COR - I Want To Know More!

See, I have actually tired the COR/WAR approach and in all honestly, I miss too much.
I'll list my gear if you wish, most of which carries over from my RNG (rings, neck pieces, etc) and it doesn't seem to make a difference.
Perhaps its because I maxed out merits on Archery for my RNG instead of Marksmanship? Could be.
But if i busted out my COR/WAR on Gods or something of the like...
I cry to much from the misfires :(

I guess I prefer RNG sub simply because of the added r.acc trait, as well as things like Barrage and Sharp Shot.

And OF COURSE subs like RNG and NIN add absolutely nothing for QD.
Never said they did. I'm can be an idiot...but i'm not stupid :P

ANYWAY...perhaps I need to give it another shot, who knows, I could be converted :)
But my perspective comes mainly for being a QD COR (which I relish)

ONE last question, and its an honest question... not trying to pick a fight here.
You wrote:


When you typed this...you page currently has you loaded as COR/NIN (of which you seem to be against)

May I ask what event/activity you were doing at the time that made you sub it? Because you staff, Uggy Pendant, Moldy Earring and Denali pants suggest you were geared for QD...

One last note... you mentioned the only jobs that provide MAB with sub are RDM and BLM (BLM obviously being the stronger)... and that you couldn't remember if BLU did.

It Does :) at sub level you set Cursed Sphere and Sound Blast to get MAB1
You can also set Foot Kick, Smite of Rage and Chaotic Eye for +5 AGI.

i still say /rng /blm /war (maybe /rdm..............)ftw

/whm and /nin ftl

I've gone COR/WAR to a lot of HNMs and events (Omega, Cerberus, Khimaira), and my accuracy has been fine. Produced some quite nice numbers too.

I also sub WHM when I have to. Anyone deathly opposed to subbing WHM is an idiot, to be franct. Situations call for it.

He was pulling for Sky trigs, haha.

Cor/whm = gimp brd pretty much imo....i mean..i sub it when asked to...but i dont like it.

/nin /whm /rng /sam /rdm /thf

After depends which situation

but im not lvling rng so i cannot have bonus acc, but /nin is very good (not part of endgame).

THIS ^^
On Omega runs for Limbus I go COR/WHM placed in a tank party with PLD/NINx2, RDM or SCH, WHM, BRD.
Subbin WHM helps TREMENDOUSLY with backing up erase, paralyna, etc.
I maintain Evokers Roll on the group as well as Choral Roll for Spell Interruption Rate. Works like a Charm.



/sigh... sorry to hear that. I actually do find it rather helpful. but no where near a "gimp brd"



HAHAHAHAHA Have him grab a FoV page, sit at Despot, and have at it. When he pops, solo him :)
My LS keeps threatening to do that to me.
Even though I'd be more then willing.

You lost me at the bold. D:

As I was just about to ask the same question... you beat me to it
BUT... I added a bold of my own...

and what... no BLM???

DUH! Meditate>Slug Shot!!

DUH! Sneak Attack>Slug Sh...wait a second!

I'm not at all surprised to see the great degree of differences in the way people play COR. There are a lack of standards for the job because it's rare. OP said COR seemed like an underplayed job. Sir, it is the single least played Job. Less than PUP even. Check the census.

In any event, my brother is Lv75 COR and it's his only 75 job. I dual box it quite often, and I know the job fairly well. In fact, I dual boxed him as I leveled my NIN. And every party he was ever in, it was COR/WHM. This is commonly refered to in this thread as a 'gimped Bard.'

I fail to understand this. Chaos Roll w/ a Dark Knight is almost on par with Double Minuet. Granted, it's not quite that high, but that's *only* *one* *roll* that is almost tied (and on an 11, higher) than two BRD songs. Similar stories with Hunter's Roll. Additionally, COR provides unique buffs, such as Pet Acc, and Pet Magic Acc/Attk. COR provides Scholar's roll and Evoker's roll for something better than double Ballad. COR provides for a BLM party Wizard's Roll and Evoker's Roll, which is again, better than Double Ballad. In fact, COR, just from the perspective of Buffs is often superior to BRD.

Lacaan, as far as I'm concerned, hit it on the nose. It depends on your play style. But, it also depends on your events.

For things that have a low threshold for magic resistance, 5/5 QD Acc isn't needed at all. If you predominantly do Nyzul Isle, Assault, Limbus, Dynamis, missions, etc, your resist rate will be very favorable w/ 0 QD Acc merits assuming you have decent gear. If you're fighting Gods, you may want each point of Accuracy. But the only shot that *needs to stick* is Light Shot, and the targets where you'll be a primary sleeper, are targets that don't require 5/5 QD Acc merits. Having said that, the main reason QD acc is good, is b/c it's the best of the options. The other option is PR recast.

It's hard to say for PR recast. It helps you aggressively reroll. 5/5 on it takes out 30 seconds of time for a 3 roll cycle. This could be significant. IDK though. It's tough to say. Tier 1 is typically 5/5 QD Recast (which I completely agree with) and 5/5 QD Accuracy, but I could see 5/5 PR Recast being good for someone who aggressively rerolls. It would also help someone who likes Winning Streak.

I've heard a lot of hate about Winning Streak. Here's the argument for it: If I have 3 Winning Streak merits (1 extra minute of Roll Duration), my Lucky #, 10, or 11 will last an extra minute, thus improving my overall buff average. You see, an aggressive COR is constantly redoing rolls. He's constantly trying to get a Lucky, 10, or 11, and when he gets those, he lets those rolls last 5 minutes. If it's a bad roll, he will cycle through quickly, trying to rewrite it. Winning Streak lets your GOOD rolls last longer. But, a lot of people favor Snake Eye and Fold.

Snake Eye and Fold ~ Firstly, 1 Merit Each by default. You'll use these when prepping for a BCNM fight or mission fight or something. If Fold reset PR's recast, I would say 5/5 on Fold would be incredible. However, it does not. I think the best use of Fold is to keep you away from Double Bust. A single Bust is ok, but double Bust will ruin you. And, even when rolling Riskily, Double Bust is rare. I'd say one Merit in it would be far more than enough to keep you outof Double Bust consistently. 3 merits on it would keep you out of single bust consistently. 5 merits, honestly, I think is over kill. Unlike Fold, Snake Eye isn't about keeping you away from Busts, it's about letting you improve a roll.

And, in this, the best use of Snake Eye is to get out of an Unlucky. Going 1 up from an unlucky is a dramatic increase in the value of the roll. Additionally, rolling on an unlucky is usually very risky. 5/5 Snake Eye would really help on rolls that Unlucky on a 9 like Evoker's Roll. If you do a lot of BLM parties, 5/5 Snake Eye with a Commodore's Tricorne will make you very good at that. I say this because in a BLM party, you *can't* aggressively reroll. You get two rolls and you want to keep both constant... this makes Fold less usable while making Snake Eye so much more potent. In situations where you can rewrite rolls, Snake Eye at 5/5 is less attractive. But the argument here again, is the same as with QD Acc, the other option just isn't that appealing. Loaded Deck seems far to weak.

But, really is it? Here's my thought on it. Random Deal is something that can pull your *** outof a really tight spot. Maybe it restores your Light Shots and you can sleep it again, maybe it restores the RDM's Convert and he can save the party. Maybe it restores Sekkanoki and the SAM can save the day. Maybe it restores Elemental Seal and you get another ES Sleepga II for that BCNM. In all of these emergency situations, each merit you had in Loaded Deck made that possible outcome just that much greater. If you have Commodore's Frac and 3 Loaded Deck merits, I believe the chance to restore is 80%. That's a very good chance you'll save the day. It could be a huge, WOOOOOT Save the day moment. And every merit was then worth it. Whereas Fold/Snake Eye are just something that improve consistency on job that is Fun because of its inconsistency.

And that is my final thought. COR lends itself to many play styles. It's a job that I feel has no *right way* to be played. If you want to be a Marksman/Quick Drawist go for it. If you want to be a dedicated buffer, go for it. Neither is 'gimp.'

Thanks

~G

tl;dr - read lacaan's post. personal playstyle dictates how you should play it. cor/whm is not gimp.

Ghlin makes and BUTTLOAD of sense in their post.
Very nicely put. Especially your COR vs BRD comparison.

Only thing I'd argue on, which again is all a matter of opinion and play style... is the Winning Streak/PR Recast vs Snake Eye/Fold

5/5 Snake Eye is incredible

and as you mentioned:


Bold is my selling point.
YES your roll's will only last the minimum of 5 mins...
BUT... 5/5 Snake eye and 5/5 fold will help you stay on a Good/Great number... rather then botching it, and having a crappy roll last more then 5 mins.

YES Fold would couple with Winning Streak, but Snake eye is a GUARANTEE +1 to help...where Winning Streak isn't.

Hase already beat me to replying about my activity as COR/NIN (though actually when the scan took place I think I was sitting in my mog house after having helped a few people with Nuhn). For Nuhn and Brass borer, I usually go /NIN because there aren't any good obstacles to kite the around, and getting hit is much more likely than with other mob that are QD kited. And those two just so happen to hit HARD.

In either case, I'm not opposed to /NIN per se. But I am certainly opposed to labeling it a DD sub, because it really isn't. There are a couple of jobs where /NIN offers some offensive bonus (THF, BLU sort of, WAR sort of, WHM sort of) but besides that it is a purely defensive sub.

I don't use /NIN much. Some ZNMs, and sky (mostly for the cheap sneak/invis). But it is definitely something you should have available.

What?????

Sorry, can't help but screw with tarus. The rest of the post was spot on (though I'm in the 5/5 Snake Eye, 1/5 Loaded Deck, 4/5 Fold camp myself).

wait...What...???
if that's the ONLY thing you use it for... then you're lost.
ANY chance to up it by ONE NUMBER is a good thing man.
not just to hit a lucky or get off the unlucky.



you're making my head hurt...
I DARE you to make less sense.

Here...hold on...
Job Trait Overview
* Game Description: Extends the duration of Phantom Roll effects.
* Job Traits are always active.
* Each additional merit increases the duration of Phantom Roll by 20 seconds.

How in the HELL are you coming up with THIS:
If you know how to play your job, you will have it THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME with and without Winning Streak.

If you have Winning streak Merited...vs NOT having it merited...you're trying to tell me If I roll a shitty number they are the EXACT SAME DURATION?
5 min vs +20 seconds for EACH merit.
What, you control time or something?
Explain this...Please
Because i DARE you to make LESS sense.

you will have it THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME with and without Winning Streak.

Seriously man, i nearly fell out of my chair...

MY POINT IS:
5/5 Snake Eye and 5/5 Fold means EVERY FIVE MINUTES (you know...the duration of an unmerited Phantom Roll...) If I hit a number I don't like... I Snake Eye. If i STILL dont like it... I FOLD.
EVERY
FIVE
MINUTES

If i merit up Winning Streak...
Sure I can do the same thing.
BUT... if I Snake Eye, or Bust then FOLD and re-roll...and it STILL is a shitty number...
I can have anywhere between 10-15 mins to wait till I can get rid of a shitty roll I made last LONGER then FIVE MINUTES...

ugh i can't believe i'm explaining this to you...



REALLY?????

O.o

Then your wasting your merits on something you can do REGARDLESS of if you have it merited or not.

Snake Eye and Fold give you an ADVANTAGE each and every time you use it.

where as your argument... you can do WITH out WITHOUT Winning Streak

EDIT:

Look a shitty roll... guess I'll wait to re-roll it ...or I can Fold and hope I don't screw things up again in the next 10-15mins

OR

Look a Shitty roll... I can Snake eye and make it better or Fold and re-roll it ... EVERY five mins

I'm just gonna Agree to Disagree with you man.

Personally... I'd rather max my potential every 5 mins then run the risk of having something stick longer then it needs to.

Not gonna argue it anymore. We're here in this thread to explain to the OP what a COR is capable of...and the Ins and Outs of the Job... and so far we're just showing him we're capable of yelling at each other.

Truce man.

Just one thing to point out about COR/WHM unlike BRD we may not receive "good" mp gear BUT.... we also do not need to fill our equipment slots with song+ gear. I'm a hume COR and with so so gear push 400+ mp. BTW in End Game Im always in a mage party so it works for me.

Kuz: First, thanks for your compliment. But in Reply, I'm not saying 3/5 Winning Streak > 5/5 Snake Eye 5/5 Fold. (Mind you, as well, you're comparing 3 merits versus 10.) I'm just saying, 'this is the argument for it.' Also, as Mytoy said (Mytoy of FFXI Dats?), 3/5 Winning Streak also lets you put up a 5th buff which would be useful if you party swap which could be very significant.

If you strictly disregard Loaded Deck, you can do 3/5 Winning Streak and 2/5 Fold and 5/5 Snake Eye. W/ PR Recast 5/5 in Group 1, along with a Commodore Tricorne, this would be the best 'dedicated buffer' build. 2/5 Fold let's you consistently stay off Double Bust, which allows you to be risky. 5/5 Snake Eye lets you keep a 5/9 Roll (every two cycles) up from a 9 to a 10, which helps you avoid busting while keeping max buffs. 3/5 Winning Streak lets you be a party hopper when the situation calls for it, and when it doesn't, it lets you hold onto your Luckies, 10s, and 11s for max duration. This imo would be better than 5/5 S.Eye and 5/5 Fold. 5/5 Fold is overkill imho.

~G

Heh...I've heard it described that way before, quite funny. 8D

I have Winning Streak 5/5 because I'm lazy as ****. I can roll twice and come back four minutes later and the rolls are still there.

But seriously. I can't fathom how any COR can not perceive the awesomeness of 6:40 rolls. I really can't. The advantages of those merits were blatent to me before I even started partying. As for Quick Draw accuracy, that's more or less a waste of merits. You can equip enough AGI with minimal(ish) effort to have your accuracy as high as it'll go.

With that said, you can't throw on Quick Draw Recast - or Phantom Roll Recast - quite as easily as a load of AGI.

As for Fold, I feel 1/5 is adequate. If you're busting so much that you need 5/5, you're either exceptionally unlucky (look out for that piano above you), or you're an idiot who has zero concept of knowing when a roll's a good roll (would you really double up on a Six on Magus's Roll when Citadel buster is counting down on Ultima? I know I wouldn't.)

Cool. I love your work. Very cool.

It's making sense to me, but I'm still not agreeing to it.

As someone mentioned earlier, its all about individual play-style.
I know what I like and what works for me, and my style of play in the game and my activities.
Just as you have optimized yourself for your own activities as well.
I'm just going to agree to disagree instead of dragging out the huge debate.