Random Politics & Religion #00

That's not at all what I said. I'm not going to demand you back up your statement because your statement will be factually correct, but fundamentally flawed.

You want me to show you all the companies that have gone bankrupt and evaporated, as though that's the only way a company can die. You want me to prove that it was executive greed when all it takes is a bit of spin to blame it on everything from thunderstorms in Kenya to those lazy, filthy working class people nominally employed by the company. You want very specific criteria so you can bounce them back effortlessly.

My point was a general one: people, whether rich or poor, are terrible planners. If I point at a company that hasn't been dismantled, as far as you're concerned, that's proof I'm wrong. If I can't make a list of dead companies that's longer than your list of living companies, that's proof I'm wrong. Neither of those proofs are true, they're distractions. So if you're really that neck-deep, and you are, and I have every reason to believe you are that deep because of how your parents made their money, it's not going to be productive to argue it.

I don't enjoy being at loggerheads for the sake of itself. I'll argue someone's intractable position only when I feel the argument matters. Getting down to pointless minutiae when the argument is "People can't plan for ***," which shouldn't be a revelation to an accountant, is not worth it.

Long way of saying "capitalism is evil"

It's not a being in and of itself; it can't be "evil".

It certainly brings out very terrible things in some people that could be characterized as such, however. That's not to say the entire concept is flawed. It just needs regulated.

Whatever. Again, I've got things to do this afternoon so I'll be backing off a bit.

I just think there's a middle ground between "succeed at all costs and others be damned" and "doing our best to see no one is suffering needlessly". Unchecked capitalism is a bit too much of the former.

I'm afraid I got some bad news for you: People will be evil terrible scum no matter what form of economy exist.

Yeah, I predicted that response. Edited a bit.

I think capitalism is fair. Just like life it can suck but there are moments that make it worthwhile.

I rather my success or failure be on myself not on government economy or whatever else people do to succeed at life.

And as always if you don't like it go to Russia.

Capitalism is a concept that works, primarily for Americans, from the Americanized version.

However, just because something works, doesn't mean it there aren't any flaws. The key to being functional is that the methods that make it work, and the benefits to society, is greater collectively than all of it's collective flaws.

lehman brothers
worldcom
pacific gas and electric
refco
indymac
delphi
bernie madof
healthsouth
stanford finacial
tyco
arthur anderson
bearn stearns
baniter
adelphia
global crossing
HiH insurance
urban bank
martha stewart
MCI
amp'd mobile
AND SOLYNDRA!!!

Good old Adelphia from Coudersport, Pennsylvania.

But I need my solar panels to save precious Mother Earth !

Actually:

You were the one who created the specific criteria, not me.

Whatever you say Lordgrim.

You are just posting random companies/people now.

Out of your list, none of them fall under the criteria Onorgul outlined in my above post.

you owe me sixty companies deadbeat!


edit: every single one of them fall under the criteria outlined

You posted 21 companies, learn to count old fart.

And I know what you are doing anyway.

well it could be argued that martha stewart didn't bankrupt her own company during the insider trading debacle that sent her to prison so I will settle for 60

Believe it or not:

Lehman Brothers, Worldcom, Pacific Gas and Electric, Refco, Indymac, Global Crossing, HiH Insurance, MCI, and Solyndra all had executives who owned less than 20% of total stock in those companies. Control under federal guidelines signify 20% or greater ownership of publicly traded companies.

Delphi, Healthsouth, Baniter, Standford Financial, Tyco, Bearn Sterns, and Amp'd Mobile do not treat their employees/customers "so badly that their entire enterprise falls apart"

Arthur Anderson was a private partnership, not a publicly traded company. It also did not treat their employees/customers "so badly that their entire enterprise falls apart"

Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart are not companies.

Good try though.

Now you're just picking nits and trying to redefine the criteria. He never said anything about percentage of ownership

and the name of the company is Bernie Madoff Securities LLC you *** welcher

Yeah, see, nit-picking the minutiae instead of addressing the real point. And you wonder why I refuse to argue even after I explicitly stated what you'd do.

Yes, that's the only reason you refuse to argue.

well yeah but I'm pretty sure by now he realizes I have another list of another hundred companies...

He was defining companies who's executives had more ownership of the company than other shareholders, which in legal terms, is over 50%.

I went further back to lower that to controlling interest, which is 20%. That enabled more companies to be classified under Onorgul's specific criteria.

In that case:

Still not a publicly traded company, nor did he have control over the investments he was invested in.

But, I'll let that slide for now:

1) FireEye, Inc.
2) Delta Air Lines, Inc.
3) Whiting Petroleum Corp.

Bring it.

Make sure they fall under the 3 criteria that Onorgul stated.

Well, yes and no.
There are also a lot of people who work as hard or harder, and/or put as much or more effort in.

As much as people like to say it, hard work and effort aren't the only factors. Willingness to take risks and blind dumb luck also play roles.

"Winners make their own luck. 'Murrica!"

That's why I said "became" I never stated "and stayed successful"

Blind luck only gets you so far. Too many risks will lead to ruin.

Knowing what to do, what your strengths are, and how to sell it are major factors in becoming successful.

You cant' change the rules half way through the game and then declare yourself the winner.

You lose,you get nothing, good day sir.jpg

k?

Who changed the rules?

you did, you said post companies that were bankrupted for their own gain and I listed twenty and then you backpeddled and said it had to fall under onur's criteria which you also didn't read correctly.

stick a comma before "rather than" and see if it helps