IiPunch - Monk Guide

As a followup on the skillchain bit -- Turns out that skillchain damage is going to be a lot more significant that earlier speculated.

The formula for skillchain damage appears to be:

(((WeaponSkillDamage * SkillchainFactor) * SkillchainBonus) + MagicDamage) * WeaknessFactor

Flooring after each stage.

SkillchainFactor is the usual 50%/60%/100% based on weaponskill tier (or higher, with multi-step skillchains).

WeaknessFactor -appears- to be related to whether a mob is strong or weak to the skillchain element. From what I've seen so far, you get +50% vs a mob weak to the element, +30% for a mob neutral to the element, and +35% if the mob is weak to the element but higher than your iLvl (that's just a guess). Other values, such as being strong to the element, are unknown.

What does that mean? Well, for a mnk with tier 2 Skillchain Bonus, a closing Light skillchain with Smite will do 168% of the closing weaponskill's damage if the mob is weak to one of the light elements, or 145.6% if it's neutral to those elements. The above TP shift comparison I did assumed only 112%.


Vs Neutral mob:

Skillchain bonus: 12%, 30% mob factor

Smite + Light = 1000 + 1456 = 2456

To match that with Raging/Howling:
Raging + Fusion = 1311 + 1144 = 2455
Raging + Impaction = 1422 + 1034 = 2456

So need +31% to +42% weaponskill damage.

Raging Fists: 2000-2250 TP at capped attack, 2250-2500 at 1.75, 2700-3000 at 1.0.
Howling Fist: 2700-3000 TP at capped attack, 2300-2500 at 1.75, 2350-2600 at 1.0.

Vs Weak mob:

Skillchain bonus: 12%, 50% mob factor

Smite + Light = 1000 + 1680 = 2680

To match that with Raging/Howling:
Raging + Fusion = 1335 + 1345 = 2680
Raging + Impaction = 1457 + 1222 = 2679

So need +33% to +46% weaponskill damage.

Raging Fists: 2050-2250 TP at capped attack, 2300-2600 at 1.75, 2800-3000++ at 1.0.
Howling Fist: 2800-3000++ TP at capped attack, 2300-2600 at 1.75, 2400-2700 at 1.0.


Obviously this assumes you can skillchain, and are doing so. With the higher fTP scaling rates (so you're not as penalized for holding TP), the removal of skillchain damage resistance, and the higher skillchain damages possible, it's likely that using skillchains intelligently will be a very attractive damage option.

This also re-introduces situations where Shijin Spiral might be desirable. A mnk + drk using Smite and Resolution can't skillchain. Shijin > Resolution for Light, however, can gain you massive additional damage. (Of course there's the alternative Howling > Resolution for Distortion, or Asuran > Resolution for Fragmentation, but the Light chain is better if you can swing it.)


EDIT: Fixed some details separating Raging Fists from Howling Fist.

Skillchain value

For a Victory Smite build (that I'm not bothering to tweak for this), I have the following bits of data:


The main point is to compare melee with overall DPS. If you never weaponskill, you'll be at the melee DPS level, and if you weaponskill at 100 TP you'll be at the overall DPS level.

Why is that important? It means we can quantify the value of time relative to not weaponskilling. That is, for every 1 second we hold TP beyond the optimal point, we lose (overall - melee) damage.


Then we can look at potential skillchain damage on Smite (assuming Light): 7064 for neutral mobs, 8151 for weak mobs.

And finally, we can then ask, "How long can we hold out waiting for a skillchain before our DPS starts to go down?" That is, you can spam weaponskills solo, or you can wait to create a skillchain; how long is it viable to wait in order for it to be a net gain in damage?


For Fragmentation, time is 60% of the above (22-26 in low haste, 15-17 in high haste).

Interesting to note that those times are longer than another full weaponskill cycle (26 and 15 seconds) if doing a Light chain. That is, if you would have weaponskilled solo at 100 TP, you can wait up til about 250 TP to skillchain and still break even on overall damage (not counting the increased damage the weaponskill does at higher TPs), or 200 TP for level 2 skillchains.

Given the amount of flexibility in time for anything up to ~200 TP, for anything where there's only 2-3 DDs (ie: not trying to coordinate 6 different people weaponskilling) there doesn't seem to be any reason to -not- skillchain at this point.


Interested in people's thoughts on this. Does the above seem valid? Can you see it working out in events you normally do?

Honestly feels like it depends on party composition. I know that when I go SAM, I end up intercepting a majority of the skillchains and end up with almost all of the SC damage coming from my Fudos.

TOnight for example, did some Yorcia runs with me on SAM and someone else on MNK. I ended up pulling out 230-260k in SC damage through a whole zone while the MNK managed 60-80k at best. That's still a substantial amount of added damage though.

Skillchain damage is always a ridiclous part on parses even with 2 mnks spamming VS.

Ridiculous good or ridiculous bad?

Based on the above calculations, two mnks perfectly in sync, always doing Smite>Smite>Light on a neutral target, should have an overall damage distribution of 39% mnk1 / 39% mnk2 / 22% Light.

Personally I've been playing with a mythic SAM on my mythic BLM. The SAM makes frag, light, light, light and I just spam wind spells (Macc is not an issue on Very difficult since I'm magic bursting). I think if other jobs were to embrace this line of play, it could open up a different/new job role for groups.

I think a lot of this update has changed how groups can functionally play in that it's possible to set up different skill chains with your buddies if you want before an event starts, or you can keep doing what you're doing and not lose on the parse along with incidental damage from MB is nice too.

Just a quick note on Dragon Kick/Tornado Kick, from the graphs before -- Those were quick and dirty comparisons, and when I actually run them through the full spreadsheet, they don't come anywhere near the other top weaponskills, even with Footwork active.

So, just ignore them again.

Maybe 5% of total damage (so 10% of each monk), you don't SC that often even though you should. There is still a short period during which you can SC so it doesn't always match. Also WS is not the better part of you damage, then many situations require holding TP etc.

Have you even played recently? SC Damage is a lot higher now.

It's a little harder when you have diff jobs but if all monks it's super easy bc you are all gaining tp the same. Also with the tp bonus increases holding tp doesn't effect damage as negatively as as it previously did. But Sam and MNK pretty good still. Deff worth doing. In yorcia I sc light over and over and it destroys especially since wind damage can magic burst off it too.

Which reminds me, the above calculations were done before I adjusted the spreadsheets with the new TP formulas.

With the new TP gain rates, melee/ws split is now more like 54/46 instead of 59/41. That means the mnk/mnk/skillchain split would be 37.5/37.5/25.

That's fantastic, when I get an ideal group setup again I will do some parsing for people. Also a random add on is with so many skillchains debuffs have actually been landing better with magic bursts lol I actually watch for it on bard even.

No. Yo can probably calculate the probability of two monks with same gear skillchaining together and you'd be upset. Both monk ave independent chances of miss/DA/QA/TA etc so for a given TP phase, the odds to get 100 tp at the same time +/- a couple of seconds shold be quite low, especially considering that they'll never start form "post WS TPs" exactly at the same time. I might try a simulation for the fun becase it seems fairly complicated.

Good thing when you are making a SC someone has to go first, then wait a little bit then another person using a corresponding weapon skill has to go. :D

/sigh... First wrong thing is you aren't looking to get exactly 100 tp and you have a bigger window than you might think I've fit two attacks rounds into a skillchain window with high buffs before. Second wrong thing is that of course xhits are random but they are equally random, that's the whole point. Lastly you will
Be starting with that, if you wait one time to skillchain you are in sync for a little while. If I go over 170ish tp waiting on the skillchain I just changed to raging fists and still
Do a ***ton of damage and keep rolling.

Equally random means you tp at the same time noobs, also please waste 50% tp until you sync. You are not serious.

I totally forgot to keep a copy of the parse from last night, but we did shark whm sch brd cor sam mnk / leech spot, and my monk with his sam pulled combined like 60k skill chain damage on shark. Could have been higher but with two hundred fists kinda messed with timing. It didn't effect our dps hardly at all, Once I held a bit of tp to get us started we stayed on track most the fight, the big difference after update is holding tp actually helps your damage output per WS so overall its very little of a loss. And in some cases, like yorcia T2 and mega boss, I did a couple 10k-20k lights. That is worth holding off for a second to get timing down.

So a solo Koga sam self scing is better dmg than 2 mnk that is good to know now^^

It's probably somewhere between pup and cor

I agree. Square Enix really needs to buff up SAM a lot more to be able to keep up with other DD. Right now it's too far behind. :(

Yes please PCHAN post more DPS simulation on official forum saying that mnk > all and that sam is bad we need more buff

anyone have an updated impetus tp set

By my understanding tantra cylcas +2 fall behind other setups now unless having glanz, and in all my testing seems true. As for tping options, would need to know what you are fighting against?

yea for glanz. just for delve i guess, saw some sets on first page but all with nq otronif and no relic +1 pieces etc so figured they werent up to date

They arn't a lot of it is not, like I said I wouldn't bother using an impetus up set. I would focus on a Acc/hybrid set and tp set and leave it at that, maybe a mid-acc set too.

edit:
ItemSet 180754

ItemSet 319558

ItemSet 322392

that last set I would rarely ever see used, bc most the time if you are using acc you need the hybrid. ex: T4 yorca, ouryu, etc.

I'm fine with integrating PDT into your TP set using options that have PDT on them, like Otronif/Qaaxo/Lithelimb, but saying you need to use a hybrid set for basically anything in the game at this point is really just wrong. Also Hesychast+1 legs without Anchorite+1 feet, probably not worth.

Superior to pretty much everything as an ACC option for pure dps.

They slightly edge out Otronif pants too last time I spreadsheeted it.

There's nothing wrong with having a hybrid set. you should have basically every peice of gear he has in his anyways.

I highly doubt that Hesy+1 pants are superior to switching that slot to Manibozho and dropping acc in a better slot. Without Anchorite+1, Hesy+1 legs lose a ton of value.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't have the gear, most of that gear is good in a PDT set which is something I fully endorse everyone should have, but the instances in which you want to actually use a hybrid set instead of switching between a normal TP set and a PDT set are so uncommon right now. You should definitely be using your high acc set more than your hybrid set that is for sure.

Is boost worth using if your only source of haste is gear (aka soloing in non trusts zones)?

Would like to know this too. Often i see people using boost as a sata for ws, wondering if boost is really worth to stack in ws.