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America's Tax Burden to Rise
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-24 23:53:00
Could just simply be that some people don't like to watch others starve, including children and expect society to take care of everyone, including the weak, not just the strong and those who use others.
But you know, everything is a conspiracy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-24 23:54:25
Could just simply be that some people don't like to watch others starve, including children and expect society to take care of everyone, including the weak, not just the strong and those who use others.
But you know, everything is a conspiracy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't believe in your hell.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-24 23:54:42
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't...
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-05-24 23:56:30
Perhaps the original intent on giving welfare to the 'breeders' was that it would create cheap labor by the time the offspring turned 18. Only problem is they wanted everything without working for it and refused to work cheaply. Welfare arose primarily from the Great Depression. But it ultimately comes down to sexism: a man can go out and work, a woman is only good for squirting out spawn and subsequently feeding them. The system is too huge to adequately police, so the cheats are rampant and, since we've had most of this stuff in place for the best part of a century now, entrenched in certain bloodlines.
But it isn't a matter of not wanting to work cheaply. Welfare frauds don't want to work at all (except they're often stupid enough to go to considerable time, expense, and danger in pursuit of some illegal goal that, at the end of the endeavor, earns them less than just doing some day labor in that same period). Is that meaningfully different from screwing your employees by refusing to work them the hours they're willing and able to do so as to keep them safely expendable? Or going hat in hand to Congress to explain that America just wouldn't be America without Goldmann-Sachs still turning a profit and ruining the stock market?
Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Like hell it was. Even Jefferson was arguing to get rid of the governmental interference that had ruled the American economy for 200 years prior to independence. We've never been laissez-faire and thank merciful heaven for that.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-24 23:56:41
Could just simply be that some people don't like to watch others starve, including children and expect society to take care of everyone, including the weak, not just the strong and those who use others.
But you know, everything is a conspiracy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to hell is really paved with the corpses of the people you step over to get there.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:00:41
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't... What did then?
By Jetackuu 2014-05-25 00:02:13
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't... What did then? corporate greed
but seriously, pure capitalism has been extinct way before the creation of the American colonies, not sure if it really ever truly existed. Maybe in black markets, but even then they still typically have rules.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:07:59
We've never been laissez-faire and thank merciful heaven for that. Someone needs to change the U.S. history text books then.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:09:00
I remember in high school we had a whole section on laissez-faire in North America.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:10:31
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't... What did then? corporate greed
but seriously, pure capitalism has been extinct way before the creation of the American colonies, not sure if it really ever truly existed. Maybe in black markets, but even then they still typically have rules. I don't think it was ever pure. There was always tariffs and whatnot.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-25 00:11:46
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't... What did then? corporate greed
but seriously, pure capitalism has been extinct way before the creation of the American colonies, not sure if it really ever truly existed. Maybe in black markets, but even then they still typically have rules. I don't think it was ever pure. There was always tariffs and whatnot. Well then don't state that pure capitalism is what made the American economy then.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-05-25 00:15:17
Someone needs to change the U.S. history text books then. I remember in high school we had a whole section on laissez-faire in North America. Your entire schtick on this site (and presumably in real life) is to treat every piece of conventional wisdom as a conspiracy against the truth, but you're willing to buy hook, line, and sinker into your high school history curriculum?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:15:54
I would love to see what would happened if all subsidies were ended, oil, farm, corporate, etc. The economy would implode if it was done quickly, it would go into recession or possibly depression if done at a moderate pace, and it wouldn't happen at all if attempted at a slow pace (give lobbyists 5 years and they can get any decision changed -- look at how ACA has been rewritten every 5 minutes since it got passed).
Pure, laissez-faire capitalism is pretty terrible, anyhow. Just like Marxism, it looks sensible enough on paper but it bursts into flame when exposed to reality. Pure capitalism is what made the American economy. Only problem is capitalism crumbles with expansion.
Not everyone can be rich, and a growth economy can't last forever. lol no it isn't... What did then? corporate greed
but seriously, pure capitalism has been extinct way before the creation of the American colonies, not sure if it really ever truly existed. Maybe in black markets, but even then they still typically have rules. I don't think it was ever pure. There was always tariffs and whatnot. Well then don't state that pure capitalism is what made the American economy then. Purer on the gold standard than it has been since then. Pure capitalism is an ideal you lean towards, but never reach.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-25 00:22:57
I wouldn't say it's one I'd like to lean towards, I'd like to steal a few pieces of the model and apply them elsewhere, but definitely not a fan of many aspects of it.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:24:58
I wouldn't say it's one I'd like to lean towards, I'd like to steal a few pieces of the model and apply them elsewhere, but definitely not a fan of many aspects of it. What aspects do you not like?
By Jetackuu 2014-05-25 00:29:02
I wouldn't say it's one I'd like to lean towards, I'd like to steal a few pieces of the model and apply them elsewhere, but definitely not a fan of many aspects of it. What aspects do you not like? We could go on for some time about it, and I may later. But for now I'm rather tired, and have a massive headache.
Let's just say that I like a bit more regulation, and it has many flaws, starting with that the workforce cannot properly negotiate when they're trying to survive and put up with more than they should to provide for themselves and their family. There's many other things as well, but that's just a start.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13651
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-05-25 00:34:51
Capitalism is just like communism, socialism, and a lot of other -isms in that the purest form of it would work if it weren't for people trying to take advantage of the system and cheat their way into prosperity. That's the problem with pure capitalism. I'm not a fan of government overreach, but it has to have at least some regulation to keep it under control because, when money is involved, people tend to be jerks.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:35:11
I wouldn't say it's one I'd like to lean towards, I'd like to steal a few pieces of the model and apply them elsewhere, but definitely not a fan of many aspects of it. What aspects do you not like? We could go on for some time about it, and I may later. But for now I'm rather tired, and have a massive headache.
Let's just say that I like a bit more regulation, and it has many flaws, starting with that the workforce cannot properly negotiate when they're trying to survive and put up with more than they should to provide for themselves and their family. There's many other things as well, but that's just a start. I like the fact it goes based on tangible units rather than denominations.
A pure standard would need some regulation in case of sudden expansion, since production is more or less natural than vs. artificial. But there could be instances where a flux of gold hits the market and suddenly an ounce one day won't buy as much as the next day to the point of crippling daily life in the short term.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-25 00:47:16
New on the corporate *** front: Apple is taking Samsung back to court, because they don't feel they won enough money in their patent infringement lawsuit.
Now hopefully we at least all can agree that the current implementation of copyrights/patents has gotten way out of hand and is stifling innovation/expansion (the original intent behind the laws in the first place, it's literally in the constitution).
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 00:48:58
New on the corporate *** front: Apple is taking Samsung back to court, because they don't feel they won enough money in their patent infringement lawsuit.
Now hopefully we at least all can agree that the current implementation of copyrights/patents has gotten way out of hand and is stifling innovation/expansion (the original intent behind the laws in the first place, it's literally in the constitution). That's was always been a problem.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-05-25 00:51:54
I wouldn't say it's one I'd like to lean towards, I'd like to steal a few pieces of the model and apply them elsewhere, but definitely not a fan of many aspects of it. What aspects do you not like?
The first practical thing I can think of that I dislike about Pure Capitalism is that labor is a downward bid. With no "Floor" (See: Minimum Wage") it becomes very Darwinian, and the standard of living drops considerably. With that, the idea of "Upward Mobility" ceases to exist in a realistic sense.
There's also a more philosophical problem in having a minimum wage be insufficient working full time (50HRS/WK); the crime of intellectual stagnation. Humans need time to think, but being occupied every waking moment with survival means there is no time to devote to creative processes.
Second, and intentionally on the opposite scale, is the fact that when a person or group reaches a critical mass of power and wealth, they have the ability to break the free market through monopolies. In this sense, pure capitalism is always destined to fail eventually. For an example of what happens in a Pure Libertarian world, play Armored Core (Series).
 Bahamut.Milamber
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3692
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-05-25 04:13:57
Once you block the person who contributes little but stupidity, controversy, and purposefully attempts to argue multiple sides of a discussion point (often unsucessfully), the forums become much nicer.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-25 06:03:11
Time to pony up Washington:
Quote: More than 318,000 federal workers and retirees owe just over $3.3 billion in back taxes, the Internal Revenue Service said Thursday.
That works out to nearly 3.3 percent of all 9.8 million federal workers and retirees who are behind on their taxes — significantly lower than the proportion of delinquent taxpayers in the overall population. The IRS estimates that to be at least 8.7 percent.
Those behind in their tax payments include 714 people working for the House and Senate. IRS officials said the data used to compile the report does not indicate whether any of those delinquent taxpayers were members of Congress.
Who like taxes? Not the people who pay them, is always the quick answer. However a new article from CNN had this to say:
Quote: The average American pays more in tax and social security than Canadians, Australians, the Japanese and the British.
But when you compare the American tax burden to other developed nations, the numbers don't look so bad.
New data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development compared tax rates and social security deductions on average incomes in 34 countries.
The data shows that Belgians, Germans and Danes have the highest tax burdens, while South Koreans, Mexicans and Chileans have the lowest. Americans are about in the middle.
Further investigation into the report released from the OECD had this to say:
Quote: Personal income tax has risen in 25 out of 34 OECD countries over the past three years, as countries reduce the value of tax-free allowances and tax credits and subject higher proportions of earnings to tax, according to new data in the annual Taxing Wages publication.
The increases in tax burdens on labour income in 2013 were largest in Portugal (due to higher statutory rates), the Slovak Republic (due to higher employer social security contributions) and the United States (due to expiry of previous reductions in employee social security contributions).
The average tax burden on employment incomes across the OECD increased by 0.2 of a percentage point in 2013, to 35.9 percent, according to the report. It increased in 21 out of 34 countries, fell in 12, and remained unchanged in one.
The 2013 rise follows a substantial increase in 2011 and a smaller one in 2012. Since 2010, the tax burden has increased in 21 OECD countries and fallen in 9, partially reversing the reductions seen between 2007 and 2010.
The new findings on income tax burdens are among the highlights of Taxing Wages 2014, which provides unique cross-country comparative data on income tax paid by employees as well as the associated social security contributions made by employees and employers; both are key factors when individuals consider their employment options and businesses make hiring decisions.
With the world so intertwined economically today not paying taxes simply isn't a solution. But to be fair America's working class has had it pretty good when compared to other countries in the OECD. The joy ride may soon be over.
Quote: While some might want to complain and even go as far as saying this will hurt the working class, across the board taxes on wages are not only on the rise, they will continue rise as well this year. Seemingly harmful, this will allow business to perhaps again be flexible to hire more labor as the income once again attempts to even disburse itself throughout the masses.
Cheer up, when everyone is taxed we all wind up winner in the end. It’s the fight against taxes that will ultimately harm you.
Is there a solution to the increase in wage taxes for the working class? Or is this the solution we've been waiting for? Can higher taxes on labor once again bring prosperity to America's middle class?
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