The Role Of Rune Fencer

Not a good comparison at all. A WHM meleeing will fail hard on anything remotely dangerous. A DD who invests in -DT sets will out tank any PLD (or RUN) that exists while also dealing higher damage. It's just the mechanics server side and there is absolutely nothing that the player can do about that.

Magic pixie dust and unicorn farts do not a tank make.

so rune fencer is a DD/tank hybrid with lots of utility to be able to tank (specifically against magic dealing monsters) but doesn't necessarily have to play the role of "the tank" in the party/alliance scheme of things?

That'll work, though the term "tank" is a bit loose.

Ex: I've "tanked" lots of sh!t on the following jobs, most of it dangerous.

BLU
WAR
DRK
SAM
RDM
PLD

And I assume that I'll be adding RUN to that list.

Would you call all those "tanks" even though each and every one and the capabilities to both generate enmity, provide damage and utilize some form of damage reduction to stay alive?

Ffs stop saying the same thing over and over, you sound like a broken record.

Ive really enjoyed playing RUN this past week still need to make a few sets for it mainly a proper eva hybrid set, since I havent been evading much of the SoA mobs

Tbh I'm having trouble even as thf evading Adoulin mobs <.<'

Yeah they must have boosted the acc for SoA mobs but with my sch mule keeping my hp up hasnt been a problem. Should be fun seeing what the Naarkuals are like if normal mobs hardly miss.

I would call any class/job a tank if they gear for it and can do the job to hold enmity/threat/hate(whatever term you want to use). Clearly some classes/jobs have the utility/tools to do the job better . however~ if you check some other mmo's
for example in rift. Clerics which were originally suppose to be a "healer" type class can now tank, dps, and heal. but that just depends on how they spec/build for it.
from the wiki:So imo~ in a party, if a person is doing this constantly to fit the role of a "tank" then they are tanking. Which makes them the tank.

Now if you want to define the class by either if its a
Tank,DPS,Healer/support w/e~ Then it should be defined as whats only native to the class.

I find that defining thing by roles works infinitely better then defining things by class. Different class's / jobs can be made to do different things which is what makes the labels we put on them rather stupid.

Something I've been saying for years now,


It just happens that in FFXI #1 and #2 are the same and now with the amount of refresh and -DT gear available anyone can do #3.

Honestly I'm pushing this because I don't want a DRG scenario happening again. For those who might not know, back in 2003 DRG was one of the top DD jobs in the game due to every hit in a WS getting full TP return. SE nerfed that and it resulted in DRG being labeled a sh!t DD for years even though it could deal the same as everyone else (prior to Hasso / 2H buff). Everyone labeling RUN a "tank" will only have the effect of it being left out of everything as any competent DD can "tank". Heck look what happened to PLD the moment support crew were able to keep DDs alive, it instantly became relegated to holding monsters in a corner by itself. RUN won't even have that to fall back on.

just throwing random bits of LoL speak in it~ but lets say this

If a paladin is a tank
and a ranger is a glass cannon adc
then a rune fencer is the bruiser dps. It both tanks and dps. Not the best in either category but it does decently well.

I'd say its both cuz its traits/abilities/spells make it highly magic defensive tank but considering that its main weapon is a GS, uses medium-type-ish armor makes it a DD.

So imo~ the RUN should have a tanking set and a DD set~ and just swaps in whatever for the moment or what the party needs. the job will probably be more defined when its merit abilities and relic-class weapon is introduced

I belive most will play run as DD not a tank. Just as Sam years ago was ment to be a simalur job with access to heavy armor being Def and Att +. Sam AF was tanking gear, on top of that with sams parry & Third eye and seing shields that fit sam but no katana is what prevented it from being that style of play. I belive run will be the same as people wont really play it as a real tank job. Since tank jobs consist of Enmity from /ja or From dmg out put i belive pld or say other jobs as drk war mnk sam will take hate from run easly leaving it to just be a DD with good MD to be a fall back tank. Or say a duo trio with Run being the main DD/Tank and having Support such as brd or geo. i havnt played it yet but thatss my assumption. I dot belive any job could really replace pld as real a tank, it all depends on the situation and support you have to choose what is your efficiant tank. Nin Pld or Run

Omg. More of the same. From me playing Run, it is a tank. An unfinished tank but yes a tank. I'm noticing that I don't have to damage a mob as much as a DD but I can still grab hate. We are all still trying to figure out how best to do this. At this point Saevel just comes across as a RUN troll. Every thread I check to get some info on the job I see him on it with rants about it not being a tank or that other jobs can DD better. Dude, can we please get info on the job RUN and not hear about what all the other jobs of FFXI can and can't do?

Funny thing is the same thing is going on in the RUN findings thread which is making me /facepalm all day...

He is doing it in all the RUN threads I've visited. ALL of the recent posted ones.

One thing im reading tho from others is "i tank on war sam drk" blah blah. A tank is a job that can "keep" hate and hold Multiple mobs "super tank" A NM that can 1shot any job as a "tank" would survive it. Or a tank is a job that can keep hate from the high DD clas such as drk war mnk etc allowing those jobs to play as there ment to be played w/o worrying about there defensive roll. Also a tank has to be MP efficient for your healer to perform w/o burning out his pool.
Just cuz you tank mobs on drk or war dont make you a tank, it means your fighting weaker mobs that are not that dangerous. Put those jobs on a real threat where you could be killed easly. You would rely on DT Sets and wouldnt be using any of your att /ja leaving you with low enmity and still low defense even at your best buffed Defense DT set. I think people are geting the word tank confused with its actual meaning since absyea altered there vision of the game and its classes. Just cuz you pull hate dont make you a tank!! Nin pld and now run will be tanks.

Maybe that's true now, but what some of the jobs you just listed most certainly did things that would define them as a tank, in every sense of the word.

I think RUN is still budding. I'm not one to discount a job less than a week into it's infancy.
I remember when ninja was still acceptable as a tank (lel) 95% of the population would let the whm spam heal them between recasts of shadows while the mob played pong between party members. They were determined that Provoke was the manner with which they were going to keep hate.

Later, as the community learned to communicate, and not be *** stupid, some of us learned/were taught the manner of keeping solid hate on nin. Keeping dps up while not losing enmity to physical damage was important. I learned that not getting hit between shadows wasn't just about the whm saving mp: it also kept your hate up, and the healers down.

I'm not saying "let's go back to the days chiblasting kirin was a good idea" or "RUN is going to replace PLD". I just think that RUN will have niche uses, or be "acceptable" for some low man things or just as a "i'm sick of playing x job today replacement". People saw GS on it and assumed it was going to be drk or war and that's obviously not the case or the intent.

I'd like to play with run/nin to *** around, and ill save drk for when I need to DD.

all that requires a job to tank is keeping the mobs attention and being sustainable. in many context, whm is a viable tank and has some of the most potent emnity tools in the game despite having traits that reduce emnity generation.

point being, who cares what people consider a taking class, if you can tank with it, then tank with it. the playerbase will either find a place for run in optional strategies or it will be the next loljob.

Yagrush WHM used to be a hate-machine for awhile!

Where in absyea? Or low LV non threat NMs outside? Like i said just cuz you tanked things on a job doesnt make it a tank. There is a large difference between being able to tank and being a tank. Can you tank things sure is it efficient to your job and support? No. Thats like sayin dnc is a tank. Can it? Hell ya but its going to be spending TP on cures rather than Dmg.
Can anyone justify what rune is exactly yet? No as there is no AF or Merrits to reflect on. Till then people are goin to play it as they want or think it should be played.

From peole say then il make a list and If its true then there is alot of tanks. here is the tank list you all can choose what is a real tank and wut is not.

Blu
Nin
Rdm/nin
Drg/whm
Pup/whm
Thf/nin
War/nin
Mnk
Sam
Drk/sam (apoc)
Bst
Dnc
Pld
Whm/nin
Smn
Run
Blm

These are all jobs people can solo/duo on. Does this make any of them a tank? You tell me! But like i said, just cuz u can tank somthing on one if these jobs does not qualify you to be a tank. It just means your fighting a lesser threat enemy.

Bullsh!t, all of it.

Have you played this game in the last four ~ five years? PLD's have long since stopped "tanking" as every other melee now has access to sufficient gear to survive.

Recently I finished a build that included the following,
47% PDT
50% MDT
25% Gear Haste (26% listed)
6-hit

I can full time Berserk and Hasso without worrying about dieing due to the above build. DRK's do the exact same thing with Apoc and end up "tanking" a sh!t ton of stuff.

What I've been saying, and people are plugging their ears, is that any DD in the game can now "tank". The <still> broken enmity system combined with a plethora of Haste and DT gear has made this easily possible. Go into any DD subforum and you'll see PDT/MDT and Hybrid DT sets listed as recommended. Anyhow this relates to RUN because having these sets is vital for RUN and being on light armor makes it a bit difficult. RUN will "tank" the exact same way every other "tank" does it, by smacking the monster over and over again to build CE/VE. It's the only real hate tool you have.

Now quick someone attempt to argue flash / JA so I can do easy napkin math using a weak DD's damage output to crush the idea.

I tank on drk/war all the time then I normally face plant or have the best support cast eva. True Story sometimes I wished I made a apoc when I get overzealous lol..

Except that on anything worth while(outside of Abyssea, of course), the whm isn't going to last as long as a "real" tank, even with a PDT/MDT set. You COULD argue that, at that point, the whm is a tank, which is true, but on mostly anything that is new and relevant WHM isn't going to make a very good tank.

I do agree with you on your last point. I'm just hoping that SE engineers events where all jobs are useful, which would offer different strats for different job combinations (you know, not just "lolzerg all of the things"). Making events which allow you to jump straight into the NM fight but only allow a max of 6 people would be an easy way to do this. Basically, VW with no temps, better drop rate, and 6 person max. Makes it challenging and rewarding, as long as they drop good stuff.

It's the most fun you can have with your pants on!

Oh im sorry i dont count VW or absyea. Apperently you do. Why dont u step out from you atmas and come perform on some real mobs see how u do. Im refering to real mobs not scrub NMs in abysea or Atma buffed VW. Define a tank! Sometiing that can tank anything?
Or just can tank what you feel you can handle?
For instance toss one of those jobs on Odin V2, Arch Omega/Ultima see how well u main tank and you let me no.
till then.. Wel see when Seekers releases real Nms and all u "tanks" get you sh!t pushed in.

Why the f8ck said anything about Abyssea or Voidwatch <.<

I've done that in all current events to and including Salvage II boss's. Legion you don't "tank" as much as survive and PDT sets are mandatory. Other then that there's .. meebles, a few of the boss's can be d1cks. Arch-Ultima / Omega, did those. Omega tends to have high evasion due to his constant flash spam, eat pizza or sushi. Ultimate has a really cheesy 1-hit KO move that you gotta run out of range of.

I would of expected by now someone would of posted ~something~ that we've done since 80 that required a traditional "tank". It's almost as through your arguing for a FFXI that doesn't exist.