How Would You Balance The Jobs?

Cor doesn't compete with the buffer slot usually, but rather with the dd. You remove a dd to make place for less damage but additional buffs. A well geared cor can deserve a spot in any endgame event.
But yeah dispel happy mobs are the bane of cor. The more you need to roll the less desirable you are as you're also losing tons of dps.

But all that Angon DPS increase should be credited to you. Alongside all the crit damage you're responsible for thanks to all those Stardivers!

lol

It's how powerful the job is on default settings. This is owed largely to how OP fudo is. A low skilled play can use gearsets posted on the SAM forum or just copy the TP and Fudo set from someone else and be extremely effective by just mashing their WS macro. No need to understand all those other abilities. A great player will learn those abilities and reach truly broken levels of performance.

It's the MNK syndrome all over again. Just engage and punch things while occasionally hitting a WS macro. The job comes prewired to do tons of damage on autopilot.

The fix for this would be a nerf of Fudo but a buff to the JAs. Similarly SAMs SC bonus trait could be enhanced to 50~75%. This reduces the autopilot damage but leaves room for advanced damage output.

As things are now, I could script out the job and play with nearly zero human input.

Ooo I think you're right... Idk what parser they used... But it might have been Kparser... So... My point may be more valid than thought... But you may be 100% correct.

But that still doesn't dismiss the fact that SAM's hitrate is massive compared to everyone else just from having Zanshin... And higher hitrate = higher DPS.

And further, it shouldn't be a NM that "balances" a job... It should be an NM that favors a type of job. (eg slashing damage being good in Yorcia Delve but Blunt is good in Morimar and piercing is in Marjami.)

People truly underestimate the power of stacking defense down.

THIS x100000000000

SAM should specialize in SC only. WAR/DRK should be WSing 150-200% more than SAM.

The logic is simple. If SAM can gain TP 150-200% times faster than other DDs, why shouldn't WAR or DRK deal 150-200% times more WS damage than WAR or DRK? Like SAM is 10/10 WS damage 10/10 in TP generation and 10/10 in skillchaining; WAR and DRK are like 8.5 or 9/10 in WS damage 6 or 7/10 in WS damage and 5/10 in skillchains, it's like why do WAR or DRK even exist when SAM does everything they do but better. WAR and DRK should excel in raw ws damage if SAM is gonna specialize in TP generation and SC spams.


The mage equivalent of SAM is like a SCH that is permanently Tabula Rasa'd and the strategems never wear off, so they can Cure/aoe/sleep/nuke/enfeeble/buff/raise rivaling BLM/RDM/WHM to the point where the benefits of the specialists are marginalized. Jobs that are generalists do things half-assed; like RDM and DNC and jobs that are specialists, excel; i.e WHM, RNG, BRD. Yet SAM does many things, very well to the point where other DDs can't compare. You don't give a job that specializes in SC damage ALSO the best TP generation AND best WS damage AND the best armor classes AND attack speed bonus JA AND incredible traits like hassozanshin.

You're right, and although that's valid and true and extends to Stardiver's +5% crit def down too, it's not like the extra damage from buffs/debuffs shows up on the parse as being attributed to to the debuffer/buffer. If it did, BRD would be respected as the best DD in the game since their buffs increase everyone's damage far more than having a melee in their place. Same goes for DNC btw, where their damage + everyone's extra damage from haste samba, increases everyone's DPS more than having a WAR or MNK in their stead would.

And it's also the reason why people undervalue jobs like Geomancer, Red Mage and Dragoon and read too much into parser values like a scoreboard rather than what individuals bring to the table.

That Angon global DPS buff is potent, as is putting Frightful Roar or Geo-Frailty on a target and makes up for a large portion of the DPS the character may not be doing personally. Dia, Def Down and a Geo'd Def down? Huge amounts of GLOBAL DPS increase.

Angon's -25% is the statistical equivalent of giving the ALLIANCE +33% attack because it shrinks the denominator, not increases the numerator. Defense down is almost always better and more potent than increasing the attack of the DDs because 1) it more efficiently increases the cRation for everyone not just one party, it can't be 'dispelled' unless it's erased, and it's more potent than the same value of +attack.

war/sam berserk has 14% more crit and 9%? more attack(and can pretty much full time it) than sam/war. Also war/sam does weaker dmg than sam; but they should considering they are the only dd with very potent aoe buff; maybe they should focus on that aspect of war giving war the ability to full time either warcry or bloodrage aoe buff would make us use war again

Drk can use diabolic eye and not die; it's not that suicidal; Soul eater is suicidal if used for more than one ws or outside of sp zerg

Sam was meh from abyssea till tsurumaru(beside legion); the only nerf it would need now would be tachi: fudo; nerf more than fudo and we'd just all swap to ryu since drg is a thing now so I'd rather see them buff war and drk and make harder content than nerf sam.

Except Marjami takes slightly less from slashing, and Morimar switches weaknesses depending on phases(blunt is only last 25%). Wopket takes -99% damage from piercing permanently, at any HP%. No other current NM has damage immunity like that which can't be removed by a gimmick or HP % phase. Also Marjami is more of a RNG bonus than a piercing bonus in practical purposes because meleeing him is a deathwish, unlike Wopket.

I think where the FFXI team has failed is that they never ended up pursuing properly what they designed the jobs to be. Instead all dds are there doing the same thing cause their side-abilities are so neglected that no one bothers with them.

Why should a tachi deal more damage than a giant axe?

I agree. The relative strength of jobs should be based on their main hand weapon base damage. DRK and WAR=slow but strong. DRG slightly faster but weaker. SAM=moderate strength/moderate speed. THF=fast as hell but weaker; spike damage, etc. Instead you have DRKs hitting delay cap with heavy *** weapons, SAM's destroying everyone, DRG's being god knows where. Side abilities are all derpy. Some jobs get fantastic JAs like MNK/WAR/DRK/SAM, other jobs get pointless side abilities or lack abilities like THF/BST/NIN.

Also the roles are so diluted and intended roles are so downplayed. DRG was meant to deal high damage with multihits, high tp gain and shed their hate while hitting elemental weaknesses with breath; instead breaths are worthless, Jumps are reliant on a crappy pet, multihits are pathetic on hard content and things like +WSD only affect the first hit. DRK was meant to deal great damage by sacrificing stats, instead the benefits are marginal while the tradeoffs are punitively severe -15% HP for +20 accuracy??? SAM gets +10 accuracy for free, at the cost of magic cast/recast which they don't even have natively---how is that a bad tradeoff, it doesn't affect a SAM at all unless they're /NIN which they ought not even need except like 5% of the time.

This becomes needlessly complicated and the reason that so many MMOs have homogenized their DPS jobs. The minute you start trying to apply RL mechanics to the game, you end up with lopsided balance and people finding what works best and ruthlessly sticking to it - like the XI of old. Bad, bad XI of old.

If anything, this dev team has made great strides to making all DPS viable both by addressing many of the crippling issues that made jobs like MNK completely useless in '04 era endgame, giving a bunch of impressive weaponskills through abyssea and flattening out the DPS horserace such that competency and skill can determine who wins.

Mostly what keeps you from using certain DPS are resistance barriers or events like AAs where you need blinks if you like being alive. VD has boiled down to abusing ranged strategies which bodes ill for the 'make ***harder!' crowd. Theres a point where making things harder just means more annihilator RNG because rapecones are a thing.

SAM is overstated, mythic access is overstated and this game hasn't seen better balance ever. SAMs an impressive DPS job but it's favored moreso because it's the easiest job to not ***.

Of course there will always be something that is preferred. It's impossible to create anything that works exactly equally on all sides.

But if you give all the benefits to a single job it doesn't work either.

Drk could have gotten meaningful dark magic.
Thf should have gotten the ability to steal stats instead.
War top ws dmg but slow.
Sam average ws dmg but huge skillchains.
Mnk top white dmg and low on ws.

and so on.

This is of course speaking from a do it from scratch, you can hardly apply anything new at this point. Only a constant wave of buffs and nerfs.

So basically XIV? A job where everything plays differently but ultimately is homogenized to all hell.

DRG, BLM and MNK play differently but all do damage there. Unsurprisingly it's a complaint about that title.

I think everyone can agree that DRK could have used more spells but really, even in the offline FFs what DRK could do with magic was limited to all hell.

Drg and blm in XIV have a pretty bad design in my opinion. That example is actually the opposite of where I'm going at.

Yonin, innin, sa, ta, aura steal, etc. Just because a JA doesn't grant haste or some direct damage doesn't mean it's a crappy JA. SATA is arguably one of the better job abilities in the game.

With the way difficulty scale up with more ppl in event recently, I'm not sure a COR mule is even effective unless you're doing BC, buff outside then finish the fight in 5 min.

I rarely /WHM, Leaden salute just got another major boost thanks to pixie hairpin +1 and JSE cape WSD augment, which boosted a 6~7k WS by %, now it's really OP on darksday. it also dark with fudo so it's not like it's really bad for SC when you play with SAMs. Honestly idk why SE keep buffing leaden salute lol.

I have even harder time to understand the obsession with COR/WHM though!


This is correct!

Shh! Let it be that way!

Due to the way JA delay works, SATA are good but in an alliance where the mob is turning every second; they're hard to execute, and I thought TA doesn't work across alliances. Aura steal is nice, when it freakin works, but it's tied to a 5min ability; and DRK gets Absorb-Attri which is better than aura steal because it's a quicker recast.


If they scale back SC damage to be what it was before they upped it, but just allowed SC to be unresisted, SAM would be a lot more balanced. No need for SCs to be doing 30k damage ever. Reports of SAM 1shotting Wopket with a 4 or 5 step 99,999 light skillchain is mindblowingly bad game design.

Spot on, Sparthosx. BLU is so close to being perfect in my mind. The main thing I want for BLU now is just for our old spells to be reworked. Making all of our older spells useful would make us a true "fill-in-the-gaps" kind of job.

Ex. Updating Feather Storm to have greater range and do the damage of, let's say, an Eminent gear RNG's standard ranged attack would cover a small ranged damage niche. Or 1000 Needles could be updated to do 1000 damage to a target regardless of any immunities or resistances, possibly making the high MP,Casting Time,Recast and set cost worthwhile. While older physical spells could have a D update and take greater advantage of Monster Correlation, thereby potentially making spells like Bludgeon one of the go-to spells when fighting Undead who are also weak to blunt, etc.

If I were balancing BLU, I definitely would make spell adjustments to the vast majority of old spells, making us have more depth in combat. But I would not want them to outperform jobs that specialize in anything, just make us a viable option.

One thing I would absolutely NOT do is something I've seen a number of BLU on the OF ask for: Allow BLU to access their full spell list. Basically all of our spells would have to be nerfed into uselessness if that happened. The spell setting system, including the 1 min lockout on spells, is a large part of what keeps us balanced as well as part of what makes BLU interesting. We can do a lot of things decently well but we have to choose our loadout.

Well, with Incursion yeah. We've taken cor mains.

I even got to go.

And then go promptly scolded by everyone, including my own wife who was the other corsair, for subbing DNC and being up there soaking up damage and debuffs.

I don't *** get the /whm. I'm terrible at it, I think it's worthless because I don't balance playing -na *** well with actually doing damage, etc.

But whatever. I'll take /whm on corsair over spending an endless amount of time on ranger doing DM/AAs/etc., I guess.

Also, seriously. This.

What she means is that if the cor goes /whm, most of the time you're better off bringing another job entirely to the event.

*shrug*

We win things, so I don't argue I guess.

I'll take not being bitched at by everyone over anything sensible.

I think the idea they had for BLU was to, instead of buffing old spells, create upgraded versions of similar spells. Like a upgrade for bludgeon(3 hit spell, fast cast, fast recast) was Delta Thrust. Need multihit blunt? Asuran Claws.

Monster Correlation is such an understated component of Blue Mage that 99% of BLUs forget it even exists. I loved going BLU to Ceizak Delve and doing spamming 3-4k Delta Thrusts(Lizard Spell) on Chapuli NM where every DD had to hold TP.

So annoying though, setting specific spells for specific events, potentially screwing with your traits, etc. Isn't it?

I don't know. I wouldn't mind playing BLU in theory, but I refuse on principle.

Well, I agree that COR is kinda bad in incursion, on NM leaden salute doesn't work quite well, with all that dispel/debuff and rebuff it's annoying as ***. But when I offered BLU for stun lock/AoE erase my LS started drama - -

Anything else that doesn't resist leaden salute, DP+pixie hairpin +1+ Anrin Obi and day/weather buff+OAT offhand and SAM roll just rapes. Taking dmg isn't a legit argument cuz every melee takes dmg, if you want additional 13% def down from steps you have to melee anyways.

Well to balance the jobs have warriors and dark knight do 15,000 upheavals or ukko furies and resolutions. Ninja dancer thief beastmaster faster attack rounds. Problem solved.

DD can I have it? Anything