Obamas War Without Congress Approval

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Langues: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Obamas war without congress approval
Obamas war without congress approval
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 17 18 19
Offline
Posts: 4028
By Blazed1979 2014-09-15 14:53:46
Link | Citer | R
 
I'm amused by some holding religions to account for the actions of individuals or groups of individuals. I've said this before, that's like holding science to account for nutty professors wild experiments and lack of sound practice.

It sure is trendy to be anti-religion today.
 Odin.Jassik
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Jassik
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 14:58:26
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Most atheists don't think about complex morality in terms of right and wrong and I rarely see them claim the moral high ground the way religious people do. They aren't a collective with a common theme, they're just people who don't have a particular opinion about the intangible.

Well, agree with you until the last part; obviously you have an opinion, as you're an atheist; not an uncaring agnostic.

I care more about being labeled or grouped with people than I care about the questions. In my daily life I give zero shits about existential unknowns. I speak about atheists in terms of they because I don't consider myself atheist or agnostic, I'm a-religious.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:02:22
Link | Citer | R
 
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.
[+]
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-15 15:03:37
Link | Citer | R
 
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Most atheists don't think about complex morality in terms of right and wrong and I rarely see them claim the moral high ground the way religious people do. They aren't a collective with a common theme, they're just people who don't have a particular opinion about the intangible.

Well, agree with you until the last part; obviously you have an opinion, as you're an atheist; not an uncaring agnostic.

I care more about being labeled or grouped with people than I care about the questions. In my daily life I give zero shits about existential unknowns. I speak about atheists in terms of they because I don't consider myself atheist or agnostic, I'm a-religious.

I used to be; in years past I just never gave a damn.

But the older I get the more angry I get over religion being used as a weapon to deny rights or to justify heinous actions. From gay marriage to mistreatment of women to these ISIS scum who really should just be wiped off the planet.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: maldini
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-15 15:06:04
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Most atheists don't think about complex morality in terms of right and wrong and I rarely see them claim the moral high ground the way religious people do. They aren't a collective with a common theme, they're just people who don't have a particular opinion about the intangible.

Well, agree with you until the last part; obviously you have an opinion, as you're an atheist; not an uncaring agnostic.

I care more about being labeled or grouped with people than I care about the questions. In my daily life I give zero shits about existential unknowns. I speak about atheists in terms of they because I don't consider myself atheist or agnostic, I'm a-religious.

I used to be; in years past I just never gave a damn.

But the older I get the more angry I get over religion being used as a weapon to deny rights or to justify heinous actions. From gay marriage to mistreatment of women to these ISIS scum who really should just be wiped off the planet.

wow, so we agree. I could have said that word for word.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-15 15:06:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.

It does, but I've actually had a more violent reaction from religious friends and family discussing it from that angle than from that of an atheist.

Try explaining to someone sometime that "maybe aliens planted the human race here" makes more sense than the creation stories of the world's religions and they tend to get really upset.

But, really, when you think about it...isn't that all the notion of god is? Some being greater than us managed to help us get started.

I'm not averse to the idea that there's some higher intelligence out there in the universe.

I just don't buy into the dogma presented in any of the holy books as constituted.
 Odin.Jassik
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Jassik
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 15:07:07
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You can play semantics with me, but whether you call it evil or something else, there are things that even atheists deem "right" or "wrong".

It's more honorable to apply your own reasoning than pick and choose edicts from ancient texts inconsistently. That's the point, they make decisions based on personal views, the religious like to say they follow the word of God, but only follow the parts they like. Even if they arrive at the same conclusion, why does the religious person deserve more or even the same respect on that choice?
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-15 15:11:09
Link | Citer | R
 
Blazed1979 said: »
I'm amused by some holding religions to account for the actions of individuals or groups of individuals. I've said this before, that's like holding science to account for nutty professors wild experiments and lack of sound practice.

It sure is trendy to be anti-religion today.

Oh, yeah. Totally.

I'm totally "anti-religious" because it gets me girls and makes me popular on the internet.

Though it does remind me of this:

 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:13:20
Link | Citer | R
 
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You can play semantics with me, but whether you call it evil or something else, there are things that even atheists deem "right" or "wrong".

It's more honorable to apply your own reasoning than pick and choose edicts from ancient texts inconsistently. That's the point, they make decisions based on personal views, the religious like to say they follow the word of God, but only follow the parts they like. Even if they arrive at the same conclusion, why does the religious person deserve more or even the same respect on that choice?

You say it's more honorable to apply your own reasoning, but some truly horrible people have done just that with disastrous results. Respect is relative, though. I don't apply respect to people based on their religious views so much as how they act.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 42698
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 15:14:27
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.
Not at all, people are born as atheists and agnostics, they have no beliefs or knowledge, we instil those beliefs and knowledge into them, or the way I prefer: instil knowledge and let them conclude their own beliefs.

We are all without knowledge (even though there are those who claim that they know) of a higher being, whether somebody believes in a higher being or not though, and whether somebody believes in a religion (which doesn't necessarily mean they believe in a higher entity) are equally nonsensical.

Now if you're trying to say that somebody makes no sense when they try to claim that they know there is no god whatsoever, try to apply gnosticism to something we don't know, well they're *** stupid.

It is an argument of semantics however.

edit: plus have you never heard of secular humanism?
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:16:14
Link | Citer | R
 
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.
Not at all, people are born as atheists and agnostics, they have no beliefs or knowledge, we instil those beliefs and knowledge into them, or the way I prefer: instil knowledge and let them conclude their own beliefs.

We are all without knowledge (even though there are those who claim that they know) of a higher being, whether somebody believes in a higher being or not though, and whether somebody believes in a religion (which doesn't necessarily mean they believe in a higher entity) are equally nonsensical.

Now if you're trying to say that somebody makes no sense when they try to claim that they know there is no god whatsoever, try to apply gnosticism to something we don't know, well they're *** stupid.

It is an argument of semantics however.

Well, yeah, it's an argument of semantics because we don't agree on the definition of atheism anyway. We're not born atheists by my definition, because we don't come out screaming "THERE'S NO GOD!". We just come out screaming because we have no clue what's going on.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-15 15:17:11
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.
Not at all, people are born as atheists and agnostics, they have no beliefs or knowledge, we instil those beliefs and knowledge into them, or the way I prefer: instil knowledge and let them conclude their own beliefs.

We are all without knowledge (even though there are those who claim that they know) of a higher being, whether somebody believes in a higher being or not though, and whether somebody believes in a religion (which doesn't necessarily mean they believe in a higher entity) are equally nonsensical.

Now if you're trying to say that somebody makes no sense when they try to claim that they know there is no god whatsoever, try to apply gnosticism to something we don't know, well they're *** stupid.

It is an argument of semantics however.

Well, yeah, it's an argument of semantics because we don't agree on the definition of atheism anyway. We're not born atheists by my definition, because we don't come out screaming "THERE'S NO GOD!". We just come out screaming because we have no clue what's going on.

Clearly we come out screaming because there is no god.

If there was a just and loving god, our first action in the world would not be one of aural assault on all around us.
Offline
Posts: 42698
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 15:17:13
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
The religious certainly have their share of problems, but a lot of good is done in the name of religion that is ignored because people like to focus on the psychopaths. When atheists prove themselves to be the moral superiors of the world by their actions instead of their armchair philosophies, we can talk. As of now we have the same mixture of atheists that use it to do good as well as evil, just like the religious.
You can't use a non-belief in something to do right or wrong, that's such a ludicrous statement.
Offline
Posts: 42698
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 15:19:31
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Being a-religious makes more sense than being atheistic anyway.
Not at all, people are born as atheists and agnostics, they have no beliefs or knowledge, we instil those beliefs and knowledge into them, or the way I prefer: instil knowledge and let them conclude their own beliefs.

We are all without knowledge (even though there are those who claim that they know) of a higher being, whether somebody believes in a higher being or not though, and whether somebody believes in a religion (which doesn't necessarily mean they believe in a higher entity) are equally nonsensical.

Now if you're trying to say that somebody makes no sense when they try to claim that they know there is no god whatsoever, try to apply gnosticism to something we don't know, well they're *** stupid.

It is an argument of semantics however.

Well, yeah, it's an argument of semantics because we don't agree on the definition of atheism anyway. We're not born atheists by my definition, because we don't come out screaming "THERE'S NO GOD!". We just come out screaming because we have no clue what's going on.
Then your definition is wrong, just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right.

Very few people go around screaming that there is no god, and they're just as delusional as the religious people. But I don't expect any religious person to admit to that as then they'd be citing a fault with themselves instead of just attacking a minority group, which as history has proven: they just love to do.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:21:15
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Clearly we come out screaming because there is no god.

If there was a just and loving god, our first action in the world would not be one of aural assault on all around us.

Lol. You could say that about anything in life we go through, but most people have already taken all of that into account.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-15 15:23:36
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Clearly we come out screaming because there is no god.

If there was a just and loving god, our first action in the world would not be one of aural assault on all around us.

Lol. You could say that about anything in life we go through, but most people have already taken all of that into account.

Just an attempt at levity. =\
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:26:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Clearly we come out screaming because there is no god.

If there was a just and loving god, our first action in the world would not be one of aural assault on all around us.

Lol. You could say that about anything in life we go through, but most people have already taken all of that into account.

Just an attempt at levity. =\

My bad. I did find it funny though, so there you go.
 Odin.Jassik
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Jassik
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-15 15:28:08
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You can play semantics with me, but whether you call it evil or something else, there are things that even atheists deem "right" or "wrong".

It's more honorable to apply your own reasoning than pick and choose edicts from ancient texts inconsistently. That's the point, they make decisions based on personal views, the religious like to say they follow the word of God, but only follow the parts they like. Even if they arrive at the same conclusion, why does the religious person deserve more or even the same respect on that choice?

You say it's more honorable to apply your own reasoning, but some truly horrible people have done just that with disastrous results. Respect is relative, though. I don't apply respect to people based on their religious views so much as how they act.

I say it's more honorable simply because you have arrived at a conclusion through your own reasoning. The major gripe I have with religiosity is that it's used inconsistently. It makes it impossible for me to believe they are sincere in their beliefs and not just using it as a more socially acceptable podium to throw hateful language at people they don't like.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 42698
By Jetackuu 2014-09-15 15:31:06
Link | Citer | R
 
Basically: doing good things because it's the right thing to do > doing good things because fear of punishment or promise of reward.

But that would require us to quantify at least to an extent what is "good" and "better" etc.

But hey.
[+]
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:31:41
Link | Citer | R
 
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You can play semantics with me, but whether you call it evil or something else, there are things that even atheists deem "right" or "wrong".

It's more honorable to apply your own reasoning than pick and choose edicts from ancient texts inconsistently. That's the point, they make decisions based on personal views, the religious like to say they follow the word of God, but only follow the parts they like. Even if they arrive at the same conclusion, why does the religious person deserve more or even the same respect on that choice?

You say it's more honorable to apply your own reasoning, but some truly horrible people have done just that with disastrous results. Respect is relative, though. I don't apply respect to people based on their religious views so much as how they act.

I say it's more honorable simply because you have arrived at a conclusion through your own reasoning. The major gripe I have with religiosity is that it's used inconsistently. It makes it impossible for me to believe they are sincere in their beliefs and not just using it as a more socially acceptable podium to throw hateful language at people they don't like.

I agree with you in some ways. There are religions out there that don't demand you take their word for it and encourage free thought, but I'll admit they're probably rare.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 15:33:05
Link | Citer | R
 
Jetackuu said: »
Basically: doing good things because it's the right thing to do > doing good things because fear of punishment or promise of reward.

For once you say something about the topic that I agree with 100%.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-15 15:59:36
Link | Citer | R
 
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
You can play semantics with me, but whether you call it evil or something else, there are things that even atheists deem "right" or "wrong".

It's more honorable to apply your own reasoning than pick and choose edicts from ancient texts inconsistently. That's the point, they make decisions based on personal views, the religious like to say they follow the word of God, but only follow the parts they like. Even if they arrive at the same conclusion, why does the religious person deserve more or even the same respect on that choice?

You say it's more honorable to apply your own reasoning, but some truly horrible people have done just that with disastrous results. Respect is relative, though. I don't apply respect to people based on their religious views so much as how they act.

I say it's more honorable simply because you have arrived at a conclusion through your own reasoning. The major gripe I have with religiosity is that it's used inconsistently. It makes it impossible for me to believe they are sincere in their beliefs and not just using it as a more socially acceptable podium to throw hateful language at people they don't like.

It's a crutch for people who don't want to think for themselves. I have so much more respect for those theologists who actually put some TLC into their thoughts even I don't buy their broad assertions or feel they're inserting God into what essentially ends up looking like an deist point of view. If God created the universe then bailed does it even matter if God created it? From the human perspective? People want to know about their place.

Many of the Christian theologists I've read seem so distant from the Bible partly because of the inconsistency and intolerance that what they end up doing are philosophical exercises in morality using Jesus as an allegory for whatever point they're trying to come across.

Even dudes like Joel Olsteen are basically like yeah man, God is great, live your life, be empowered et al but lets not go into too much detail about what the text says because that stuffs scary and bad for business.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-15 16:06:41
Link | Citer | R
 
In a sick *** way I have to respect the fundamentalist for literally doing what the ultimate guide to life says to do if for no other reason than to show others how corrupt, fetid and toxic the foundations of these religions really are.

Nothing is exempt from change. Religions have changed with the times as everything in the universe has. The problem of course being when you refuse to change and start cribbing morality from the Middle Ages. I don't think most Atheists give a ***if you're a Unitarian Universalist or a Quaker or any of the other benign forms of Christianity.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 16:11:52
Link | Citer | R
 
Maybe, but it's not like modern-day morality is any better.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-15 16:13:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe, but it's not like modern-day morality is any better.

How so? Are you really going to argue Middle Age morality was in some fashion better than what we have today as imperfect as it is?
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-15 16:16:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe, but it's not like modern-day morality is any better.

How so? Are you really going to argue Middle Age morality was in some fashion better than what we have today as imperfect as it is?

No, I'm not saying it was all better. Just different. Better in some ways, worse in others.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-15 16:21:46
Link | Citer | R
 
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe, but it's not like modern-day morality is any better.

How so? Are you really going to argue Middle Age morality was in some fashion better than what we have today as imperfect as it is?

No, I'm not saying it was all better. Just different. Better in some ways, worse in others.

So basically humanity in a nutshell. A dynamic exercise in trying to make the world a 'better' place while breaking every piece of china in the process.

The problem of course being that fundamentalist religion is static and thus sees itself as superior no matter what the time. There is no room or need for change when the apocalypse is ever nigh.
[+]
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-15 18:22:01
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
How is it even possible to do evil with atheism?
The following atheists were good at it:

Napoleon Bonaparte
Kim Jong-il
Jeffrey Dahmer
Jim Jones
Benito Mussolini

And of course everyone's favorite atheist, Joseph Stalin.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-09-15 18:24:15
Link | Citer | R
 
Atheism =/= Personality Cults.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-15 18:31:48
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Atheism =/= Personality Cults.
Using atheism as part of your cult is still using atheism to do evil.
Especially when you target anyone who practices any religion.
First Page 2 3 ... 4 5 6 ... 17 18 19