Job Balance?

Even if thats the case, the not every move really lowers dps. Aoe def up(mg) often last a lot longer and you can cast them before engage. So does blink etc. A lot of people have issues with blu, is less about cure and status removal, it's more about MG, cocoon, shadows and CDC SC property.

A lot of people argued that "but dispel and aoe wipes them", but not every NM wipes shadows or dispel. So other jobs still don't get the options to have even playing ground when fighting NM that dispels.

I thought you said you were going to stop? You're literally going in circles at this point, we get your opinion by now.

Well if someone reply I still gonna say something isn't it >.>

i like war and i like blu, am pug scrub

I will just say there was a point where people were complaining about a lack of good UL spells and most of this discussion seems to be centered around MG and the role it plays in BLUs current position in the meta.

Doesn't really mean anything, but I think this is a reason why the spell exists and probably won't get nerfed unless JP start complaining.

edit: I said "a reason" not the reason, before anyone tries to get pedantic. I really haven't kept up with things and don't really care to dig thru info

Kinda irrelevant to the job balance discussion but isn't massive dmg from umbra and radiance every aeonic can do, not just drg?

I've done a few times on cor solo with trusts, perhaps every aeonic can do the same?

Afania, that is the stuff that matters, you are correct. Not sure every job can pull that off due to the ws mods of things like shijin, req, and entropy. I knew aeonic gun was a monster and wish I did that instead of sword. Oh well guess I need to farm another 30k beads for gun, that is impressive damage without a doubt.

I think it speaks more to the power of skillchains, and not necessarily a specific job or weapon. It's just a matter of using the right abilities and having some coordination.

Obligatory:

That is nearly x4 on a light sc? Not even radiance. Kinda makes me want to kick it into high gear on aeonics now.

That wasn't with an Aeonic, though.

It's proof of how multisteps are considerably stronger than spamming your favorite moves, even if you're making a one-step Light on every other WS.

I am intrigued to know what buffs/debuffs, how many steps in the sc there were and what level difficulty this was.




I agree with that 100%, I believe I stated that in the past as to why I prefer a single DD over multiple DD spamming highest dmg ws.

I agree with Jean that skillchains are very strong but to add some context, both the last stand and dimidiation screencaps are against Tari which are weak to light (I believe taking 50% more damage from it, but the wiki's don't list exact numbers). The stardiver screencap is against a sabotender, they are weak to ice and dark (again I believe 50% but there isn't a lot of numbers for this). Light is comprised of thunder, fire, light and wind, Darkness of dark, stone, water or ice. Multielement skillchains will do the damage type that will result in the most damage. So a mob weak to thunder, fire, light or wind will take extra damage from light skillchains and a mob weak dark, stone, water or ice to will take extra damage from dark skillchains. I do totally agree skillchains are very powerful, especially if paired with allies' roll and/or inundation or using radiance/umbral, but you will get far more use out of them on mobs with elemental weaknesses and matching either light or dark to it than ones without elemental weaknesses or not targeting that elemental weakness with your skillchain's elements.

One easy example is avatars. Leviathan will take great light skillchain damage (lightning is in light) while Ifrit will not, but Ifrit does take a lot from darkness skillchains (water is in dark).

Edit: umbra was used for DRG screenshot sorry.

Purely based on WS damage; Expiacion is stronger than CDC with Tizona, and Savage Blade with Sequence is the strongest BLU ws. But, generally CDC > CDC is king

I'm surprised that White damage doesn't come up a whole lot.

I have heard stories of AG Ukon Wars doing 5k damage regularly with just their AA's while under the AM effect.

For most jobs white damage is only 30-40% of their damage, less if you count skillchain damage too. Empy improve on that, but it still ends up being better to make sure you can WS in less attack rounds over optimizing crit dmg and crit chance in your tp set that I've seen especially including skillchain damage. Even RNG works that way, and it can get a huge boost to critical hit rate with camouflage and do over 8k ranged attack criticals on ODT procs and you could double that in some rounds with double shot up, though I do sometimes wonder about no enmity camo + decoy shot setups with ranger on empys just spamming huge critical autos as maybe a valid strat on some content.

Thinking on it, say Arma, 277 + 143 damage, say 7 more from fSTR

Ranged crits are 1.25, Dead Aim is 1.45, ODT is 3.0, PDIF multiplier caps at 3.25 and getting 20% cdmg from herc augs and 10% from dead aim ambu head and 1.08 from dead aim gifts:
1.25 * (1.45 + .1 + .2 + .08) * 3.25 * 3 * 427 = 9,751 damage ranged attack crits with arma on RNG if attack is capped. This doesn't include trueshot, so if at proper distance just traits + gifts is another 1.15 multiplier making 11,213 ODT proc criticals. You can do double attacks with double shot up. I've done 8k with Gastra which has lower base damage on an ODT crit proc so I know this isn't far off. Against something piercing weak, you could even throw another 1.25x multiplier in there for 14,017 criticals on ODT procs at proper range vs piercing weak targets.

Assuming 50% ODT rate from am3, rogue's roll + ramuhs favor for 50% crit rate, camo for 20% crit rate, begrudging ring and ambu crit rate cape for 15% more, and any native crit rate from agi capping or near capping the rest the 15% you need to cap your crit rate, it could be pretty sweet imo. Saying about 1.4 seconds per shot, with 50% of them doing 11.2k damage... you'd have over 4k dps right there. Sooo idk. Not many endgame empy ranger though but due to how ranged crits work it could be very good imo even if reaching half that.

Sure but if you want to go that route but

DNC: can use Fan Dance when they've got hate which is better than Cocoon and Occultation.

DRK: Can Drain HP to increase max HP and Dread Spikes is better than Cocoon and Occultation which can be set up before a fight.

NIN: Utsusemi destroys both Cocoon and Occultation.

DRG: Can remove hate which is better than Cocoon and Occultation as BLU would have to constantly cast it if hate is locked on BLU.

WAR: Has Seigan 3rdEYE which is ok but can equip DT set and use Retaliation to avoid DPS loss.

THF: Puts hate on other players no need to worry about mob attention.

SAM: Seigan 3rdEYE which is ok and not much else.

MNK: Will never get hate.

RUN: Has Battuta which would makes you near invincible to physical attacks, Vallation which drops magic dmg by alot, Has Valiance to cover itself and the rest of the party from magic dmg and can be rotated with One for All making magic damage for the group a none issue, Pflug to straight out resist the most damaging status ailments on itself, All this obliterates cocoon and Occultation and anything any job has to offer besides PLD.

Once you get to Mid Tier content and higher hate starts to pretty much be locked on your tank as you have seen in our videos.

If you want to look out for the low tier/returning players then you have to talk about a low tier/returning BLU who does not have AG anything and does not have 1200 JP let alone Job Master so they won't have the long lasting MG nor the high accuracy and not even have the versatility to equip heals/status removals nor the defensive spells that you claim is making them overpowered in the first place.

The Broken issue is not BLU capping Haste by itself but the fact that Mobs eva in mid to high tier content was so ridiculous there was no room for haste buffs unless you had a Honor March BRD, This is fixed now so it is a none issue.

BLU much like DNC are designed to be a Hybrid class that not only can deal damage but can also provide support such as Winds of Promy and White Wind spam and in doing so hurts their DPS that is the drawback. Hybrid jobs HAVE to deal a respectable amount of DMG or else their overall usefulness goes out the window. This is why people are saying the job balance between DD's is at an all time high. The only thing that needs a fix is MNK and make Job Abilities undispellable.

Afania seems to not remember that everyone benefits from MG, not just the BLU.

So you kept telling me to drop the topic while you are the one continuing this discussion.

The fact that "everyone benefits from MG" means BLU already got an advantage for invite over other jobs that can't MG, such as DRK WAR MNK SAM DRG whatever.

And worst of all you need 2 BLUs to keep MG up fulltime!


You are basically presenting arguments to support the fact that BLU gets unfair advantage over other melees.

I never said I was dropping out of the discussion, YOU said that yourself a few pages back. They all have unique traits/JA they can bring that others can't. It's always been like that. You don't need 2 BLU to keep MG up fulltime on all content. Most things don't last that long at all unless you're doing UNM or something silly where you can just use a trust or other buff.

This is basically what you're saying, without any context, math or reasons. Except "fan dance is better than cocoon/occultation, Utsusemi is better than cocoon/occultation, MNK is better than cocoon/occultation because they don't get hate, everything > coccon/occulatation"

This is just, opinions. You think jump/SATA/fan dance/utsusemi is better than cocoon/occultation because you probably been thinking of a situation that benefits other defensive JA, thus making cocoon/occultation sounds weak. Then you only proceed to argue that other defensive JA > cocoon/occultation because you are already biased.

For example, you claim utsusemi is better than cocoon/occultation. But if both NIN and BLU fights NM spamming aoe and wipes shadows/blink, then BLU will still have higher defense than NIN with cocoon on. Thus making "utsusemi > cocoon/occultation" argument kinda moot.

This applies to every single defensive JA that you mentioned, especially "MNK never get hate" one. I honestly don't know what to say about it.



So you agree that BLU excels at low acc situations. Then why wouldn't you agree that because pug DD often need acc due to the lack of gears, that's why they shout for BLUs?



I agree with this, that's why I'm against BLU dmg nerf. I do think BLU exclude other jobs way too much, mainly because of MG mechanics and to the lesser extend SC property. When ppl anti BLU nerf, they need to look at all of BLU's strength as a whole instead of picking one strength then proceed to argue against it.

pugs aren't going to use trusts on UNM 135 when they can't even win with 6.

I want to drop out of discussion, because I think both sides already got point across. But when I see anti-cocoon/occultation arguments like "MNK never get hate" I feel I have to....say something >.>

Then they can wait on the timers between fights or simply use entrust. You use two GEO for UNM 135 anyways due to vex/attune and the DD buff ones. You can alternate entrust and still bring another DD that isn't BLU. There are options and you are blowing the haste buff from BLU way out of proportion, it isn't even that important. Your issue is mainly from PUGs and that is a hive-mind player mentality that won't go away, it isn't 100% the jobs fault. Look at BST, prior to this everyone was on that bandwagon and its power has not changed.

Yes, MNK sucks, its in a bad position. The answer to raising its position is not nerfing BLU though, its with adjusting the damn job. It's the worst job in the game atm, no denying that, but it isn't fixed by nerfing.

Since this is a thing about job balance, plz gib whm a spell to remove amnesia and fix full cure. While you're at it, give whm more DD options, since the whm sets lack haste.

And, it isn't that MNK sucks. H2H damage sucks. PUP is also terrible as a DD(master)

If you are pug struggling with acc, it's more ideal to entrust precision instead of haste. Not to mention their equally geared WAR DRK SAM MNK probably has even less acc than their equally geared BLU.

Just personal opinion, I believe ppl no longer bandwagon BST because they discovered BLU as next pug friendly job. A mediocre geared BLU in pt still kills faster than mediocre geared BST from my experience.

Alternate entrust with BLU mighty guard. You can still entrust precision if you need THAT much acc, which shouldn't be. What you are suggesting isn't going to change anything. Even if they removed cocoon, occultation, haste buff from MG and the trait bonus, people would still use BLU because its what the bandwagon is using. If this was the case people would have bandwagoned BLU a long time ago because its always had more buffs over other DD and maintained good damage since Abyssea.

I remember when my BLU had no AF, and Homam was best. Then I let people leech off me while soloing in Mire.

Think I still have the screenshot of me rolling 998 on first Macha coat that dropped

BLU didn't have self cap nor acc advantage post Abyssea until BLUwagon happened. I vaguely remember 2h DD still had more acc advantage from 2012 to 2013. BLU only gains massive acc advantage post 1h adjustment and JT2.

BLU also couldn't self cap haste back then, that's the major difference.

Defense is just icing on the cake, but MG and cocoon stacking kinda push it even further. Also if I remember correctly(sorry, been a while so my memory is vague), defense stat weren't as relevant in Abyssea era, unlike these days.

Over all I found your argument of "BLU has always been the same" kinda false, considering a lot has changed.....acc gap between jobs , free GEO bubbles for more acc beause of MG, the fact that contents need acc, defense became more relevant etc.

Or maybe it's not that BLU has changed, instead it's FFXI pt dynamics that has changed so BLU in 2015/2016 gained more advantage than 2012.

Every job can self cap with trusts, what is your point? If in a party setup you can easily move around a buff without much loss to accommodate.

I just mapped out GEO buff assignment a few pages ago. In situations that you need vex/attunement if you move around a buff to accomplish same acc buffs you lose frailty, which is massive boost in dps.

oraen's solution is to drop vex/attunement which I don't agree with, considering this entire BLU job balance discussion is based on the fact that pug aim for less cure and support, not making supports to cure harder and -na more often to accommodate WAR DRK SAM MNK DRG needing a pt invite.

Anyways, I feel we are both just repeating the same point over and over. You guys just keep saying "just do this or do that" when pug_simply_not_gonna do everything you said when they can just shout for BLU onry and solve all the issues.