Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

Only thing I'm throwing in here:

Pointing out that CT is a ***closer is a stupid argument. In what remotely serious content are you actually letting a DRG end a coordinated multi-step Radiance?

Just for the purposes of this post, I will set aside skillchain damage, AM3 loss, disengaged time, and every other factor that favors Trishula, and take the simulation numbers at face value without context.

Okay, so let's say you're great at farming abyssea. You can finish all 3 stages in 12 hours. You farm 3 million gil an hour consistantly. You do not dislike any of the content involved. This is pretty near best case for someone making a Rhongomiant.

Now, you can spend 12 hours on abyssea, 15 hours on base NMs, and 60 hours farming currency. That's a total of 87 hours involved in making a Rhongomiant. Since there's no meaningful supply of taupe stones on AH, let's add another 10 hours making the WS valorous. Since you're counting on a good QA valorous mail and hose in your highest difference scenario('kat stp trish vs kat qa valorous'), we can add another 50 hours worth of gil to get 150 dark matters. With your QA set That's a total investment of 147 hours to make a weapon that does 5483 DPS.

I can make an Aeonic from scratch, counting beads, in 10 hours. That's probably not realistic for most people, so let's use the gil value and a more typical beads value: 200m and 25 hours of bead farming(2 quetz an hour). Instead of QA valorous, you use DA valorous, with a much lighter investment of ~5 hours of stone farming. Both setups still need stardiver sets, but this one doesn't need a Camlann's set. This gets you 5324 DPS.

You're looking at a difference of 50 hours invested, for a 2.98% gain in damage. If that were something every 'serious' player was willing to do, we never would've had people running around in NQ adhemar. Prior to price drop, how many did you see in full HQ..? It's comparable time spent : DPS gain.

Now, throw in the differences we disregarded earlier and consider that even if you are right and Rhongomiant is better, it's by a factor of less than 2.98% in these circumstances. That's a completely horrible rate of return on your effort. It's perfectly reasonable to mention the effort, even without assuming it is worse. If you have a shell capable of farming Aeonic without paying, the gap increases from 50 hours to over 100.

If you ever do anything that requires self skillchaining, you still need a Trishula. If you do skillchains with a partner, you still need Trishula. In these cases, the gap increase to a full 147 hours. If you farm gil slower than 3m/hour or spend more than 12 hours in abyssea, it gets even higher. It's anything but a modest amount of effort.

I dont think anyones calling Rho outright bad, but that it shouldnt be one of your main goals in terms of other DRG remas except for maybe ryu, gungir has a niche in areas where you need acc and it offers another sc prop ws that doesnt do -terrible- dmg either. Trish has a niche in its tp bonus, stp, and adding sc option to polearms best WS aswell as giving another tier SC. Both of these would be a better initial investment than Rho which just provides a small DPS increase that could be overcome by either needing more acc and/or applying SC dmg.

Ryunohige was best by a massive margin of superiority(~50% DPS difference) for a loooog loong time. Ryu was what enabled DRG to compete with top tier DDs of the era.

I had mine for much of that time and they were good times for DRG. By no means was it a waste, regardless of where Ryu stands today. I more than got my monies worth outta it. Joining Dainslef then doing very well at ADL made me many more mythics worth of gil. And I question if I would have been invited to it if I didn't have Ryu at the time. I miss ADL sometimes. Such gil and such competitive DDs. And I was right up there with them, often winning parses with some of the best players on my server. Cause I had Ryu.

Rhongomiant has never enjoyed such massive superiority. Ever. The latest REMA update has managed to bring it up to the level of being competitive, and some times marginally better, if you ignore, you know. reality. SC potential, AM3 costs, etc.

Also, Paraphrasing, but:"Don't tell people not to waste their time, cause everything is a waste of time" is a very poor argument for anything. If people are going to make them anyway, then they should be aware of what they're doing. They should be warned. Then if they choose to do so anyway, that's their choice.

It sucks to be uninformed, make a wep thinking it's gonna be amazing, and then find it it wasn't what you thought. People quit this game over that sorta thing.

Now I don't think Rhongomiant is quit the game level bad. It's not. But if someone's going to make it, they should know the general consensus on where it stands. If SE buffs it later, they won the update lottery. and if not, they knew what they were doing. SO any disappointment should be minor.

Key point? You can make a new REMA AFTER SE buffs it. There's no need to play update lottery.

So you think people should make poor investments? Why?

And I don't believe I misread anything. But I do think you are possibly not making a lot of sense.

No he's arguing about making what's most practical. The DRK comparison doesn't even work because Liberator, Apocalypse and Ragnarok are all very different styles of weapons (and not even the same weapon type.) Trishula and Rhongo operate mostly the same way, and Trishula isn't even """BiS""" which has been said a few times in this thread already.

Yes. You should make what's most practical. You should make Trishula first over Rhong since its a better time and gil investment, as outlined by the last 10 pages that has beaten this topic to death. Fair point about the DRK comparison.

It's perfectly reasonable to state that Rhon is a poor time investment. Spicy does this. But he goes too far when he starts saying "Rhon should be only made if you can't get Trishula". If someone already has Trishula and wants to make a poor investment in Rhon for the times when it does happen to outparse Trishula (which Katriina outlined, before the disaster that was including SC damage), then they should. Spicy's above statement does not convey that. He doesn't make any mention of Gungnir and Ryunohige being poor investments at this time (which they are). Seems biased to me.

He says Gungnir is the easy to make option, that you could call "good enough" and literally calls Ryu the worst. Those should both make it pretty clear there are stronger options.

And biased? You do realized that before the various Rhongo discussion in on these forums he had Rhongomiant listed as first place uncontested. Only after the evaluating the information presented here did he update to the current guides polearm hierarchy.

I'm not sure where this bias is supposed to be coming from. If he'd had a bias I'd have thought it would have been towards maintaining his prior status quo. Most biases tend to be that way.

it's almost like someone who understands basic logic can read his reasoning for why the weapon isn't worth making, decide on their own they feel it is worth making, and make it anyway

None of the above “commenters” spent time/effort to show everyone how biased the description is on Guide and how it’s discouraging potential players from making it.

I do concede that the test was poorly designed apparently from the bombardment of various people (including my friend) about the use of CT/RAD cycle despite me breaking down why I picked it up in the first place but I digress.

Did any of the counter argument offered a solution to isolation? No! Did anyone bother to do another test? No

If people don’t realize that I’m not here to cater for their feelings about the debate then that’s their problem.

No other guide ever mentions this BS.
Point out a single discription in any guide where they mention stuff like that.

private messages from people asking me to keep researching this