How Would You Balance The Jobs?

I'm not sure how to balance job like war or drk w/o a sraight boost to ws dmg wich would be meh, I hope hey find specific thing for their job like they did with drg, I really enjoy de drg change.

For DRK I'd guess making absorb super potent, last longer and no decay maybe; but would need to be a ridiculous amount to make up for the delay.


As of warrior I have no idea how they could fix it in an original way.

Since the OP asked for us to talk about how SE could balance our main job.. the only thing I can say is this:

I love the DRG buff, but our wyverns are still useless under high buff situations. As Legato mentioned earlier in the thread, we need to be given a way to either A) Lock Wyvern Breath, or B) Choose between elemental breaths and physical TP moves.

The DPS of a DRG's wyvern is pathetic, and it's all due to our ability to WS with increased frequency. This is even worse for Ryu DRGs. AM3 affects my pet, but if I have AM3 up all my pet gets to do is use breaths. My pet's breaths do less damage than his normal attacks.

Wyverns used to parse 15-25% of whatever the DRG parsed.. now i'm lucky if its 3%. This is really the last "Need" for DRG, one of those poor design flaws that need to be changed.

Maybe if offensive breaths were treated differently to say.. deal damage equal to a percentage of the damage dealt by the masters WS. Pretend for a second that I'm hitting a monster for 6k with my weapon skill and my normal attacks are doing about 1000 damage. My Wyvern will use a breath for 250 damage while his normal attacks will do over 400. That is just completely *** backwards. I would be thrilled if they boosted wyvern "TP Moves" to deal 20-30% flat damage based on whatever the WS damage from the master is.

This would mean that my pet would use 1200-1800 damage attacks when I weapon skill for 6k rather than spamming 250 damage nonsense.

They should take some notes from the job balance in XIV.
FFXIV has achieved more balance among jobs in 1 year than XI has in almost 13.

XIV has 1 principle in party make up - you need at least 2 of each type of class to succeed. 2 healers, 2 tanks, 2-3 DPS.

Both tanks are effective, and the party benefits from having both types of tanks in pt. The same can be said about healers. WHMs are great spike/group healing, SCHs are great tank healers and dmg mitigation.

There are also unique factors in battle mechanics. The longer a fight continues, the more jobs like MNK shine as they build their greased lightning stacks. But because fight flow is regularly interupted, MNKs rarely get the chance to be fully buffed and wreck hell on the enemy (turn 8 is an exception I can think of where MNK outshines everything else, but not by that large a margin, and only if skilled enough)

Well this has turned into an XI vs XIV post, unintentionally. All I would say to summarize is that balance can be achieved, but SE need to stop thinking in terms of ws dmg %, store tp, haste, slashing vs blunt vs piercing etc.

Also, no more half assed schizophrenic changes to jobs. If they want WAR to be a tank, then for the love of God give it viable traits, defense and abilities to tank. Just stop *** with it already and decide.

If they want SAM to be the Skillchain spam job, do not give it the strongest ws's. If DRK's niche is Dark Magic, make Dark Magic worth something. MNK was suppossed to be the damage-over-time melee class. But they whored out haste to every class so much so that MNK needed big ws numbers to remain relevant.

The jobs in the game need a reset button.

This is the biggest issue. Most of the jobs in this game are designed poorly or have changed to be significantly different than what they were intended to be in the beginning.

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Besides the situation that resists certain dmg type, I thought fudo isn't the strongest WS!

Truth is, it doesn't matter how much you balance a game, people will always try to find the best/easiest way to get thru something.

The jobs in this game, are pretty much just Like fighting game characters in a Fighting game, people will always do research/testing to find out what beats what in w/e situation and create a tier list, and the jobs in this game pretty much work the same way as a fighting game.

Made me think of this

...........How?

Should really boost elemental dots or introduce burn/choke/shock etc tier 2 spells with a much more potent dot effect. Also blm buff durations could do with being extended via more gear, grapevine is pretty much all we have to extend buffs which need need regular recasting.

Could fix DRK with an "Absorb-All" spell.
Absorbs STR/DEX/INT/MND/CHR/AGI/VIT + TP + Attribute + Attack + Defense, costs 200 MP with 0.5 casting time and 60 seconds cool down.

This isn' true, can do everything in XIV with a solo tank.

Maybe if you're doing ilvl80 content in ilvl115 gear, sure.
The equivalent of killing Kirin at Lv.99 in i115 gear....

Ppl been solo tanking coil T5 when it was the highest tier raid.

T9 is solo tank too.

T5 is a joke though.. always was.

For pet jobs:
Main hinderance for powering up pet jobs have always been the fairly riskless nature of battles when they are able to team up.
Remember when they tried to counter those tactics with ignore-pet ability traits?

Only way to get rid of that would be a power decrease the more of them are inside an alliance. But that is most likely not possible to program at this stage of the game, so they'll be forever medicore if even~

Sounds like someone really took that Brady Games guide to heart.

Just out of curiosity, has this mentioned on the official forums? People can say all they want... but I think it does help on occasion especially with the new buff we just got.

Wyvern breaths are decent, not great though technically they're free damage. In incursion they're doing between 320-480, wyvern is hitting physicaly for ~110-180 due to only having about 1000 attack(if they had say 1500 attack, Wyverns would be hitting for 300-350) like they do on lower level mobs.

Wyvern's do nice damage on low level things....like blanched mandragora, where they hit for 420 per hit, but in Incursion on 122 mobs, they hit for ~130ish. Breath dmg based on a % of DRG's damage could be interesting but may be overpowered in certain circumstances. Dragoons lack a way to boost their WS damage outside of /WAR and Angon, and we don't have things like Overwhelm either. The Wyvern is kind of a way to boost our damage by adding breaths to our WS but the breaths don't do very much damage in the grand scheme of things, about equal to a single one of my polearm swings, and less so when the Wyvern is damage, which in things like Incursion is invariably always.

Let's make a job that specializes in Weapon Skill frequency, but also give them the strongest weapon skill in the game, and a free +20% WS damage trait, and a JA that gives them 250-300% TP when properly geared, and a JA that lets them use a WS for only 100% TP but at the power of 300% TP, and a TP move that increase their WS TP by 150%, and also +25% double attack on top of what they get from /WAR as long as they keep up a JA with a short recast/long duration. Also I was thinking, they should also swing again when they miss, but the 're-swing' should give them even more TP and more acc! Also this job should get ludicrous bonus damage for skillchains. Hell let's let them specialize in ranged damage and allow them to equip 2 relics simultaneously. Also I'm not sure if this is overkill, but maybe most of their weapon skills should get massive attack bonuses, oh and an ability to evade damage/counter. Screw it, let's give them A parrying and B evasion and the unique ability to wear both of the best armor types- heavy plate AND far eastern sets.

leaving out a lot of other tools that SAM gets, but you get the picture -_-

Seriously, SAM is a little too perfect. It's like you don't need any other DD for anything if there's SAMs available. They can just fudo endlessly off eachother for ludicrous light SC damage. Some jobs can WS for higher base damage than SAM but that's irrelevant when SAMs are pushing out 12-30k lights.

If I could balance this game, I would nerf the hell out of Samurai. They have the strongest WS and best WS frequency? Fine, but they have to become glass cannons. Because in any game, high damage= low defense. Think Akuma from SF. I would take them off heavy plate armor first of all, chainmail/scale is the best they get and far eastern armor. Heavy Armor stays WAR/PLD/DRG/DRK/BST. We can't use Usukane, so they shouldn't get heavy armor. Fudo and Shoha would get a big nerf. Let SAMs produce their damage from skillchains, not weapon skills. Weapon Skill damage is all jobs like DRK and WAR have, but they marginalize those jobs by letting SAM have stronger weapon skills and better WS potential. Overwhelm should be nerfed to 1% per upgrade, 20% from a merit is ridiculous, I don't care if it's directionally dependent, it's a trait that adds thousands of damage to their WS for no reason.

I would make Hagakure/Sengokiri all 5min recasts. Hassozanshin is annoyinh as hell, you guys already sub /WAR and now you get an extra 15% DA trait on top of that. I would remove it, you get a huge enough bonus from SAM Main Hasso with your empy and reforged , no reason that hasso should also give you a crapload of DA(and +42 STR, i would remove that job point category and give you guys subtle blow w/ hasso). Also meditate needs to be scaled back, it can already give SAM close to 300% with current gear and now that new mantle that extends duration for 3 ticks.

So thus far:
Fudo/Shoha->Reduced fTP by 25%
Remove attack bonus from all SAM WS except Gekko.
Hassozanshin=Removed
Hasso job Point +STR->+Subtle Blow
Sengokiri/Hagakure->5min
Overwhelm 20% -> 5% but remove direction requirement
Wide armor selection->Remove them from Heavy plate sets
Meditate->Impose a cap on max# of ticks so that no more than 200% TP can be obtained.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other nerfs that I could think of for making SAM a balanced damage dealer. Currently, unlike most other DDs, SAM really has no flaws. They have high damage, moderate defenses. Compared to DRK which has piss-poor defense and moderate damage capabilities(DRK's raw WS damage and WS frequency will never compare to Fudo spam'd back to back for Light SCs for 15k+, Resolution doesn't chain into itself like Fudo does.)

To balance RDM, I'd do the following:

-Enspell II doesn't decay.

-New spell, Saber(Temper II), Triple Attack +10%, Accuracy +20.

-New Job Ability, allows next enhancing spell to be castable on party members(works for Bar/Temper/En/Spikes/Phalanx) recast: 3min

-Under composure, Sword Skill=A-, acceess to EX weapon skills like Sanguine Blade/Vorpal Blade, magic accuracy bonus with a sword equipped.

-New spell= Pain; reduces attack power of mob special attacks. Like the 'weapon skill damage +X' stat except in this case, it's -damage%.

-Regen III

-Refresh III

-Poison III, Poison IV, Poison V

-Poisona, Blindna, Paralyna, Viruna, Stona(no erase)

-New spell= Wall, gives magic shield ~650 to target party member.

Rdm id good enough don't need more

BRD-

-New JA Fortissimo; allows next song to overwrite a song. This is for times where you need to get a song on people but they have a longer duration song on. Say a WHM ran in to Boost-STR while you were doing JA songs, they now have a 7-8min March on, then for whatever reason Troub wears and now you can't overwrite that song with a lower duration Ballad. Or if you yourself have JA songs on but for some reason want to ballad yourself so you have more MP to throw out cures but you can't overwrite your JA marches with a Ballad until the duration wears down. Fortissimo would force the next song to overwrite it.

-Leitmotif, Recast 5min
Your next song cannot be dispelled.

Gjallarhorn has the spell Massacre Elegy on it. Slow+75%(can be boosted with Elegy gear to be 80%, 160% with Soul Voice. 100% base would be pretty ridic)

Durabdala 99 gets the spell Provenance Hymnus, reraise to party members in range with a 3min weakness timer.

So you want them to delete sam from the game ?

WAR has high attack and accuracy and weapon skill damage, low evasion and defense.

SAM has high attack, high multi hit, high evasion, high accuracy, attack speed, ws damage, TP gain, SC damage.

It's like the only SAM doesn't have is a self heal and a hate shed. Hell SAM even has their own stun, and immunity to TP moves as a 1hr. Like there are so few things that SAM has as a weakness. Too many strengths, so few weaknesses. Even their weaknesses aren't even weaknesses.

They even get Requiescat, and for a long time had a weapon that dealt non elemental damage, something that made DRK somewhat unique.

Can you really think of glaring weaknesses in SAM's toolbox compared to glaring weaknesses in PUP, BLU, DNC, THF, NIN, RUN, DRG. Like right of the bat I can think of dozens of flaws in all of those jobs such as too much JA delay, poor attack, mediocre weapon skills, lackluster SP abilities etc. For SAM? the best I can think of is they suck on NMs which are strong vs slashing, for which there's probably 1 or 2 of(compared to NMs strong to piercing which there are TONS of i.e Wyrms, Narakas, Wopket, Hydras etc), but even against an NM strong vs slashing they'd just Bow it up anyway with Yoichi.

Are you one of those person that think sam was the best dd forever since 75?

Only issue with sam is they made fudo too strong; sam isn't a high attack job, it's actually the 2hander dd with the LEAST attack(beside run).

High evasion cause evasion matters ?
High accuracy? Same thing as attack.

blanket damage taken+50% and damage dealt -60%

throw some challenge back in this game

Pre-fudo last year, when it was on emp only, Shoha was still ludicrously strong as a WS and it has an attack bonus. Remember, SAM is a DD job that can sub /WAR freely and get +attack from Berserk. Dragoon was married to /SAM because we don't have Store TP or native attack speed stances like SAM or DRK mains do. Therefore DRG missed out on Berserk. Not only did SE not give us an attack bonus WS, they gave us attack penalty weapon skills. Did they compensate by giving us anything else in the meantime? Not until very recently at least.

SAM has accuracy in that when they miss, they have 50-60% chance to swing again with 34 accuracy attached to it.

I wouldn't say SAM has weak att or acc at all because SAM's premier subjob has been /WAR for a while and /WAR covers those bases quite nicely.

If we're talking balance, you have to define balance based on other jobs that fill the same role, in the case physical close range damage.

SAM did not really have gaping holes in their gameplay that other damage dealers had. To compare SAM's problems with THF/DNC/DRG/PUP problems is folly, those jobs have huge flaws as damage dealers. The only 'flaw' i could even think of with SAM is lack of an AoE with their main weapon and that their WS are mostly 1hit so they miss more often compared to multihits which technically can still get partial hits when they 'miss'.


For example, to put it in perspective. DRK is categorized as SE as being your typical glass cannon. High att/low def, high enmity JAs, Souleater takes your HP etc. DRK has all of these gaping tradeoffs for their JAs and yet all of the benefits they gain from -20% defense, HP reduced per hit, high enmity, all of it still doesn't push them ahead of a SAM, which has NONE of those tradeoffs from their JAs. Where's the risk/reward with SAM? DRK has so many risks with using LR/Souleater and yet they are more prone to dying using it for not much increase in damage. SAM can WS away and deal incredible damage and yet not sacrifice any HP or defense to do so.