Scientists: Human activity has pushed Earth beyond four of nine ‘planetary boundaries’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/scientists-human-activity-has-pushed-earth-beyond-four-of-nine-planetary-boundaries/2015/01/15/f52b61b6-9b5e-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html
Interesting article, I wonder how much longer we have before the proverbial sh*t hits the fan?
Ten things in nature that could vanish before your kids see them
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2014/09/24/ten-things-in-nature-that-could-vanish-before-your-kids-see-them/
Scientists: Human Activity Has Pushed Earth Beyond
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Scientists: Human activity has pushed Earth beyond
Lets make more laws, regulate, and tax the hell out of more stuff, that seems to be working well.
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Ummm, it has, actually.
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I'll admit a few of the species on that second link surprised me, namely the bee, monarch butterflies, and polar bears.
I will also admit, ignorantly, that I didn't even realize we had already pushed out boundaries this far, yet.... humans suck. <.<; Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys.
Let's not muddy up this debate with such things like facts, and verifiable facts, and science. Gotta go with them Feelz, yo!
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Bloodrose said: » Whoa, whoa, whoa, guys. Let's not muddy up this debate with such things like facts, and verifiable facts, and science. Gotta go with them Feelz, yo! Quote: The researchers focused on nine separate planetary boundaries first identified by scientists in a 2009 paper. These boundaries set theoretical limits on changes to the environment, and include ozone depletion, freshwater use, ocean acidification, atmospheric aerosol pollution and the introduction of exotic chemicals and modified organisms. So, we've crossed four theoretical boundaries. Sounds like cut and dry facts to me, definitely no feelz involved. Guess I should prep my bunker.
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The facts and scientific evidence that laws, penalties, fines, and other taxes for dumping waste, have actually had a positive effect. You know, those facts.
But feel free to interpret what was said to fit such a narrow-minded narrative. Cus you know, feelz.
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Yeah, who needs ozone and water, that ***'s for pussies. Bring on Earth: Hard mode!
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Bloodrose said: » The facts and scientific evidence that laws, penalties, fines, and other taxes for dumping waste, have actually had a positive effect. You know, those facts. But feel free to interpret what was said to fit such a narrow-minded narrative. Cus you know, feelz. In some cases they have had a positive effect, yes. In other cases they have put unnecessary burdens on companies and consumers and have had little to show for the efforts. Once you drown out the shouts of the extremists, somewhere there's a happy medium that actually makes sense. Edit: How's that for narrow-minded?
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That's actually a much better, more moderate response. The kind of response I've grown to expect from you personally.
The prior response was not something I would ever think to attribute to you at all. Bloodrose said: » That's actually a much better, more moderate response. The kind of response I've grown to expect from you personally. The prior response was not something I would ever think to attribute to you at all. Sometimes I'm too cynical for my own good, I guess.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » In other cases they have put unnecessary burdens on companies and consumers and have had little to show for the efforts.
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That's ok, I didn't want to sleep tonight anyways.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » In other cases they have put unnecessary burdens on companies and consumers and have had little to show for the efforts. I read an article a while back about a guy who worked some 30 years in an environmental agency. He detailed all of the problems that they faced due to the money being used poorly, over-staffing, having to answer to politicians, corruption, inefficient policies, etc. I'll have to find the article again, but if someone with that much experience thought that some of the laws were doing more harm than good, I'm willing to accept that as a valid opinion. But hey, good luck convincing me that all of the government regulations are awesome and always the best course of action.
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Anyone who says all regulations are accurate and for the best is *** stupid. Anyone who says all regulations are a bad idea and the free market is utopian is even more stupid.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » In other cases they have put unnecessary burdens on companies and consumers and have had little to show for the efforts. I read an article a while back about a guy who worked some 30 years in an environmental agency. He detailed all of the problems that they faced due to the money being used poorly, over-staffing, having to answer to politicians, corruption, inefficient policies, etc. I'll have to find the article again, but if someone with that much experience thought that some of the laws were doing more harm than good, I'm willing to accept that as a valid opinion. But hey, good luck convincing me that all of the government regulations are awesome and always the best course of action. Speaking of happy mediums... there is some place between environmental extremism and deregulate everything.
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I can't even think of any environmental extremism that's ever been proposed on this board. I mean, I've seen plenty on Facebook and from certain friends in real life, but I can't think of a single regular member that's proposed anything that amounts to environmentally extreme.
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Thus the strawman used to drag any potential solution backwards into uselessness by proposing a supposed "middle ground".
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For some, not letting energy companies dump oil directly into the ocean is extreme.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Thus the strawman used to drag any potential solution backwards into uselessness by proposing a supposed "middle ground". It's a lot easier to get your way when you choose the most extreme stance and make your opponent's moderate stances out to be the opposite extreme. Then the middle ground is squarely in your territory and you can accuse them of being unwilling to compromise if they stay in the logical middle ground.
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Odin.Jassik said: » For some, not letting energy companies dump oil directly into the ocean is extreme. Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Thus the strawman used to drag any potential solution backwards into uselessness by proposing a supposed "middle ground". It's a lot easier to get your way when you choose the most extreme stance and make your opponent's moderate stances out to be the opposite extreme. Then the middle ground is squarely in your territory and you can accuse them of being unwilling to compromise if they stay in the logical middle ground. Wow, You just described every left-wing poster in P&R.. Good Job.
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Altimaomega said: » Odin.Jassik said: » For some, not letting energy companies dump oil directly into the ocean is extreme. Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Thus the strawman used to drag any potential solution backwards into uselessness by proposing a supposed "middle ground". It's a lot easier to get your way when you choose the most extreme stance and make your opponent's moderate stances out to be the opposite extreme. Then the middle ground is squarely in your territory and you can accuse them of being unwilling to compromise if they stay in the logical middle ground. Wow, You just described every single post I ever made in P&R.. Good Job.
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Personally I don't trust either side to do environmental regulations correctly. Unchained, I think they would both wreak havoc in their own ways. With the government being as inefficient and corrupt as ever, I'm almost willing to say that the joint efforts between Dems and 'Pubs to destroy each others' efforts is about as good as we can get when it comes to protecting the environment without screwing over the economy in the process.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Personally I don't trust either side to do environmental regulations correctly. Unchained, I think they would both wreak havoc in their own ways. With the government being as inefficient and corrupt as ever, I'm almost willing to say that the joint efforts between Dems and 'Pubs to destroy each others' efforts is about as good as we can get when it comes to protecting the environment without screwing over the economy in the process. Exactly, about the only true middle ground that can be achieved at this point in time. (Nothing) I used to think asteroids as little harbingers that remind us to ask: "How's that space program coming along?".
But now we're doing a pretty good job of bringing up that question for ourselves without any external help. Bring on the exoplanets.
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Verda said: » Saying doing nothing is the best that can be hoped for when we're on due course to disaster... sure ok. Please never drive any bus I'm on. Prevention is what has to happen. And if congress is dysfunctional it should be recalled enmasse. Congress needs replaced anyway, the majority of them have been bought out since long ago. Good luck with that.. I agree with you, but unlike you I realize it will never happen. Especially the way you would want it changed. Which I'm happy about at least.
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Verda said: » Saying doing nothing is the best that can be hoped for when we're on due course to disaster... sure ok. Please never drive any bus I'm on. Prevention is what has to happen. And if congress is dysfunctional it should be recalled enmasse. Congress needs replaced anyway, the majority of them have been bought out since long ago. I don't think doing nothing is the answer, I'm just not under the impression that we're on due course to some cataclysm in 100 years or whatever you were citing. If the scaremongers want to rile up people to the point of being unreasonable about the laws that we pass, well, that's their right I guess.
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