3693, 3648, 3763, 3622, 3690, 3758, 3701, 3622 Another close but not quite perfect Mistral axe expected dmg: 2k tp= 3.25*6.5*(169+ 254*.5+ 222*.5 +26)= 9145. +5% = 9602 Actual dmg: 9167, 9355, 9518, 9387, 9301, 9383, 9210, 9235, 9371, 9552 Yay perfecto. So nothing seems to be amiss other than very small differences that couldn't really be anything other than weird rounding stuff. So maths should work out more than close enough. Only other thing I can think of that could potential make them that much different is weird pdif/acc issues All that said why we talking about 1k tp? At least for Mistral 1750 tp wsing should be a little more dps. Probably even more so if you gear more to ws dmg I'm not talking about 1k tp.
I did several at about 1800 tp. Could Calamity have an attack bonus? I can't say I recall other weaponskills having an attack bonus though. That would hide it from the attack capped tests. I'm not attack capped in what I'm fighting. I don't doubt your retesting, and I appreciate it, but I see a very clear pattern when I'm fighting. I was watching tp last night, and comparing the 2 weaponskills. they are close in damage. but Calamity was ahead significantly more often than Mistral Axe. Some Samples were around 1k tp, most were around 2k tp. any idea how to test for a possible attack bonus? I'd happily do the testing if I can get kparser to work, but it tends to show trusts and mobs and not gather any data, it only shows mob and trust names and never fill in data for me on 2 different pc's. |
All FFXIV and FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.