China To Ban Gil Selling

Chinese population: 1,330,044,544 (July 2008 est.)
China is 9,596,960 SQ KM
United States population: 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)
United States is 9,161,923 SQ KM

You do the math.

And the only reason that people within US are better off is because of the government.

I'm just saying that before you go QQ over some other country there are people a lot closer to home that need help too.

Edit: I realise you're not in US but the point is there. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_by_population_density if you want more figures.

$50 a month contributed to food for the poor through the Combined Federal Campaign (a yearly Army charity drive) admittedly i could do a lot better but *shrug* i'm a heartless selfish *** as well. i guess most people are. Also, as i said earlier, when i see a gilfarmer, i don't report him.

lol...none of you guys are from the U.S. and you are talking about U.S. Problems D=

Meh, that's $50 a month more than most people contribute (myself included)

yeah well, you have so many more problems than most countries :D

I'm not sure what posting the respective population densities of those two countries has to do with the price of rice in china. (terrible, terrible pun sadly intended. kill me plz.)

My original post simply stated that the "ban" the OP mentioned wont do anything, that i don't report rmt, and a link to the video that made me feel that way. I don't see how you go from there to berating me about not caring about people closer to home. (i do, incidentally)

your logic confuzzles me @.@

I'm generalising not berating, I have no idea what your stance or beliefs are when it comes to people of lesser standing. My comment isn't directed at you alone but about the general populous. However, if you're not reporting RMT because you care about their wellbeing then I don't agree, they will find an income or a lifestyle with or without the industry being there.

I posted the densities to emphasize the reason why your own countries are better off and why they may have less problems. The Chinese government would pretty much not care if these people don't have a job or have any place to live because if they die another 50 people are going to replace them.

And I know this is the complete extreme of what you are saying so please take this as a joke but if you're not reporting RMT because of their living conditions then why don't you just buy gil to keep them in the job.

Sure. The difference in population is, among a host of other factors, one of the reasons for the gap in the standard of living between the U.S. and china.

But then your very next sentence is:

You're shooting your own argument in the knee. If, as you say, the population density and lack of government intervention in China causes the plight of the poor in China to be much, much worse than the plight of the poor in the U.S., isn't it logical to be more concerned about the people who are worse off?

There's certainly nothing in the generosity rule book that says the people you look out for have to be your neighbours. There are a million and one charities out there, and you could debate for ever about which one does the most good. If you feel strongly enough about a certain situation, then do something to help. Whether you donate your time, money, clothes, food, whatever, you're still doing something to make the world a better place right? I'm sure there are even people out there that think the world would be better without charity at all, or let's just go out and kill everyone without a job and spend tax money on something "more important".

When it all comes down to it, you're only one person and you can only do so much, so do what YOU think is right. If anyone judges you (not that that's what Karu is doing), tell them to *** off.

I doubt there's a single person on the planet that couldn't do more for people less privileged than themselves.

Wtf were we talking about again?

I wouldn't say I shot myself, I agree with what you're trying to say. It's such a catch 22.

My culture is very different to the Chinese culture and to support someone in my culture that person needs a lot more than the support I would give to someone in the Chinese culture. So do I support the person that will get more from what I give or the person that needs more people to give support? I somehow feel that the Chinese need your support less because their life expectations are less compared to someone that would need your support in a country like US. I'm not at all saying they deserve less support, I'm simply saying that our world is a depressing place and if you spend all your time worrying about it you'll never get out of bed until they come and take your bed away because you forgot to pay your rent and you end up being one of those people you were worried about.

This thread is getting really depressing. :(

I think this is the point in the thread when a forum regular is supposed to come in and finish off the derail by posting lolcats.

I think you guys are actually arguing the same thing, just disagreeing on your generalizations. =p

There are poor people everywhere, and the fact that it's a desperate Chinese peasant working for $0.18/hour, rather than homeless American, doesn't make a tremendous amount of difference. I don't think anyone is arguing that RMT is a good thing because it happens to employ some people. My point was more that these things are more complex and morally nuanced than most people seem to think. You can (like myself) still be completely against RMT as an institution, but willing to acknowledge the bigger picture.

As for why these companies (most of which are actually American, remember) have all their workers in China: remember that it is illegal to employ any American for less than the (in my state anyway) current minimum wage of $8.00/hour, which is roughly 44.4 times as expensive. Employing workers in countries with no minimum wage is the only way to make gil cheap enough to convince Westerners to buy it. (And buy it they do! To the tune of over $350 million in revenue in 2008.)

And not to make a particular value judgement either way, but something has always amused me:

On one side, you have a small group of young people so surrounded by abundance and easy wealth that they can afford to spend dozens of hours per week sitting around fretting about the perceived value of imaginary goods. On the other, you have legions of poor rural Chinese with no access to jobs or education just grateful for the chance to earn $0.18/hour locked in a dingy box for 12 hours a day, that they share with four other people.

You can see why, even though I despise the commercial institution of RMT itself, I'm slightly less inclined to jump on the hate bandwagon.

^this

I swear to God, everytime Jaerik posts I hear Gabriel Iglesias say "Shaddap, stupids!" and then vision the people who put no thought into their posts except "THEY MESS UP MY VIRTUAL FUNOMG" bow their head in shame. RMT are a headache sometimes, yes. But they're human and it's a job that pays better than what else they're probably offered.


I refer your attention to 0:10 seconds into the video.

Same as Jaerik, I despise the commercial institution of RMT itself but not the people doing the hard job in game.

I did befriend many of them through years and had some good conversations with some of them who could understand English. Once a RMT explain you his situation and how "lucky" he is to have that job you get to understand that hating them is kind of stupid and to some extent a very selfish behavior.

It makes the game harder in some situation but overall it's just fine with me. Lucky me I been born in America and I have the chance to have money and be able to play FFXI as a way to relax. Those people with way less "start" luck than me have the chance to survive by making money working in the same game and believe me it's a very good job compares to a lot of jobs there breaking your back and bones by the age of 20.

I'm not saying people should give them some of their own gils to help them eat, but hating them without even thinking about the bigger picture is kind of showing a very closed mind.

Funny thing is, this conversation makes me want to buy gil a lot more than needing any particular piece of gear ever did. :p I still never have and never will, but you know what I mean.

This conversation made me have Nando's for lunch.

I honestly don't care about RMT these days because it doesn't effect me on Odin since they can't get on. I don't want RMT in my game and I pretty much don't have RMT in my game.

And the people behind RMT, whatever, a man's gotta make a living. But that's just my opinion.

Don't agree with your stereotype. When it comes to something as contentious as this I think people have every right to comment along those lines. The fact that the don't post with everything Jaerik does doesn't mean they don't have a similar opinion.

I was gonna say something else but got distracted by boobs.

Yeah, except you missed the point in it's entirety. Well thought out and executed points of view are what make a side of an arguement valid. Someone saying "RMT RUIN MY GAME *** THEM LET THEM STARVE" instead of going in depth into exactly what it is that they find wrong with it? It doesn't come across as smart, literate and tbh is more than likely to get skimmed over rather than provoke a logical thought from another person. When you include statistical numbers, YOUR point of view and at the same time SHOWING you understand the point of views of others? *That* makes a proper thought in a discussion with many sides to it.

Someone's opinion
Isn't right unless they post
Numbers/statistics?

My mates typing sucks
But his opinion is good
I rate it quite high.

The chinese RMT that I talked to said she worked 12 hours a day, she had 2 days off a month. That means she worked 348 hours a month (on a month with 31 days) and she told me she got paid the equivalent of $100USD a month, meaning she earns about 29 cents an hour. She said it was considered a higher paying job and was a good job because she didn't have to do labours work. She said before that she worked in a lamp factory making 80$ a month. She said our minimum wage over there would be considered upper class.

BROGAME.COM is biggest offender ever in ffxi they create like 6-12 chars a day(using free trial) and spam u directly in game now where have you been under a rock?

Those are just advertising spam bot, what Axle meant is that we tend to see less RMT in FF XI involved into farming activities, HNM camping etc...

yeah, ever since STFU has been busy, RMT activities have dropped dramatically.

Ever trying trading to the mass of lvl 1s by the AH or RSE gear selling NPC?

I like how you summed it all up in a haiku. Do this more often please.

Not as easy as it sounds but I shall attempt to do more haiku.

Update on this topic:
http://ict4dblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/china-bans-gold-farming-er-but-in-fact-it-hasnt/

Basically says, "Oh, nah"