The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

Does Climactic still win with a R15 Terp? Honest question.

So I've seen some interesting parses with Tauret MH, Twashtar OH.
Did anybody update the tier list of weapons with Tauret MH?
From my calculations it should be above R15Terps/Twash and R15Aeneas/Twash at low buff, behind them (but not so much actually) at high buffs.
It's of course behind R15Twash/Centovente and slightly behind R15Twash/Sari (or R15Twash/Tauret).

Guess we could be talking about Tauret/Centovente but Evisceration doesn't really scale that well with TP so I don't think Centovente would provide as massive of a boost as it provides to Twash.


I wonder... how do Tauret MH users handle their cooldowns?
Is it still better to go for 2/3 Rudra during Climactic, or should Tauret users actually go for Striking Flourish and keep spamming Evisceration?

Considering I completed my Twashtar not long before Tauret was introduced I feel a bit disheartened, but then again it's nothing new in the wonderful world of FFXI. I do own a Tauret myself so I've got nothing to complain I guess.

only talking about VD ambu this month taurent/twash but i just kept spamming evisceration unless i was making SCs. 1k evis was doing 20-35k dmg but 3k climactic building rudra only did 50-60k. I don't think either of my WS sets are perfect but they're pretty good. striking or ternary is probably pretty good for evis but for the most part I just ignored flourish 3 and stuck to building flourish since it has crit rate and atk bonus.
does anyone know if striking forces DA or just gives 100% DA (can TA proc instead)?

Not sure what you mean about "Forcing" DA vs 100% DA.
Wouldn't "force" a DA proc on a specific attack round be the same as having 100% DA rate for that attack round?

I'm sure I must be missing something but hey, thought I might ask.

If you have 3% QA, 15% TA and 100% DA then your attack has a chance to QA and TA before it DA's. If you force the Double attack you won't QA or TA at all.

Clim/RS does more than 15% more damage than Tern/PK at R0, so yeah, it should.

Was inspired by Kat & Kuki's run, so I tried to do a similar type of run on my DNC.

I'm not nearly as well-geared as the more veteran Dancers here and still wanted to do the entire run myself, so I had to take a slightly different approach to the fight.



No REMAs on any character besides a GHorn on the BRD, so I'm using SPs to compensate a bit. Skinflayer/Fusetto+2 on me and Kaja Sword/Demersal Degen+1 on the COR.

I used Stutter Step + Frazzle to help the GEO land Silence more consistently. Didn't play perfectly (some unnecessary Presto use, didn't switch steps as often as I should, missed the last 'Silence wore off' message), but it still worked out OK.

Just wanted to post this to show DNC tank can still do well this month on VD, even without amazing gear!

Gratz very nice!

Now tell me where I can dowload that addons for timers and party buffs :O

This is Party buffs.

Shiraj is correct about the buffs; the JA timers are from the Timers Plugin that comes with Windower and the debuff timers are from the Debuffing addon

Quoting myself, but anybody delved deeper into this topic?
Some math?
Some parses?

We of course know that Climactic is meh for a WS that can naturally Crit like Evisceration (and it applies just to the first hit anyway) which is exactely what I'm wondering.
Should Tauret MH users use Flourish 3 cooldowns on Climactic Flourish (and use Rudra when it's up) or should you use Striking/Ternary and keep spamming Evisceration instead?

Someone replied "I use Building Flourish instead" which I dunno, doesn't make much sense to me, giving Building Flourish is a Flourish2 so it doesn't share the cooldown with Climactic/Striking/Ternary.


Building vs Reverse I dunno either for Tauret MH users.
If they had the same cooldown I'd say 100% Reverse, but given how Building bonuses apply to each hit of the WS and how Evisceration is multihit and how Building is 3 seconds/3 maneuvers vs 30seconds/5maneuvers of Reverse, then I'm not sure if it's better to have an additional WS every 30 seconds, or to greatly boost your WS every 10 seconds.




So yeah, tl;DR

What is the best way to spend your Flourish Cooldowns for a Tauret MH user?
1) Building Flourish vs Reverse Flourish
2) Climactic Flourish (Rudra) vs Striking/Ternary (Evis)

Well, full Building flourish costs 3 FM and it has 10 sec cooldown. If you use it, you can simply miss FM to also keep using Striking or Ternary or you would be forced to build 1FM per step with capped steps at which point, JA delay would take away more damage than Strinking/Ternary could add.

No, I still don't see the sense of that way of viewing things.
I mean if you want to apply it all of the time (that means to Reverse Flourish + Climactic Flourish spamming Rudra) I'll accept it.
But applying it only for Building Flourish makes no sense.

It's still FM2+FM3, period. You require maneuvers, you have cooldowns, and you have a lot of flexibility in how you manage your resources.


This is not an attack against the user Ticktick btw, I have nothing against him, I'm just using his post to discuss.
He wrote:

This sentence doesn't make particularly sense to me.
Why should you ignore FM3 just because you're using Building Flourish?
By the same logic with Aeneas MH should we ignore Climactic Flourish because we're using Reverse Flourish then?
They're two separate cooldowns, it's not one or the other, you can do both and should use both.
How you do that it's of course up to personal playstyle and preference. As I said before we have resources, we decide how to manage them.
But saying "I don't do FM3 because I use FM2" like they're mutually exclusive or like using FM3 would have almost no consequence at all, doesn't make particularly sense to me :x

Greetings everyone,

Read some interesting points and wanted to give some insight if it helps.

Before that, I want to emphasize on the idea that these are all based off tests with other Dancers done during this month.
Targets were V1 VD, HELMs in Reisenjima, and Apex Bats.

TL;DR Tauret should definitely be ranked amongst legendary weapons for Dancers.



Based off many runs on V1 this month and our Aeonic Run, your ranking is close to what me and Kuki got during all these fights, it should be noted that this happened because of the fight mechanics which favored multi-step by making each player do a single WS ending with Kuki closing to keep hate up.

To simply arrange it:

• In Zerg Situations, for Tauret/Twashtar users spam Evisceration with Building Flourish up to nearly cap critical hit rate on all hits and boost WS DMG by association from Job Points.

• In Multi-Step Situations, for Tauret/Twashtar users spam Rudra with Building Flourish as well and Climactic Flourish whenever it's up.

• Please note that Building Flourish is highly encouraged for Pyrrhic Kleos and for Evisceration, that boost in attack, WS DMG, and Critical Hit is too powerful to ignore.

Pure Zerg/High Buffs:

1-Twashtar/Centovente Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Evisceration with Building Flourish whenever its up.
3-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish and Saber Dance up.
4-Twashtar/Airy Buckler Spamming Rudra with Reverse Flourish.
5-Twashtar/Taming Sari Spamming Rudra with Reverse Flourish.
6-Aeneas/Twashtar Spamming Rudra with Reverse Flourish.

Multi-Step/High Buffs:

1-Twashtar/Centovente Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish and Saber Dance up.
3-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
4-Twashtar/Airy Buckler Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
5-Twashtar/Taming Sari Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
6-Aeneas/Twashtar Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.

Consequently in Low Buff/Gear Tier situations:

1-Twashtar/Tauret Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Evisceration with Building Flourish.
3-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish.

Most likely people that fall under this paradigm will only have Tauret/Taming Sari or Tauret/Skinflayer.

Surprisingly, Climactic Rudra with Tauret Main isn't that far from Twashtar Main even at R15 and Maxed Gear.

Thats what I resorted to as well.

Could you please state the conditions? Im interested in this.

Great Video Kaelann, it was fun to watch it!


1)Building Flourish if Multi-Step with others, Reverse Flourish if Solo Multi-Step.
2)Climactic Flourish all the way, the wait on it is definitely worth it for maximum Rudra, there is no incentive to use Ternary Flourish at the moment simply because Building Flourish 3/3 is too powerful.

D:

The same line of thought again. I don't get it ;_;
The way I'm reading this sentence is BF 3/3 is so powerful it will always be better than Ternary
Like... it's one or the other.
Can use both at the same time instead!



...stil, I have to admit there was a big miscalculation on my end.
Shows how long since last time I used Striking/Ternary Flourish lol, if ever.
I remembered them to work for the next "X" attack rounds, sort of like Climactic Flourish, whereas they just work on the next attack round/WS, a single time.
Pretty lame I guess.


Guess Striking could become decent for Evisceration when we'll receive Maculele Casaque +3. Supposing There will be good stats in there, forcing a DA (with CHR additional bonus, and with transfering FTP) with the additional >60% Crit rate bonus, could be quite hot for a WS like Evisceration.
So yeah, IF Maculele Casaque +3 will have good stats, it could lead to create specific WS sets with different paradygms.
Then and only then I can see Striking Flourish becoming potentially interesting.
Until then nope, and I guess we got our answer.

I dont understand what you dont understand. Reverse will use 4-5 FM every 30sec. Climactic 5FM every 90sec. So you need to build max 20 FM in 90 sec.

Builinding flourish is 3FM every 10 sec. Thats 27 FM in 90sec. If you add 3 Striking flourishes to that, you need 33FM in 90sec. So situation with mixing FII with FIII is completely different for reverse+climactic and building+striking.

You don't *have* to use FM3 on cooldown. Even using it every now and then would still be better than not using it at all. That's the point I was making.
Provided you have FMs to spend, of course. And this is the source of the issue I'm afraid.
3 FMs every 10 seconds is quite taxing I guess, and I suppose you really need for it to be 3 because otherwise you use the crit bonus.
Granted you'd still get the WSD+20% applying to all hits even at 1 FM so... it wouldn't be entirely shitty now, would it? But I digress.

One small error that's not so small that I made was considering a generation of 36 FMs every 90 seconds but that's not possible because it requires Terps MH, and we're talking about a situation with Tauret MH, so that 36 becomes 30.
Realistically it's probably even less than that.


So yeah I guess if you use BF with 3 at all costs and every 10 seconds, you will hardly have FMs to do anything else indeed.

It really depends on the fight to be honest, if you're zerging just stick to Reverse or Building Flourish whenever its up.[Same Logic as Climactic]

In a coordinated Multi-Step you will not need 30 Finishing Moves in "90" seconds to use Building Flourish, especially if you're waiting on someone to get 2000+ TP.

I'm not sure why some (not you) focus so much on speed of Multi-Step when you know that you have a window of 9 seconds to link them.

Every time we did a multi-step fight and my turn comes, there is always 3/3 Building Flourish to spare. It's really dependent on how good you are in managing Presto/Steps during TP phase, and how you shave off JA delay when you combine them together.

Looking through the guide, I see that it has meg+2 body listed on evis instead of abnoba. Is meg really beating abnoba kaftan?

higher dex/str/acc/atk and crit dmg than kaftan, i wanna say its comfortably ahead

only 7 more dex and 1 more crit damage. I had figured kaftan would win because of how significant crit hit rate is. The acc/attack i dont really care about in the groups that i use dnc with.

I had it as basically 7 dex and 1 crit damage vs 5 crit hit rate.

It probably wins in low buff and undercapped situations. But in ideal buffs Kaftan should probably win by a decent little chunk.

Care to show some math and the scenario on were it would win?

in case you cant tell, i was looking for math as to why meg+2 would win. the scenario was already mentioned above.

Sure, post your set and state your buffs then I can try to test it for you.

Because in Capped Situations (Tauret/Twashtar) exactly at 1K:
With Abnoba:5655.046
WS AVG: 27680

With Meg+2:5749.975
WS AVG:28251

Switch the Cape to DEX/DA if dDEX is capped to have extra 200 on total DPS. I didn’t count the bonus from Building Flourish but it is expected to add 200-300 more to DPS.
Cape used was DEX/Crit, Saber Dance was up.


This statement is not correct, when you approach 1K, your Crtical Hit Rate would be around 81.5% provided you're capped on dDEX and Feather Step is 10/10. Technically, you only need around 18.5% in gear to cap 100% or 28.5% if dDEX isn't capped (Thats rare to happen with Evisceration Set, can only think of Disjoined Mithra and in that case you shouldn't even use Abnoba)
Also, that 7DEX you mentioned could be the sole reason to cap dDEX.

Alright, that was exactly what I was looking for. Appreciate the info.

Could you please break this down. How many % and from where.

do we even know how often were capped on dDex? My understanding is mobs stats are just as high as ours these days, specially as you go up the clvl ladder

Stats of several mobs are known I think, so we kinda know based on that.

Taken from MNK sheet:

130Lv Apex Crab - 250 AGI
126Lv Apex Eruca - 236 AGI
135Lv Apex Bat - 275 AGI
150??? Lv Kouryu - 390 AGI
150??? Lv Warder of Courage - 400 AGI

Still waiting for explanation of that 81.5% crit rate with 1000TP Evisceration without equip. Sounds way too high, but I need to know details to comment that.

5% merits
15% dDEX
5% base
10% 1000TP Evisceration
14% Feather Step
=
49%

Missing 32.5%