For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

I'll relinquish my stance on this argument because the better tp hat is gonna come down to whether or not you need the extra accuracy. Skulker's +1 has 18 more accuracy on it than a path B adhemar bonnet, but at the expense of 25 attack and 5% crit damage. If that accuracy is superfluous anyway then adhemar is better. I can't argue Oraen's point. Both hats are fantastic. I went damage path on my adhemar for rudra's, so I opted for skulkers to build tp. Maybe I should reconsider that stance.

Then again if we're allowed to have a second toutatis's cape next month I'll DEFINATELY reconsider that stance. Building a 10% crit rate, 20 dex, 20 acc/atk toutatis's and stacking adhemar bonnet sounds really juicy. I also can't argue the quad attack versus TA on the tam. I believe you're right with that one. The difference is only a very miniscule difference in accuracy, which I don't see being better than the stacking cape bonus.

The set in question is explicitly a low accuracy set. Note the name of the set, the words "capped accuracy", and the use of Dudgeon Dedition Earring and Ainia Collar. Path A would win anyway though - same TA, more attack, more acc, critdmg+, critrate from set bonus with the HQ body. NQ bonnet is a bit closer since you lose some TA, but that's not relevant to this particular discussion.

As for Rudra's, your assertion that path A is clearly superior to path B is questionable. For accuracy of course, but A and B have equal quantities of DEX. Path B can be no worse than equal to path A for unstacked or SA Rudra's in hitrate capped situations. For TA, remember that the base damage bonus from AGI is added after fTP and is thus only a small part of Rudra's total damage. If either the STR or the attack from path B are relevant, that is more than sufficient to overtake 12 AGI and will obviously win for unstacked or SA since path A contributes nothing but DEX in those situations.

Regardless, you're not locked into one path. Reaugment as needed, get the best of both worlds.

So after some skirmish spam, I ended up with 4/5 of the Taeon set (Missing the hat) Can't decide what to augment them with, any suggestions?

Hmm, going to need to find someone with a spreadsheet because after the claim that Adhemar bonnet was the best for Rudra's I've seen no mention of Lilitu Headpiece. For comparable stats we have:

Adhemar path B:

STR+29 DEX+31 Attack+41 crit dmg+5%

Lility Headpiece:
STR+32 DEX+36 Attack+35 WSD+3%

Just looking at it and it's looking like stacked Rudra's = Adhemar path B and unstacked = Lilitu.

And now this discussion is making me look into getting one as I didn't really see it that significantly but the arguments here are good for it having its place.

It's Dedition Earring not Dudgeon Earring :D. And yes I think Adhemar +1 head is a much better choice than Dampening Tam. I have updated the set to reflect this.

After pondering this a bit today, I am actually slightly confused now. Is it known exactly how multi attacks are applied? There is the obvious inferred conclusions (ignoring any other sources of multi attack.)

The following python code is a mock implementation.


This is straightforward and yields an average strikes per hand.

mean = qa*4 + (1 - qa)*(ta*3 + (1 - ta)*(da*2 + (1 - da)))

There's another possible implementation that is also somewhat inferred.


This may seem slightly odd at first but the C or C++ implementation could possibly run faster. This would yield the following.

mean = qa*4 + ta*3 + da*2 + (1 - qa - ta - da)

I'm sure someone has tested it I just haven't been able to find it. The means for each approach are different enough to be significant with the amount of multi attack gear there is now. My guess is the former approach because it makes more sense to me.

The former, with OAX coming after DA.

Unless you're using rudra's unstacked to apply Twashter's aftermath, why would you not use evisceration instead? And Path A is better for pure damage than Path B because of the combined 22.5 attack, not the 10 str. I can literally see the difference when a geo uses bolster. Things have high defense and you won't be capped on relevant content very often. I have 393 dex in my rudra's set so it's base damage hovers around 3200 at 1kTP and 6000 at 2K Tp. In comparison 10 agi is weak, and the attack helps evisceration out as well.

That was why I went with path A on my adhemar bonnet and chose to TP in skulker's +1. I wanted to keep my accuracy without sacrificing any weaponskill power at all. My gear's improved since then though, and now standing in jeuno unbuffed I have 1133 accuracy. Add Ionis, sublime sushi, and boost-dex and I'm up to 1275 accuracy. I fulltime my adhemer jacket and wristbands which are also path A for max damage, so I could raise my accuracy to 1320 if I went path B on all 3 pieces. That's serious overkill though for most content. I think you're right about tp'ing in the bonnet. I'm gonna make the swap. I think I may even be able to get by with a fulltime path A bonnet aug since path B still gives me 10 dex. Toutatamis's cape really gave some wiggle room there.

Edit: Holy crap did I underestimate the adhemar bonnet. I just checked my stats in game. My attack went from 1142 to 1190 standing in adoulin. It's still path A, and I have 1118 accuracy unbuffed. I should still be able to cap accuracy on sinister reign after buffs. I like it a lot!

Skillchain purposes.

Rudra > Leaden > Rudra if with a COR.

Rudra > Evisc > Rudra if playing solo (and without a COR I usually don't get to stack that final Rudra).

Or if I'm playing fancy I'll go:

Rudra > Mandalic > Evisc > Rudra > Rudra

Only that first one has any real chance at being stacked.

Fair enough. That thought never occurred to me because rudra's has pathetic skillchain properties and evisceration chains with half of everything, particularly all those CDC spams you see everywhere nowadays. I was thinking of a group content rather than solo.

I am a one man army.

...with proper support.

Thanks although I was asking for validation (data) as I haven't been able to find any and I don't think it's prudent to assume one way or the other.

I am on the fence regarding Adhemar Wristbands +1 vs Herculean. For Aeneas/Twashtar combo, your white damage will probably go down (losing 2 TA but gain 2 critical hit rate from the set bonus.) The 7 store tp will move base TP per strike from 75 to 79 (Store TP +51 > Store TP +58) and results in more TP per round despite the loss in TA.

The best testing I could find was some iffy stuff buried under heaps of irrelevant discussion on Studio Gobli.

And anyway, this reminded me that I wanted to add multi-hit tracking to my parser, and also gave me a good excuse to test it out thoroughly.

99THF/BLM (capped JP/merit): 19% TA
Single-handed weapon (Trainee's Needle)
Atmas: Apoc: 15% TA, A/O: 10% TA
Gear: 2% QA 25% TA 16% DA

Total Base: 2% QA, 69% TA, 16% DA

Data:
total rounds: 1305
N: 337 (25.82%)
DA: 60 (4.6%)
TA: 884 (67.74%)
QA: 24 (1.84%)

If there is a precedence of QA > TA > DA > N then we would expect the effective result to be:
2% QA, 67.62% TA, 4.86% DA, 25.52% N

Ah, that's an excellent test. Thanks!

I just got a Grunfeld Rope.. funny because I don't need t2 or many t3 drops, but I've been taking some time to catch up on the RuAnn t1s on my list (because we never do them in events).

I saw some people using it in sets, was curious if it's good for anything. I notice people using Wanion over Fotia for Rudras for example.. would Grunfeld operate similarly? Seems decent for TP acc sets.. but was curious how other people are using it in their sets.

It's been gone over lots of times already on fotia, basically it isn't 10% WSD, it's .1 ftp, SE labeled it weird so you get a lot of confused people. For something like rudra with high ftp and is single hit without ftp carring through on extra hits from multi-attack and offhand, it starts to be very bad damage compared to other options even including the chance to keep your tp. Things like CDC, Evisceration, and other WS where ftp carries are what fotia is basically made for. If you need a lot of WS accuracy you can also use Fotia. For most other ws though, you're better off playing to their stat modifiers, attack and str, and crit chance/dmg or mab for magical for ones that applies.

Grunfeld is one of the best options for rudra then, Wanion too and which wins will depend entirely how much defense the mob has, effectively after debuffs, and how much attack you have, not strictly in pDIF sense, as the larger those numbers are the less a static 20 attack means. Basically it boils down to in a given situation how much that 20 attack counts for.

In unbuffed situations on a level 124 mob with 1090 def I show grunfeld wins for stacked rudra, with 30% def down on the mob and an 11 chaos roll, they are almost identical in worth. After that Wanion starts winning. So I'd say to play to what kind of environment you usually are using THF in. If you always have an Idris geo mule following you around doing frailty + fury it's obviously Wanion but if you solo with trusts a lot go with grunfeld, or can try to manage it in game. But it gets really hard to manage stuff like that especially in party situations where buffs fall off/get dispelled etc.

Wanion in an optimal situation wins by more than Grunfeld in an optimal situation for it, but I guess that's a given when you start stacking on buffs etc they tend to multiply differences. You can't really declare an overall winner, because they are both situational. You can at least leave your prosilio +1 out now though for Rudra's, with grunfeld taking it's place. Even against Tojil who has 1900 defense and not using much attack buffs, grunfeld beats it out.

tl;dr: Grunfeld for solo play, Wanion for well supported situations or trash mobs.

Does anyone have a fairly up to date spreadsheet they could send my way or a link to one? It would be much appreciated!

Cheers^^

So there is not a newish one floating around?

The RNG gods have been benevolent.

On my first day of being able to do SR I managed to score a nearly max aug'd Lilitu Headpiece and a max aug'd Taming Sari. In one day I have improved my Rudra's Damage by about 25%. I love this game, sometimes I actually have luck.

Screw you.

One time in 13 years of playing FFXI I have good luck. Normally I can't get a drop to save my life.

Edit: Twice really I've had luck on this scale. The other time was when I crafted 4 Cursed Hauberk -1s in 20 synths. But even that was kind of mixed luck, since literally the next update is when they released iLvl equipment.

This would be much appreciated as well!

Here's the one I use and updated: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0r3vet4ta25qg23/DPS+Calculator+-+Thf+general-custom2.xlsx and recently fixed a few things in as well, enjoy spreadsheeting!

Edit: Some updates weren't in the uploaded version, I fixed that so please redownload.

I'm sure some others have done this but I'm sharing it, I had a GEO friend help me :) Here's Aeneas Umbra after 4 step solo skillchain on Apex Bats. Exenterator -> Rudra's Storm -> Evisceration -> Trick Attack Rudra's Storm



I was very happy with the result, it can be a great dagger. I still want to make Vajra, but this is a really fun dagger, and at least with some GEO buff help I was right you can do 99999 Umbra with that chain, it's adding more than 300% damage here. My TP was around 1500 when I used TA Rudra iirc. Getting AM 3 by 3k TP Exenterator, then doing Rudra to Rudra got me only a bit over double 30k WS, so about 65k Damage and used a total of aobut 3k + 1k + 1.5k TP where the 4 step chain takes 1k + 1k + 1k + 1.5k, so a net savings of 1k TP for more damage. However, you have to deal with trusts interrupting the skillchain sometimes at least if using a tank one :< This wasn't capped pdif situation, nor capped TP for closing Umbra, let alone using things like allies roll or inundation, so seems fairly easy to use this method to get capped damage with aeonic dagger. With multiple DD, or shorter chains, gets harder to pull off as big a close, but I am not disappointed in it at all :D

Time of this screenshot it was non idris Geo bolster frailty and torpor and entrust precision, precision probably wasn't needed but it was nice to not worry about acc.

Here's a few more chains that would work with DD I find myself playing with and allow THF to build up a ton of TP to close easily:
BLU + THF: Exenterator -> CDC -> Requiescat -> Stacked Rudra
NIN + THF: Exenterator -> Rudra -> Blade: Hi -> Stacked Rudra

Any job that has a gravitation WS would let thf build more TP for the final close, and if they have both Distortion and Gravitation even better. The only weapons that don't have at least one gravitation WS are great axe, great sword, bows and clubs really so that still leaves 10 other weapon types, though axe is only with onslaught which not all jobs get. For BLU and NIN though it works out nice since Blade: Hi is one of NIN best options and BLU CDC is their best option (though requiescat not so much anymore). It would work out great with DRG too, since Stardiver is one of their goto.

Well, I'm excited. You CAN buy a duplicate Toutatis's cape this month.

20dex, 20acc/20attk, 10% crit rate for building TP and evisceration Yes Please!!

Unfortunately they added re skinned Usukane to the total tally. I really don't want the Hizumaru set, even though it is really good for the jobs. I'll take it of course, but I'd have literally preferred ANY of the other 3 sets first.
m >.< m grumpy mithra nyao mrawr mrawr meow mrawwr!!! *shake paw*

Also, apparently you can augment (and re-augment) ambuscade gear now with abdhalis needles. I didn't get a chance to read up on Gallantry before I left for work, but I did note that needles aren't available for hallmarks, so they're probably a gallantry reward. I'll just hoard mine until they release the skadi's set. I wonder how much they cost apiece.

This is not to augment the ambuscade set i believe (maybe i'm wrong and please correct me if i am^^!), this is to change the augments on a Cape w/o having to buy 6000 abdj dust/sap/etc worth of augments... And it costs 1100 gallantry points iirc!

I think you're right. I probably misinterpreted the patch notes when I read them this morning. This section here pretty much confirms what you just suggested


That makes gallantry points completely worthless to me. I don't plan to reaugment anything.

Melphina,

I have read that you can get dusts/threads/saps with gallantry points too, so you could augment a 3rd cape if you wanted to this month.

I think you'd be better off making a Store TP cape. 10 critical hit rate is better than 10 WSD for evisceration, no doubt, but I feel 10 Store TP during TP phase is a much more significant improvement.

I've been thinking about this for a while and I chose Crit rate to start so I'm clearly a tad bias, but I think the white damage bonus from crit rate is just as potent as the STP in overall damage. 10% crit is a massive amount in one go, and the truly huge WS for all that TP are limited by timers. I will almost certainly make a STP cape, but I might go through some silly things like Fast Cast and Aeolian Edge ones first.

There's a lot of synergy in the crit rate cape with the critical attack bonus job trait (and adhemar bonnet). That's a lot of white damage right there, and I want my evisceration mantle first. Besides, it's not like we can't have all 3 next month. Just hold one cape in your inventory, the second in one mog wardrobe, and the third in the other. You can macro all 3 at the same time, so there's really no reason to fuss over the order you build them.

I think you might be surprised if you try and math it out. Crit rate is underwhelming, especially at high cRatio. The benefit you see also would depend a lot on what you're doing. For solo, Evisceration > Rudra's > Rudra's is probably your best bet in which case there is a huge payoff for having more TP on Rudra's. If you're grouping with a BLU then Evisceration only is probably the way to go so you can still at least skillchain. In that context, crit rate would be more meaningful. It's not the first time I've seen this sentiment though. People oggle crit rate but the math disagrees.