Relic Weapon Adjustments

I made a post in the Official Forums concerning Relic Weapons I think would be a decent idea, and would make some of the less used ones more appealing.


Post feedback on your thought/opions about this.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/45667-Relic-Weapon-Adjustment

I have the obvious solution to rem: make the rem the only weapons to even reach ilv 120.

Give all rem lv120 stats that will make them beat content gear even without aftermaths and hidden effects, and that will increase the interest in following an order of growth: misc weapons -> delve gear -> relic/empy weapon -> mythic.

Currently we have: 0 -> delve gear -> mythic
(Lost in the void: relic and empies).

That's nice.

But should I get Fudo?

I got a better idea, how about kill off REM when we move to the next tier of ilvl. Instead keep on update 3 type of weapons, make REM convert to the same weapon on the next ilvl upgrade.

because last time they tried to do that it was a massacre

Please tell me you're being sarcastic if not......... blocked for life.

That's how we lost 80% of the population

SE seems to want to just introduce new weapons rather than keep RME as 'the best'. They likely won't go back and change their core effects except to make them less useless such as Nirvana/Claustrum/Tupsimati buffs to mdmg/avatar lvl, etc.

I disagree... I am enjoying the trending of returning to 75era style.
Where RM are certainly superior (for the most part) to random 119 weapons... But the gap isn't the worldshatteringchasm that it was between the REMs and every nonREM during the 99era.
Making them the only 120 things would bring back the *** from the 99era.

That being said... Empyrean weapons are worthless. 100% worthless.
They have ***damage&delay and turn into crappy relics when you have AM up...
If Empyreans and Ergons had a similar +40/30% damage boost like RMs do... then Empyrean weapons might actually be worthwhile to make again. (Ergons have utility without the damage boost.)

And as for the topic at hand... no. Just no.
AM is a "skill-gate." Learning how to utilize and benefit from AMs is what separates skilled players and people dedicated to a job from the rubes who are playing "SAM" because everyone said it's good (eg: bandwagon).
And "skill-gates" are always good. The more you're forced to think, the better you'll be as a player.
Not to mention it actually gives a reason to use the RelicWS... which, let's face it, kinda blow... to basically everything...
They're really only good for closing a double Light or Darkness SC...
But EmpyWS have been unlocked and share that trait of being able to SC off of Light and Darkness... (as in they have the Light and Darkness SC properties like Relics do)
And since they've been greatly boosted ever since the major WS update... why bother with an inferior WS?
(They should boost some of the RelicWSs, things like KoR have been getting boosts and can turn out pretty good damage... but things like Final Heaven or any of the 2h ones tend to pale in comparison. TrollololGeirskogulol.)

In sum: AM as a static buff is redic and silly.
Now putting relevant jobs on them and Empyreans... now THAT is something that should be done.

Seriously?

When Adoulin came out, now seriously.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/37939/matsui-dont-throw-away-your-rme-weapons-yet/109/

Take your time and read the 138 page discussion that was filled with rage.

Hey! Be nice!
He has 57 posts, so clearly is new(ish)...
At least enough to warrant a belief that he's ignorant to what happened before him starting the game.
(Don't *** out the 20yrold for not knowing what it was like during the Korean War.)

EDIT: Yes, Verda, REM/RME = Relic Empyrean Mythic. And that happened a couple years ago. Right at the beginning of Adoulin.
Before that all content was REMonly. (99era)
And before that, it was very similar to now... though admittedly not as "diverse". (75era)

While the AM of Gierskogul does blow hard, it's now an 80% DEX mod instead of the prior 20-30% AGI mod it used to be.

I've seen some pretty good numbers with Gierskogul just from playing around after finishing my Gungnir.

Highest I've seen was a 12k Gierskogul while the average tends to be around 5-6k on things that don't innately resist piercing damage.

Many of the relic WS's were rebuffed accordingly as well, and some of the stat modifiers were changed, and even increased.

I got 2nd on Most helpful for 2014, I mean to start this year as not even nominated.

;)

Because Rage-quit and Butthurt.

That's VERY true. But Rudra would like words with you about that last update. ;p

While they were adjusted back then... they just don't compare to many other WSs available.
(Just to keep with Geirskogul, why bother with that when your 1/5/5 Stardiver and Drakesbane will give you better damage? The only reason to would be AM... if that wasn't the worst AM ever conceived...)
I'm not suggesting to make them the new Fudo/Rudra's... or anything as greedy/dumb/whatever as that. I'm just saying it would be nice if they were solid WSs in their own right without regard to AM.
They're certainly better than the 100%BS some of them were preupdate... (SO MUCH CHR mods!! WTFH SE?)
But when you look at them next to Mythic, Empy, Quest and Merit WSs... they tend to fall flat. (which one depends on the job and whatnot.)

EDIT:Also don't forget the rampant BS that people would constantly spout about how REMs shouldn't be and won't be iLv'd.
I always tried to calm people and point out that Matsui said that it'll happen...
But humans are humans...
And like Bloodrose said...
In retrospect, they're silly/dumb.
At the time, I could understand why they were mad... but I had patience. (also screw the selfish, scared haters from then. I had faith in the 75era vision... and look who wound up being right.)

Because this was 4 months aAfter he did it, he never made the promise prior.

Drakesbane has been very lackluster, and even when properly geared, falls way behind Geirskogul when properly geared.

Stardiver only began doing more damage at 3/5 merits, and blows it out of the water at a full 5/5.

I also did mention "playing around with it" because I had recently finished the weapon, not that I was using it where a superior ws would be doing more damage.

And recently, well, I've been updating thf (and thankfully already had Rudra's unlocked before my 3-4 month break) and seen some very sickening results with both Mandalic Stab and Rudra's Storm.

However, I do agree that many of the relic ws's need to be further updated in order to maintain the idea of skill-gating and critical play thinking.

Lol i'm so quitting XI (again) if they ever try to kill RMEs off.
Everyone I know pretty much plays XI and stays subbed because we enjoy the 'RME building game'.

SE kinda gets RMEs+skirmish weapons sorta balanced right with corsair, each top end gun is somewhat 'situationally awesome' depending on the content and whether you shoot for tp or melee and ranged ws,etc.
They sorta need to look at other job RMEs+skirmish weap and do that so in an ideal world you would want the relic+empy+mythic+skirmish weap for the job you love because they are all good and useful in a certain way.

I don't really care if they add new weapons that are sidegrades to RMEs, they just need to respect the time investment people put into RMEs kind of like how XIV keeps carrying the relic(zodiac) weapons alongside their itemlevel bumps.

That's the whole point. Most of the aftermaths if not pointless, are very weak, in comparison. And having the TP bonus on those WS's only used to enhance the duration on them just holds a lot of the WS's back. If they just made the aftermats normal stats on the equipment and changed the WS's to "Damage varies with TP" It should boost some of the WS's very nicely.

And none of the aftermath stats are really game-breaking to have full-time.

Not even skill-gating.
Just options.

I want RUN to have Torcleaver access because that would give the job more than "2" WSs to use. (GEO could also desperately use Dagan... oh lordy could it use Dagan... not that it hurts without... but think of life WITH it!)
Same idea with the relic WSs.
Even if it's just 3 WSs... That's more variance than only 2 good ones.

Plus... who knows how derpy SE will be with any WS update...
IMO Rudra didn't need an update.
Am I complaining about my TH-only THF having a 20k WS all of a sudden?
Hell no.
But I never would have said in the board room "hey, you know what needs a 3x potency boost? Rudra's Storm! That WS is just SO BAD!"...

EDIT:+5% crit rate is redonk good. 5 doesn't sound like a large number... but it's a HUGE boost in practice.
And 8mp/tick refresh from a single slot says "hi too."
Though that would make Claustrum more than a troll's trophy...
BARANCE!

Cough Tachi: Fudo was such a WS.

Oh wait.....

Yeah, probably more useful on BLM than SMN, but really, BLM is the job that needs more work anyway. At least it would make the aftermath(and by extension the weapon) useful. The +8 MP/tick is an amazing stat, but as it needs to be activated by using the WS, makes it pointless in real gameplay.

Yes, 5% crit rate is a good stat to have, but is it really aftermath-style good? Not really. 5% crit rate is comparable to what you see on normal gear.

And the fact that Mercy Stroke aftermath is tied to enhancing the duration of this stat is what holds Mercy Stroke back a lot. Anything after 1000 TP is pointless for the effect of Mercy Stroke.

It's actually better than Rudra's Storm stacked when compared at 1000 TP exactly. But since it's damage essentially "caps" at 1000 TP, Rudra's Storm can overtake it quickly with just a bit of TP overflow.

This makes sense if your oppinion is one of "THF isn't supposed to be a DD." If your oppinion is that "THF is a DD," then Rudra's wasn't very good (imo at least).

It was a WS that was only useful once every ~30 seconds and very bad unstacked. Even stacked, it did comparable-ish damage to other DDs unstacked WS's, that could be literally spammed at 1000 TP without much concern for position or recast timers.

When Izhiikoh is not only beating Mandau and Twastar but also every mythic in game other than THF's own mythic Vajra then it might be safe to say SE might have slightly over did it.

That would be pretty cool if it were true. It's not though...so there's that.