Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
It's Oprah approved. No stopping it now.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » You do realize that you don't need to leave the states to do this do you not? I've said "domestic or otherwise" a few times in relation to this. Going to India and exploiting poor people to do it just makes it worse. Lakshmi.Flavin said: » How you can not think your viewpoint is silly when we have plenty of evidence showing that anyone having a child whether by natural birth, surrogacy or adoption can be good or shitty parents blows my mind. I've said this is an issue I have a personal tie to, haven't I? Maybe I'll reword myself. While it does not by default make you a bad parent to use a surrogate, I still maintain that it makes you a selfish and arrogant one. And let's not forget that the definition of "good parent" is extremely *** subjective to boot. Also, you seem to be trying to say that I think people who have children naturally are automatically good parents, or that people are bad people just because they can't have children naturally. Neither is the case. volkom said: » Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The idea of a surrogate isn't the problem. It's inadvertently exploiting vulnerable, desperate women to be your breeding machine that's the problem. Women who will be treated about as well as cows on a farm for the sake of efficiency. They're both problems to me. Surrogacy is the very height of human arrogance. "Well, my wife and I can't have children directly, and even though there are plenty of children who need us, I'm going to go out of my way to stick our genetic material into a third party so that my genetic material is what grows up happy and healthy." ...and then they turn around and "get the most for their money" by sticking their white bread test tube baby into a woman (or, hell, probably a girl) who doesn't know any better and views it as her best choice in life? Did not watch Friends nearly enough to know what's going on, that video provides no context and while it's clear she's giving them up, I don't know why. But it still supports additional (potential) emotional trauma to the surrogate giving up a child that she has carried and been hormonally tied to, which is yet another downside. Phoebe was a surrogate mom cuz her best friend couldn't do it naturally
I thought it was her cousin or relative.
something like that. was a long time ago since i watched that episode
Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » You do realize that you don't need to leave the states to do this do you not? I've said "domestic or otherwise" a few times in relation to this. Going to India and exploiting poor people to do it just makes it worse. Lakshmi.Flavin said: » How you can not think your viewpoint is silly when we have plenty of evidence showing that anyone having a child whether by natural birth, surrogacy or adoption can be good or shitty parents blows my mind. I've said this is an issue I have a personal tie to, haven't I? Maybe I'll reword myself. While it does not by default make you a bad parent to use a surrogate, I still maintain that it makes you a selfish and arrogant one. And let's not forget that the definition of "good parent" is extremely *** subjective to boot. Finally some sense out of you! Selfish and arrogant? Well at least we've established that this is purely your opinion and ignored as such easily enough. Being a good parent isn't all that subjective. How you get there is more of the subjective part people argue over. It's why I'm not opposed to surrogacy as a means of childbirth. Thr article also went out of its way to say that some parents chose to take care of their surrogate financially but the argument still comes back to one of exploitation. Especially considering the remote relationship and the state of the third-world.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » It's Oprah approved. No stopping it now. The clinic and the founder that outsources surrogacy was. I still wonder how in the Hell this woman has a following, considering that her own African school has faced controversies over abuse, sexual and otherwise, at the hands of staff, parents unable to see their kids that are enrolled, plugging Oz and the 'Million Little Pieces' author, etc.
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » this is purely your opinion and ignored as such easily enough. ...you, actually, have a very long and illustrious history of not being able to ignore my opinions. ^^; Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Being a good parent isn't all that subjective. Are you *** kidding me? "Good parenting" is about as subjective as it gets. It could be someone's opinion that because I'm me, my parents were awful. And it would in turn be my opinion that they haven't got a clue. And that's just ever so barely scratching the surface. Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » It's Oprah approved. No stopping it now. The clinic and the founder that outsources surrogacy was. I still wonder how in the Hell this woman has a following, considering that her own African school has faced controversies over abuse, sexual and otherwise, at the hands of staff, parents unable to see their kids that are enrolled, plugging Oz and the 'Million Little Pieces' author, etc. Bad enough as it stands, but when they're like 'hey this great' to people that take their word as the voice of reason, ugh.
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Thanks to Oprah, we have endless reruns of Dr. Phil.
A fate worse than being waterboarded.
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Thanks to Oprah, we have endless reruns of Dr. Phil. A fate worse than being waterboarded. And how does that make you feel !
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: » ...you, actually, have a very long and illustrious history of not being able to ignore my opinions. ^^; Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Are you *** kidding me? "Good parenting" is about as subjective as it gets. It could be someone's opinion that because I'm me, my parents were awful. And it would in turn be my opinion that they haven't got a clue. And that's just ever so barely scratching the surface. I wouldn't think your parents were awful. I don't even think you're an awful person. I think your a stubborn idiot who would rather force his ways on others than actually figure out whats best for the whole but yeah. Other than that you seem like a decent enough person who could have had pretty good parents. Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I don't think you know what either of those words mean to describe that or I don't think you would have used them lol... Looks more like one of those I saw that used that way in a sentance before! Now you're just being overly literal for the sake of of a quick jibe. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I don't think you know what either of those words mean to describe that or I don't think you would have used them lol... Looks more like one of those I saw that used that way in a sentance before! Now you're just being overly literal for the sake of of a quick jibe. Have you ever met the people that are into adopting kids?
It makes eugenics seem like a good thing. "We only want a Vietnamese girl between the ages of 1-3 with blue eyes." Adoption should be first in, first out. Then it would be more like having a child through natural means. That's one of the problems with adoption I mentioned earlier. People start off with the fresh babies, whittle out the desirable races then for anyone who ages out of the sweet spot or are black/hispanic/*dark* you're ***.
Might as well walk into the incinerators right now.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Have you ever met the people that are into adopting kids? It makes eugenics seem like a good thing. "We only want a Vietnamese girl between the ages of 1-3 with blue eyes." Adoption should be first in, first out. Then it would be more like having a child through natural means. Complete with the mandatory trip to Maury when the baby isn't your race.
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Wait a minute, you're telling me adoption isn't like Different Strokes?
/shocked
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » I don't think you know what either of those words mean to describe that or I don't think you would have used them lol... Looks more like one of those I saw that used that way in a sentance before! Now you're just being overly literal for the sake of of a quick jibe. Corrections from the frequent your/you're offender! Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » The idea of a surrogate isn't the problem. It's inadvertently exploiting vulnerable, desperate women to be your breeding machine that's the problem. Women who will be treated about as well as cows on a farm for the sake of efficiency. This crusade of yours Ramyrez seems completely irrational to me. Leaving aside people treated like cattle in India, which I don't think anyone disagrees on being inhuman, surrogacy is not a wrong practice. Even if your point was that Earth is overcrowded which is certainly true, well even under population control 1 child per family should be allowed, so. And passing down genetic material is one of the very basics of every life form. In other news today:
Quote: The University of Virginia fraternity chapter at the center of Rolling Stone magazine's retracted article "A Rape on Campus" said on Monday that it planned to sue the magazine for what it called "reckless" reporting that hurt its reputation. The chapter of Phi Kappa Psi said in a statement that it would pursue all available legal action, a day after a team from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism concluded the magazine failed to follow basic journalistic safeguards in publishing the story. I'm sure y'all remember this story. Adoption and standard childbirth aren't mutually exclusive. Adoption is just a huge pain in the *** many don't want to deal with or fully understand.
When I finally ascend to overlord though I'll be sure to adopt a multi-ethnic cadre of children and summarily refer to them as the Allied Forces of Altana. Look out Jolie, I'm planning a coup.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » And passing down genetic material is one of the very basics of every life form. "Natural urges" are a poor excuse for anything. Also, one could argue that if you can't have a baby, nature has dictated that; you're actually defying nature by trying to force the issue! Valefor.Sehachan said: » seems completely irrational to me I think it's irrational to insist upon having another human carry your baby; even though you're physically unable to do so rather than adopting a child who desperately needs a loving home. Opinions! Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Adoption and standard childbirth aren't mutually exclusive. Adoption is just a huge pain in the *** many don't want to deal with or fully understand. I would submit that if you can "deal with and understand" surrogacy, you can figure out adoption, too. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Have you ever met the people that are into adopting kids? It makes eugenics seem like a good thing. "We only want a Vietnamese girl between the ages of 1-3 with blue eyes." Adoption should be first in, first out. Then it would be more like having a child through natural means. Complete with the mandatory trip to Maury when the baby isn't your race. She was decried as a racist by some for wanting the clinis to pay for their mistake. The clinic offered an apology and a partial refund lol. Ah sperm clinics. The height of human existence.
Seraph.Ramyrez said: » I think it's irrational to insist upon having another human carry your baby; even though you're physically unable to do so rather than adopting a child who desperately needs a loving home. Opinions! Surrogacy and adoption are really two different subjects, though. Though they may serve similar purposes, they are very different approaches. I agree, adoption should be more prominent and we need to address it's systemic problems, but surrogacy shouldn't be taken off the table. Make adoption a more appealing option for people, then we can address the issues with surrogacy.
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