Job Balance?

I have played this game for a long time, the only time I ran into players like that were generally PS2 players or extreme derps.

Maybe you dead servers can't afford to be picky with DD's and have to settle for anyone.


Then maybe this too is an exclusive Asura thing because we have new players joining fairly frequently and they don't have a clue how the systems work, much less common etiquette, proper strategies, etc. Leading a group is way too much for these players and all they see is BLU BLU BLU when they're interested in some of the other iconic melee in the game.

Leviathan is/always has been a JP heavy server. Most of the NA players know each other, so generally have an idea on what kind of player they are. But, it really does seem like Asura has a very different experience with people than Leviathan, so that may be why our opinions on the matter differ so much.

There isn't knowing everyone on a 90% NA server with those numbers on nearly all the time.

There is basically half of that on Leviathan right now.

It's more like....the majority or our players don't suck. So we can play however we want.

Plus, Asura being the reddit linkshell's server, and having people bandwagon hard on multiple forums for people to come to Asura for the population. Of course Asura is going to have a lot of derps lol

Pretty sure It has to do with number of concurrent players. Let's not create illusions that servers have different % of crappy players that is just plain stupid and ignorant.

Actually, there are reasonable explanations of why certain servers would have differing skill levels and/or styles. I would tend to think that Asura would in fact have a lower percentage of higher-end people and a greater proportion of people that are heavily-influenced by a bandwagon mentality due to 1) being the Reddit server and 2) being the nexus for people interested in PUG groups.

You could also say that smaller servers will mostly be grouped more and more people will be educated because the educated ones are actually able to reach those people. IE it is a lot easier for 1 person to reach 10 people then it is for 10 people to reach 100.


All of these are just a result of a higher population server. In Restrospect, I can agree that the chances of smaller populations server having a lower % of idiots is possible. But the result is a product of it being a smaller server.

Those of us on smaller servers are aware of this, and it plays into why we chose to be on smaller servers.

Don't pick out only sections of my post, bring all of it out as all of that was already explained and now I'm going to repeat myself but go into more detail.

Don't be stupid, MNK is the weakest Job in the game at the moment and will not pull hate for that reason as it is in the worst spot when it comes to Job Balance.

DRK Will have 4k-9999HP after a Drain 3 and a 80% Dread Spikes on top of that making it impossible to one shot and with the mob killing itself while hitting the DRK, There isn't even a need to switch to a DT set.

DNC's Fan Dance gives it ridiculous mounts of DT and even though it drops down over time it will still keep you completely covered, In a fast fight the mob well.. will die fast if you pull hate immediately the mob will die before Fan Dance weakens and in a longer fight which are higher tier fights you likely won't need it until the last part of the fight which the mob will soon die.

I really don't see why I have to explain how Utsusemi is better than Cocoon and Occultation is extremely obvious but here goes. Utsusemi works like Occultation except it is better in every way, Utsusemi absorbs attacks and single target spells 100% of the time, Occultation does not. Utsusemi only gets completely wiped by a AOE magic spells while Occultation gets wiped by any type of AoE be it a Physical TP move or Magical, Conal TP move, AoE Magic spells and worst of all AoE Melee strikes which is everywhere in mid to high tier content and to top it all of those mobs do Defense down which overwrites Cocoon.

Yes High jump and Super Jump are fantastic, You have hate? Remove it. Done. Continue to bash it. Works pretty much everywhere.

I also never said WAR and SAM defensive tools were better so nice way to conveniently hide the first part of my post and in the case of dispels you are either fighting something that dies fast where dispels won't hinder you much or you are fighting something like Schah and Vinipata which in my opinion is much better done with a mage strat rather than melee.

This isn't to say Cocoon and Occultation suck, they are very good spells and defensive tools but have glaring holes in them that some other jobs defensive tools will perform better.

I also find this hilarious as you have watched our Melee clears in our stream and you also have an Aeonic which means you have experience in these fights. Please tell me when did any of our DD's pull hate against WoC to make any of our Defensive tools matter?

I was the only DD to pull hate on Teles and that's more likely due to the high emnity that RUN JA's produce not to mention I was winning the parse by a decent amount and almost did die which was due to me looking to see which buffs got dispelled and not paying attention to use proper defensive tools.

Albumen is the only time where Defensive tools matter since it has hate reset, BLU and NIN have shadows which would buy them time to turn around and switch to DT gear. DNC has Fan Dance which would laugh at its attacks and buy them time to turn around and switch to DT gear. DRG would simply shed hate and continue pounding away. THF would plant hate onto the Tank or another DD. DRK is probably the only job where it's tools go to crap because Albumen would resist Drain3/Dread Spikes so they would have to do the same thing WAR and SAM do which is to use Seigen 3rd EYE that gives them time to turn around and equip DT gear. MNK wouldn't be used period. RUN would simply use Battuta and continue to blow it up.

In low tier content with Low Geared/Returning players then the mechanics are the same with Highly geared players in high end content they likely will not pull hate off a tank to make defensive tools matter.




This doesn't even make sense, Low accuracy situations means you do not need high accuracy so all jobs are in play, how does BLU have an accuracy advantage here, How did you even get to this conclusion from that part you quoted. If PUG DD need accuracy then so does a PUG BLU which I already destroyed this argument in my last post that you conveniently left out so here it is again.


Let's add to the fact RUN DNC DRG have more accuracy than BLU provided they are evenly geared and have the same amount of Job points spent, My RUN equips Ainia Collar and Dedition earring for TP and still has higher accuracy than my BLU and can boost accuracy to insane levels with Swordplay. My DRK has more accuracy than my BLU and can also push it higher with Abs-ACC/DEX, it also gets accuracy from En-Dark if you invested the JP into it.

The accuracy advantage everyone claims BLU had never existed it was their HASTE advantage that allowed GEO and COR to boost their accuracy to high levels since they didn't need haste and if a BRD is in play which it was and still is today in mid tier content like Maju and Neaks then it is irrelevant as they can put a march on any DD that wouldn't be capping haste anyway, This has been fixed for over a month now and this is the third time I am explaining this.



While MG is a great spell and everyone benefits from it, it is not needed or even required to do any content today. This shows more how ignorant the majority of the player base is and the unwillingness of trying/learning different things rather than how strong MG is as BLU didn't get popular until months after its release. Most use it only for the haste and don't even know it gives DEF mDEF and Regen hell you'd be even surprised how many players do not even read update notes as all the PUG I join still go all out with accuracy buffs where I am capped without food at 1145 acc on Normal VD Ambuscade. You also never need both Vex and Attunment, Vex by itself is more than enough to get you through.

Blu is OP. Not by a single point but by multiple points but none of them are strong enough to guaranty a nerf. They have higher than average DD in accuracy due to trait and dual wielding. They also have better haste, def, atk, healing capabilities and strong WSes.

Most of them are marginal boost but the combination and capabilities of doing things other DD can't do are what make Blu OP.

Server size or player skills shouldn't have any relevance (or weak relevance at best) on whether the game needs to be rebalanced.

It's the average, run-of-the-mill, casual players who are getting most affected by the current imbalance.

"make your own party" isn't really relevant at all because if it were a solution then we wouldn't need any rebalancing since 2002. Every War/Whm back then would have had their own party and wouldn't be called Buttersheep.

Player skills shouldn't be relevant much because most people are average or below average. Just because the people you often hang around with seem to be doing alright to you, does not mean the rest of the population does. Most people only hang out with around 20-30 people on average - the rest of the population is relatively unknown to them but people assume that the rest of the world is the same as the people they hang out with.

This post is utter dog ***and shows how little you know about other jobs.

I don't know where you're 1300+ accuracy is coming from outside or inside escha which I will leave alone for now.

BLU isn't the only job that can equip Carmine +1, DRK, RUN, and DRG can as well and these pieces are only used in topped out maxed accuracy sets when fighting something where you needed to use your mid Accuracy sets and Accuracy buffs were wearing off which is coming to game over at that point and this is before the Meva update now it's useless.

Your Ranking is also wrong because you did not do any research so let me fix it for you.

Attack Bonus
DRK Doesn't need to be explained > WAR gets 70 Attack from Job gifts and Attack Bonus 3 plus Smite level 3 and I might add that Berserk for WAR main is 35% Attack bonus and not 25% like it is when subbed and WAR can pretty much Full time Berserk > BLU gets 50 Attack form gifts, does not equip any Attack Bonus traits but does get Attack bonus from subbing WAR but everyone gets that.

Store TP
SAM > BLU, this is correct

Extra Attacks
THF > WAR and RUN(It has Temper)> BLU. DNC can rival or even surpass BLU in this situation because Daggers generally get more Triple attack than what Swords get in Double attack.

Accuracy Bonus, This is completely wrong.
RNG doesn't need to be explained > DRG + DNC, both have Accuracy Bonus 3 and get 64 Accuracy from Job Gifts > RUN Has Accuracy bonus 3 and gets 54 Accuracy from Job Gifts > BLU gets 36 Accuracy form Gifts, I generally only use Accuracy bonus 3 but to compare with Accuracy bonus 4 it still does not beat the others in accuracy. You will never set Accuracy bonus 5+ the sacrifices you have to do to bring it to light are not worth it.

Skillchain bonus
DNC > SAM + BLU, both SAM and BLU have Skillchain Bonus 3 BLU has no room ever to equip more Skillchain traits.

Critical Attack Bonus, This is incredibly wrong
THF > DNC Has Crit Att. Bonus 3 + another 8% form gifts > WAR gets Crit Att. Bonus 2 + another 10% from gifts and also 10% Crit hit rate. > DRK gets Crit att. bonus 2 + another 8% from gifts > BLU Crit Att. Bonus 3 does not get any Crit Att. dmg from Gifts and only 1 spell gives Crit Att. bonus which is Sinker Drill so they cannot increase that trait. The difference between Crit Att. Bonus and 2 and 3 is 3% which WAR and DRK beats by 7% and 6%.

Before I go further I just want to point out that BLU does NOT get any special stats from Gifts such as DA, TA, Crit DMg, Crit rate and WSDMG nor do the 100 and 1200 Gifts increase DA and TA traits.

Defense Bonus
PLD > RUN > this more of the fact that BLU uses Cocoon rather than trait as BLU never sets Defense bonus ever and both tanks use /BLU.

Magic Evasion
RUN > Mages > Everything else gets 36 M.Eva Gifts yes light DD gear has more M.eva than heavy armor except for Souveran gear which PLD and WAR can use and is slightly higher. It is extremely rare for a BLU to set Blinding Fulgor for M.eva trait.

While on BLU I use a similar set to the Zahak Reborn I drop STP V for DW 4 since I have seen better results with it and with that said it has the same traits as DNC sans the STP and TA leaves 12 BLU points for utility which isn't going to be a lot and you can counter argue with DNC getting more Accuracy, Crit hit damage and more Skillchain damage from Gifts.

One of War's Best Weapons is AG Ukon which will make Light with CDC as does Torcleaver for DRK, Fudo for SAM, Aeonic RUN with Resolution or Dimidation how is that not playing well with BLU?

You can also change/build your PT setup to not have BLU with no loss.

Since you brought up harder fights, Cocoon will always be down because Defense down is everywhere, Occultation will be wiped always do to NM's spamming AoE. I believe MG is 20% DEF not 25% and you also have to account that everyone has that same buff and likely to to be using Berserk including the BLU which is -25% Def and possibly less on WAR main(Not too sure on that), let's not forget DNC has Fan Dance which is 90% and over time drops down to 20% which can be full timed and is better than Barrier Tusk. All that said it doesn't matter because in harder fights you will not pull hate from a Tank on BLU or any straight forward DD except for Albumen which I covered in a earlier post.

I am also likely someone you and everyone else here never heard of.

@Roundelk

Your entire argument is based on your experience, and how you do things.

A common melee setup is DDx2, COR, GEOx2, whm. Thus your argument about tank isn't legit because that's not how some people do things. If you do UNM or HTBC it's going to be tougher to hold hate than T4 as well.

This defense argument was brought up because blu has an advantage while capping haste. So why is "MNK never pull hate" a legit argument? So are you going to invite MNK over blu instead? It just doesn't make sense.

Regarding utsusemi: I already made it clear about it, but Ill go into detail again. So if you are fighting an NM that repeatedly wipes both shadows and blink. Blu will still have higher defense than NIN.

You conveniently brought up a situation, such as NM with dispel or defense down, in a pt with tanks capable of holding hate and whm capable of keeping ppl alive without both vex attunement to support your argument. So how is this legit in a job balance discussion?

Your scenario is so specific that doesn't even apply to majority of people shout for blu onry.

That being said, the argument shouldn't focus on cocoon and occult as I dont think it's the most op defensive buff ever, nor the real reason why pt slot is locked to blu. I only think the way you argue against it is not very objective thus I said something.

More importantly people need to remember high defense is the RESULT of capping haste. And that's unbalanced.

MG is defense + 25%, regen +30, haste +15.

March had less than that without ja if I remember correctly(feel feee to correct me if I get the number wrong), and it doesn't provide any additional buffs besides haste unless it's honor march.

Indi haste has more haste but it also doesn't provide additional benefits.

At least one of MG, march or indi haste must be used to cap haste. They are must have buffs for melee pt. In terms of additional benefits MG is below or equal to honor march but better than regular march and indi haste.

Brd is a support role and it took a support job slot. Geo is support job and it took a support job slot. Blu is DD and it doesn't take away any support pt slot to cap haste while still doing DPS.

How is this not a design issue?? Blu is essentially doing what people invite brd for in past 10 years, provides more than that by addressing one of melee weakness(defense), as a dps job.

If a BLU capping pt haste can't play offensively and takes support pt slot instead of DD pt slot then I wouldn't say it's design issue. But as it stands now it's clearly an issue in design. A lot of people just anti nerf because they think anything related to the word "nerf" is bad and it's the end of their world. But it's not.

Such an awesome ability, apparently forgotten at times.

BLU is not even a staple in a pt setup and it's not even close, GEO COR WHM are a staples as you will use those job for everything that you are doing no matter what tier content or skill level you are hell in BLM Death strats COR's ***on BLMs dmg with 60k+ Leadens and 99999 SC.

You want a nerf on BLU because the large ignorant player base are only seeking out this one job because their knowledge and skill at this game in 2016 is incredibly low.

Do you guys not see how asinine this is? You nerf BLU then what? People will jump to NIN then what? Nerf Utsusemi? Then what? People will likely use DNC's and RUN's, then what? They get Nerf. Do you not see this endless cycle that you guys will put yourself through until the game dies? and in that time you will see how those nerfs weren't even needed in the first place and made the game overall worse.

Less nerfing... more buffin...

Make MNK great again~!

Smite only affects 2hd and H2H weapons. Smite isn't doing anything for BLU.

You have to look at things by same job role.

Whm doesn't block healer jobs since it's the only job that's designed to be a full time healer, and hybrid healer job such as sch still get a pt spot for something else.

Geo blocks other support role such as brd cor rdm, which makes it op. That being said, I have never say geo isn't above other support job. So people need to stop playing the "but geo is op" card in this argument in an attempt to change focus of the discussion.

Also have to point out as it stands it's not possible to nerf geo to keep support job balance, as it will make the content too difficult. The solution to address geo issue isn't the same as solution to address blu issue.

Cor is only really, really needed if pt needs ja reset. If not then a cor that doesn't have good gear in pt is actually quite interchangeable with another dps. When is the last time you see people shout for 3 cor in pt for melee setup?

Not sure how leaden sc setup is relevant in this discussion as only trueflight can do what leaden does, and it's different element, thus it doesn't block each other in pt slot.

Will people flock to dnc or nin or run if blu gets nerfed? Maybe. However none of these jobs has design mechanics that encourages people to invite 2 of them to pt. Back when MNK, Sam, thf, bst was bandwagoned by PUG I have never say a thing about nerf nor adjustment, just because these jobs doesn't have design mechanics that punishes people inviting other dd job so it's pure dps competition. Buff used on sam, mnk and thf were the same and I believe whoever win parse under the same buff deserves a pt slot regardless of the job.

These days the competition is over before it begins. The one who build parties, has a very specific setup in mind, which is blu blu cor geo geo whm and 2 blu rotate mg. If you invite someone else you got punished by losing 1 bubble, and other dd have to fight harder for a spot before they can prove themselves with parse.

Also just to FYI about the numbers, MG is +25%. Just tested in game:

Before MG: defense 972
After MG: defense 1215

972 x 1.25= 1215, Exactly 25% boost. Can upload SS if you want proof.

Everyone gets MG buff just shows how good it is. Worst of all you need 2 BLU to keep it full time unless you JA reset, which isn't efficient to do in a lot of situations.

@ Afania,

At this point if blue gets nerfed, people including me will quit. I'm not flocking to other jobs. I already learn to play geo, blue Mage and scholar when bst got nerfed. Not gonna re gear a underwhelming job.

I don't care if buffing stuff needs more programming work but it's all about buffing other jobs

"nerfing" a job doesn't necessary make it underwhelming. I really don't understand this anti nerf mentality in FFXI community when other games receive balance adjustments all the time. Maybe I worded it wrong and I should say "adjust" a spell or JA instead?

Saying the BST job is underwhelming after distance adjustment is exaggerating.

Raise mnk ws dmg be comparable to One Punch Man's damage. Maybe not that op but something close to other dd would be nice.

You serious? So if your job gets adjusted slightly to be inline with others you will quit? What type of petty crap is that. Start caring more about everything and everyone in the game and not so much yourself.

No one is suggesting to break BLU and wipe them off the face of the planet. I even enjoy BLU.

Dude I do care about others, that's why I kept mentioning for a buff to other jobs.

Game is old,no need to get people angry by nerfing something when you can buff other jobs.

Bst even pre nerf damage wise is not on par with blue Mage. It's just safer being in the back now u need to be in harms way while doing less damage then a blue.

Do your research: Nature's Meditation.


DNC is going to be using roughly same weapons as BLU (Mythic + Empyrean) so, no. So it's going to be TA trait vs Saber Dance, which is basically a wash.


RUN won't get as much accuracy from weapons (no 269 swords, no dex+50 sword, no major +acc gsword) and DNC doesn't get carmine+1, so DNC is keeping up via gear with adhemar+1 only.



If RUN is utilizing /BLU they're not even contention for DD since they're not even delay capped, so pick your poison, either RUN is considered some type of competition or it has a defense advantage (and RUN/BLU cannot beat BLU in defense unless the BLU is giving it MG anyway)


You missed that BLU is on mage armor, which has higher meva than light armor, eh?


If you count the party losing +25% defense and 30hp/tick "no loss" I suppose.


Yeah, there's probably a reason for that.

They mean that BLU doesn't get specific Critical Damage gifts similar to that of THF and DNC.