Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-11-20 15:01:46
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.
What kind of assurances do you want?

can we get them to wear those exploding collars from "The Running Man" so that if one of them does something stupid it kills everyone else?
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-20 15:10:33
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Threats to kill innocents before by the Mexican cartel made Annoymous back down before, iirc.

Didn't hear or read about that one.

It's a valid analogy though because the Cartels actually run remarkably similar to ISIS in many, many ways.

Then again, given Anonymous' "collective" status and that the people are likely separate entities, I guess we'll see.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-20 15:10:54
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.
What kind of assurances do you want?

can we get them to wear those exploding collars from "The Running Man" so that if one of them does something stupid it kills everyone else?

***.

Just make that universal.
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-11-20 15:50:53
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.
What kind of assurances do you want?

For me, for starters just checking against known Federal/UN lists for terror red flags is not enough. I want most of there lives, careers, education, relationships verified. No loners that other people cannot at least vouch for. Preferential treatment for people with relatives already living in the US that will also be vetted.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-20 15:53:16
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The love of your life friendzoned you? You can't come to america!
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-20 16:01:55
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Anyway, latest news say Russia killed 600 isis fighters in 4 days and destroyed 15 oil wells and some hundreds petrol tanks for a damage of 1.5mil$ per day.

Putin leading the parse.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-20 16:12:36
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Putin leading the parse.

Mad DPS, yo.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-20 16:15:52
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Italy for now is only doing buffs and then goes afk.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-11-20 16:53:23
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Ramyrez said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.
What kind of assurances do you want?

can we get them to wear those exploding collars from "The Running Man" so that if one of them does something stupid it kills everyone else?

***.

Just make that universal.

yes, by family. There shouldnt be any Mcveys now
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-11-20 17:13:35
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.
What kind of assurances do you want?

For me, for starters just checking against known Federal/UN lists for terror red flags is not enough. I want most of there lives, careers, education, relationships verified. No loners that other people cannot at least vouch for. Preferential treatment for people with relatives already living in the US that will also be vetted.
I haven't been able to find any official documents that outline the entirety of the process, but it's clear from the multiple sources that summarize it that checking against agency lists is only once piece. Their biographical information is already checked at multiple times through the process to catch any inconsistencies in documentation. They're also interviewed multiple times to ensure consistency in that information and all this info is verified as well.

Those with relatives here seem to already have a faster track to entry, but I don't believe those people are subject to the same scrutiny (unless they too came in as refugees).
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By Jassik 2015-11-20 17:20:10
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.

Do you have any understanding of our current amnesty system? Tourists from dozens of countries have basically no vetting process, amnesty/residency applicants face already pretty comprehensive vetting. It's the enforcement that's lax.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-20 19:59:53
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This is a credibility issue for dumb-o-crates. No one believes the government is capable or willing to screen them thoroughly.



Obama takes it in the neck on this one as well

 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-11-20 20:20:05
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Who cares what people "believe". Aren't you the one always going off about feels?
 
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-20 20:32:49
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Belgium has raised their terror alert level from 3 to 4 out of 4 in Brussels. Salah Abdeslam is believed to be hiding somewhere in Brussels and is looking for a way back to Syria.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-11-20 21:05:37
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I'm sure he's a christian right?
 
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-11-20 21:21:45
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Josiahkf said: »
Imagine if every democratic mind died tomorrow and their ideals with them; what would the USA look like in 100 years, free from that ideology.

And if the same thing happened instead for the republican mindset. I'm curious what both of the 2115 countries would look like. Would they be eerily similar? Both wide contrasts?

Honestly? Both scenarios scare me. IMO, having two opposing sides deadlocked in Washington is actually less harmful then letting one side run rampant.
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-11-20 21:33:32
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Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Wtf you talking about dipshit?

Here is my position. Wow that's so absolute. Let in refugees but give us assurances of a good vetting system that's puts our security first. Wow. I am such a hard liner.

Do you have any understanding of our current amnesty system? Tourists from dozens of countries have basically no vetting process, amnesty/residency applicants face already pretty comprehensive vetting. It's the enforcement that's lax.

He has no idea what the current vetting system is, as he has repeatedly demonstrated. If you were to ask him to explain the step by step process for admitting refugees, he would run away, just like nausi.
 
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-11-21 09:12:03
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
No one believes the government is capable or willing to screen them thoroughly.]

that smells like work...

I'm sure they will instead use the lowest bidding pre approved minority/disabled owned sub contractor that took the appropriate administrators to the strip club for lunch and paid all the necessary bribes....

 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-21 09:29:42
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Josiahkf said: »
Imagine if every democratic mind died tomorrow and their ideals with them; what would the USA look like in 100 years, free from that ideology.

And if the same thing happened instead for the republican mindset. I'm curious what both of the 2115 countries would look like. Would they be eerily similar? Both wide contrasts?

Honestly? Both scenarios scare me. IMO, having two opposing sides deadlocked in Washington is actually less harmful then letting one side run rampant.
I honestly don't think that either extreme is best for the nation, I prefer if democrats/liberals deal with mainly social issues and Republicans deal with mainly economic issues. It's when either side decides to cross over to the other issue that ***really hits the fan.
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By charlo999 2015-11-21 09:34:18
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm sure he's a christian right?

Because this is what really matters, somehow. Muslism = bad, muslism children = terrorist, muslism women = terrorist.

Block/Deport them all because that's what true christians do, who cares about helping when I should only be caring about myself and increasing my own wealth, we know that's true christian values like hating on gays and burning down abortion clinics.


- Seriously -

Stop pulling the christian card, it means nothing. Nobody cares about your religion when you don't even try to follow the teachings, if at least you were a reference when it comes to christianity your argument could maybe have a little weight.

Wow, if this is what you think being a Christian (or trying to fit this to his faith) is you should pretty much stop posting anything ever again about this subject until you go and do some real research.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-11-21 09:36:17
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charlo999 said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm sure he's a christian right?

Because this is what really matters, somehow. Muslism = bad, muslism children = terrorist, muslism women = terrorist.

Block/Deport them all because that's what true christians do, who cares about helping when I should only be caring about myself and increasing my own wealth, we know that's true christian values like hating on gays and burning down abortion clinics.


- Seriously -

Stop pulling the christian card, it means nothing. Nobody cares about your religion when you don't even try to follow the teachings, if at least you were a reference when it comes to christianity your argument could maybe have a little weight.

Wow, if this is what you think being a Christian is you should pretty much stop posting anything ever again about this subject until you go and do some real research.
He is being factitious....
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By Jassik 2015-11-21 09:38:50
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charlo999 said: »
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm sure he's a christian right?

Because this is what really matters, somehow. Muslism = bad, muslism children = terrorist, muslism women = terrorist.

Block/Deport them all because that's what true christians do, who cares about helping when I should only be caring about myself and increasing my own wealth, we know that's true christian values like hating on gays and burning down abortion clinics.


- Seriously -

Stop pulling the christian card, it means nothing. Nobody cares about your religion when you don't even try to follow the teachings, if at least you were a reference when it comes to christianity your argument could maybe have a little weight.

Wow, if this is what you think being a Christian is you should pretty much stop posting anything ever again about this subject until you go and do some real research.

Going by how many choose to represent themselves, a lot of people seem to think that is what being a Christian is. I'd sooner say they aren't Christians than say those things are Christian, even in jest, but I think he's only about half joking.
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By charlo999 2015-11-21 09:45:40
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Being a Christian isn't really a blanket statement to put on people. Rather trying to 'be Christ like' is when a person is being a Christian. No one can do that all the time because being Christ is unobtainable because everyone submits to pride at some point. In which case when a person isn't saying or doing things Christ like he isn't being chriatian. It's not a straight forward label.
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By Jassik 2015-11-21 10:41:05
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charlo999 said: »
Being a Christian isn't really a blanket statement to put on people. Rather trying to 'be Christ like' is when a person is being a Christian. No one can do that all the time because being Christ is unobtainable because everyone submits to pride at some point. In which case when a person isn't saying or doing things Christ like he isn't being chriatian. It's not a straight forward label.

And pointing out that being a Muslim works the same way is met with some pretty disgusting xenophobia from the same Christians he was criticizing.

Truly, a disturbingly large amount of the world's problems simply go away if religion does.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-11-21 11:09:50
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Hey if I put down a bowl of M&Ms and told you that one percent of them could be poisonous, how many would you eat?
All of them.
You'd willingly eat poison then. Good job! Anything for the cause of liberalism.
A less than 100% chance that 1% of a bowl of M&Ms (which probably has less than 100 M&Ms in it)?

That's more like eating M&M for the cause of probability and statistics.

Strangers Have The Best Candy!

I'm sure that's the lesson you will be teaching your children Mil...>.>
I guess it depends on the approach I take with Halloween.
Shiva.Nikolce said: »

But M&Ms are inanimate objects and can't fundamentally change their own nature... so then it becomes a question of your own trust in the person handing them to you.

If I bought a sealed bag of M&Ms and Nausi said he heard the green ones were poison, then it's a question of how much do I trust the manufacturer vs the sanity/reliability of the person making the statement.

But if we're talking about refugees that could theoretically change their essential nature and become terrorists like the boston bombers then should we seal up our borders and not let anyone in?

and then why stop there? let's start kicking everyone's door down because timothy mcvey wasn't a syrian refugee or a muslim or an M&M but he was still very much a terrorist and went bat ***crazy and killed a bunch of people.

So the real question is

Do you want to be paranoid? Are you going to be afraid of everyone because some people are ***?
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-11-21 12:03:33
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Entering the U.S. as refugees would be the hardest way for would-be terrorists
CNN

The relevant parts of the article:
Quote:
How does a refugee get into the U.S.?
Refugees must undergo an 18- to 24-month screening process, minimum, that the United Nations' refugee arm oversees. And that's before individual countries even begin to consider a refugee's application and conduct their own additional interviews and background checks.

The screening process generally includes multiple interviews, background checks and an extensive cross-referencing process that tests refugee's stories against others and accounts from sources on the ground in their home country.

Throughout that process, U.N. officials and local government officials in temporary host countries like Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon look to determine the legitimacy of asylum seekers' claims and ensure that they meet the criteria of a refugee, including that they are not and have not been involved in any fighting or terrorist activities.

Refugees also have their retinas scanned and have their fingerprints lifted.

Christopher Boian, a spokesman for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, called the process "stringent" and "long and complex."

"If at any stage in that process there is ever the slightest shadow of a doubt or the slightest whisper of suspicion, they are removed from the process. That is that," Boian said.

"The very, very few Syrian refugees who are accepted and referred for consideration for resettlement in another country -- there simply is no more closely scrutinized population on earth these days," he added.

That's because other countries have so far pledged to resettle just 159,000 of the more than 4 million Syrian refugees -- setting an extremely high bar for resettlement.

And refugees aren't automatically considered for resettlement: only the most vulnerable refugees -- such as torture victims, female heads of household, people with serious medical conditions and other especially vulnerable groups.

So after they go through that process by the U.N., the U.S. does an additional screening?
That's right. After a rigorous screening process and several interviews carried out by the U.N. refugee agency, refugees the U.S. agrees to consider for resettlement have to undergo an additional interview, medical evaluation and security screening.

According to one U.S. government official, there's an additional layer of vetting that's specific to Syrian applicants, including special briefings for interviewers and information from the U.S. intelligence community.

The security screening involves checks against several government agencies' databases and terrorist watch lists using biographic and biometric information. It's a process Mark Toner, a State Department spokesman, recently called "the most stringent security process for anyone entering the United States."

And Syrian refugees get an additional, more targeted layer of screening involving the U.S. Intelligence agency, according to a government official.

READ: How do Syrian refugees get into the U.S.?

Sounds pretty rigorous. How does the refugee process stack up to other ways of getting into the U.S.?
The refugee program is simply the toughest way for any foreigner to enter the U.S. legally.

For most people, getting a tourist visa to enter the United States is much easier, but still requires an in-person interview and involves a typical background check. The process takes anywhere from a few days to a couple months.

But there's an even easier way to get into the U.S. if you're a citizen of one of 38 mostly European countries, including France and Belgium.

Travelers from those countries don't even need to first apply for a visa to get into the United States. They buy a ticket, grab their passport, and undergo the usual screening from U.S. customs officials when they land in the U.S. They are still checked against security databases before they get on the plane and upon arrival.

The fact that most of the Paris attack suspects were European citizens who would have had access to the visa waiver program is setting off some alarm bells. At least one of the eight Paris attackers likely would have been able to travel to the U.S. under the visa waiver program, U.S. national security officials told CNN Friday....

Sen. Angus King, an independent from Maine who sits on the intelligence committee, said it "would be much harder" for a terrorist to get into the country through the refugee program than with a passport from one of the 38 countries in the visa waiver program.

"(The refugee process) would take 18 months to two years. Under the visa waiver program, it could take 24 hours," King told CNN in a phone interview. "The target of our work should be strengthening the visa waiver program."
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