The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
Fer real. I thougt mine were pretty awesome till I saw those...
lol i get pretty lucky with rng in this game for some reason
Odyssean legs can be a PITA because of how many non-DD augments share the slot with Store TP, get silly ***like Cure Pot / Cure Received / ect. So far have AGI +7 Acc +26 Atk +18 Store TP +6 which lets me get exactly 64 Store TP with Rag.
hi all,
after great disappointment with ninja, i am planning to build a RME for warrior. I am a great axe person but it seen like everyone favor great sword. Is ukonvasarat really so weak compare to ragnarok?? WS Damage vs WS Frequency and White Damage.
The gap is probably greatly overstated under most circumstances. Mighty Strikes zerging is definitely Rags win though.
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You will do enough damage with Ukon but make sure to get the T2 greatsword from Reisenjama for time that you shouldn't skillchain.
sabrtooth said: » hi all, after great disappointment with ninja, i am planning to build a RME for warrior. I am a great axe person but it seen like everyone favor great sword. Is ukonvasarat really so weak compare to ragnarok?? Yes it is though it's more a problem with Ukkos Fury being bad and STR not doing much for Upheaval. AM3 is cool but virtually all your damage comes from WS. Which brings me to the other GAXEs, Chango is going to be your "OMFGBBQ" weapon when you can use GAXE real strength. GAXE has amazing SC power which is where GS suffers. With buffed Chango you can do really silly ***like 99k light's followed by 99k radiance. KJ -> SC -> Upheaval -> KJ -> Upheaval. If you don't need that long a SC then you can cut off some of the start for a three step. All of those WS scale nicely with TP Bonus of both Chango and Warcry. Hit MS before doing that and you will annihilate whatever your fighting.
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Conqueror is a lot of fun too. Having 1000 tp faster than you can use it is a blast. Switch to rag for the big fights.
Conqueror's average TP generation isn't notably faster than any other gaxe nowadays. Sky-high baseline DA rate heavily depreciates the value of AM3 (and AM3 is more likely to create overflow, which still improves output but not to the extent you see with a WS like Resolution), but there's another consideration that doesn't come up in this conversation very often: high delay. Conqueror's 504 delay is the highest among the RMEA gaxes, 5% slower than Chango's 480 delay.
For comparison's sake, Byrth posted a tidbit on Conqueror about this time last year wherein Conqueror's average hits/round was only ~4% higher than Ukonvasara's in TP gear. I don't know what exactly he was using for respective sets at the time and gearing options have obviously changed since then (comparison did include early Ambuscade gear), but I'm inclined to guess that the changes have not significantly altered those results in Conqueror's favor. If anything, it's probably worse off than before. COR buffs would also further hamper Conqueror if you're getting Fighter's Roll. Conq's AM3 does jack ***for WAR's TP gain rate vs Chango (Store TP +10) and is only slightly faster then Ukon. Building TP to 3K for AM3 is a big waste of time. Conq is a great weapon, not because of it's AM3 but because it's passive boost to Berserk is insane and the 30% bonus to KJ makes it extremely nice to spam. My basic TP set has some QA, TA and 77% DA with the appropriate X-hit, Chango sets will have the same QA, TA with 90% DA. At those levels adding more multi-attack doesn't really do anything for your TP generation.
I'm wondering why the guide doesn't speak about the Great Axe Aganoshe, after all it comes from Bashmu in Reisenjima, which is a tier 2 (level 135). Shouldn't this axe be cool and good.
Also which augments do you suggest? Thank you! :) Ukon is a great weapon. Make it if you like Great Axe.
Its not a waste of time, its just not the best at the moment. These black and white answers are getting old. Something is either omgamazing or its downright obsolete - the truth is it can be outperformed in many situations, but you won't feel gimp and the numbers won't be drastically against you. Most of the time if you're an aggressive player you can (and i often do) beat the ***out of rags/calads by just being a better player. Pop retaliation, get cure bombed and fellcleave mass pulls in omens when objectives are over. If parse bragging rights is what you want, no calad or rag is going to be able to keep up.
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on the guide it says Valorous and Odyssean augmented with QA+3
What is meant by QA+? quadra attack? because i dont see that even available as an augment according to bg wiki ? IBHalliwell said: » I'm wondering why the guide doesn't speak about the Great Axe Aganoshe, after all it comes from Bashmu in Reisenjima, which is a tier 2 (level 135). Shouldn't this axe be cool and good. Also which augments do you suggest? Thank you! :) trying to get it myself and test it. but i got a feeling instigator is better because of the berserk buff. i'll have to see if i can get good augments on it. Asura.Starfishsky said: » on the guide it says Valorous and Odyssean augmented with QA+3 What is meant by QA+? quadra attack? because i dont see that even available as an augment according to bg wiki ? DM aug, and there is a campaign this month for it! Asura.Azagarth said: » Asura.Starfishsky said: » on the guide it says Valorous and Odyssean augmented with QA+3 What is meant by QA+? quadra attack? because i dont see that even available as an augment according to bg wiki ? DM aug, and there is a campaign this month for it! oh god that dark matter is so expensive to RNG with. hmmmmm, how bad is the RNG for it? You should probably just aim for DA or Store TP augments using regular stones.
ye guess that would a good start.
So I was looking at some fun war setups, probably not best DPS, but honestly When I use war its because of the fun 100% da rate. I think it offers alot for practical play. That being said 7hit and 5hit are the only things that become really important to that race to 1k tp for me, since ws+6(3) and ws+4(2) rounds are what I am looking at.
ItemSet 350469 this set provides 67 DA + 33, for 100% DA rate, has high acc AND maintains a 7hit always (ws+3 rounds) or with a 7 cor roll which any cor should have up if rolling sams it makes a 5hit (ws+2 rounds). I think thats pretty neat to have a set you can time your button smashing on of 2 rounds :D forgot to mention this is a non /sam set lol. With /sam things change up. The gear set page has actually been updated for a bit now. I am not completely done yet, but most of the S Tier sets are updated.
Right now I have sets broken down into 3 categories: S Tier: No considerations into price or rarity. DM augments, expensive HQ gear, all tiers of Escha/Omen NM gear and jinxed/voodoo included. A Tier: Still nearly the best, but with considerations into rarity and price. No super expensive gear, no DM augments and no Omen bodies considered. B Tier: Baseline set for what you should have before bringing WAR to anything meaningful. Nothing above Reisen tier 1 and no Omen boss drops considered. Still fleshing out A and B and still willing to take examples/ideas for all tiers if anyone has. I question your S tier sets for a few reasons. You're using Ragnarok in your great sword sets and foregoing x-hit sets. I've been doubting whether it's WAR's BiS great sword because of the gear you need to sacrifice in order to maintain 3/4 hit sets. If you don't need the accuracy then I have serious doubts as to whether it's worth it. When you're 3 hitting, weapon skill damage completely eclipses melee damage. A small bump in white damage is all Rag would be doing for you (and it might actually be lowering it because of all of the other gear you give up.)
Zulfiqar/Montante +1 both make 3 hitting much more viable because of the increased delay. Montante +1 also has some nice status and with good augments. Zulfiqar should be able to put up higher Resolution numbers than Ragnarok. The effect of delay when you're 3 hitting is also lower than you might expect. You end up doing WS -> DA/TA/QA -> WS most of the time, at which point the WS cooldown lockout becomes the more significant part of your delay. You might also be able to get some interesting Zulfiqar DM augments too. Missing some Ukko's sets. Be a dear and upgrade so a Galka can struggle less**
Oh, I don't doubt that at all. I just defaulted to Ragnarok because of the extra accuracy and 269 skill. While it might not be a factor in super buffed zergs, it is in almost everything else.
I think based on what you're saying, I'll add a "super buffed" set for max pure DPS. Checked quick and Montante +1 is .3% better than 121 Ragnarok using the sheets. Though, Ragnarok is actually 3hit with CC/lucky SAM roll. A four hit base set is pretty much useless as you end up giving up too much multi-attack. For a 431 delay weapon your talking 250/122.36 = 2.043 or 105 Store TP, not to mention what it would do to the WS set. Five hit base is far easier, 200/122.36 = 1.634 or 64 Store TP, which gives FAR more room for adding in multi-attack. Samurai's Roll then bumps that person up a notch while Fighters can't do the same because you can't have more then 100% DA and WAR's already getting damn close to that as is. The 480 delay weapons are a bit weird because they require 87 Store TP, low enough to be reachable yet high enough that people are going to have to make sacrifices to get there that might actually end up hurting TP gain speed. Zulfiqar packs it down to 79 Store TP needed.
The basic decision is to gear for a 4-hit and give up Multi-Attack or stay with a 5-hit and push tons of Multi-Attack. Multi-Attack acts as a +100/200/300 Store TP when it procs as you get double/triple/quadruple your TP gain from the extra attacks. Because of how powerful SAM's roll is compared to Fighters I tend to go with five-hits combined with tons of Multi-Attack to reach the fastest time to 1000, which brings me to something else, skillchains. Everyone needs to learn how to make their own multi-step SC's, especially with Great Axe's. Tuned properly a GAXE can do ridiculous damage if the target is vulnerable to SC's. Lately I've been using Chango more often then Rag precisely for making big lights and radiances. That exact line of thought is why I'm suggesting Ragnarok is not BiS for WAR. You can do 3 hit for zerging situations and possibly 4 hit otherwise (although I haven't actually looked at the sets for 4 hit, this is an assumption) although I agree that if you're not zerging something you should probably be using Chango.
Three hit would require 334/122.36 = 2.729, 173 Store TP, isn't going to happen. Even if someone could hit that number, they would be WSing in their TP gear just to maintain it.
Four hit with Rag is possible with SAM's roll, yet that always lowers the x-hit by one and shouldn't be used for base set comparisons. Another big issue is that the 2s (120 delay) pause that happens after any WS or JA becomes a bigger issue once your under a 5-hit. No amount of Haste, Multi-Attack or Store TP will reduce that wait. Zulfiqar is in an interesting position because it's Store TP requirements are in the intersection between "Heavy Store TP" and "Heavy Multi-Attack" which makes it 100% based on what gear the player has at their disposal. 79 Store TP is definitely within reach yet the player will have to wear Store TP over MA gear which would lower their average number of attacks per round and thus could result in lower WS speed. Yet that could easily go the other direction depending on how good their gear was. Finally a note on why we use the proper x-hit terminology. The TP returned from WS needs to be taken into consideration because it determines how much more is needed to reach the next WS. We change gear whenever we WS, meaning at lower x-hit levels we end up getting less TP from the WS then our average attack round and need to further increase our Store TP, or the opposite which enables us to drop some Store TP in favor of MA. Also the WS has a fixed duration of 120s while the attack round will have a duration considerably less from haste, this ends up skewing the averaged WS time. And none of this discuss's Retaliation which does crazy things for WAR's TP gain. I have a pretty bad *** Zulfiqar that I bring out to screw with people who inside on building the shiny AG weapon before getting high end gear. Rag is for Accuracy and abusing current gear meta for super low times to 1000. And contrary to what people think, Accuracy is always important. We don't need stupid high amounts like before, but we can't completely ignore it like we did during Abyseaa and post-iLevel delve either. I tend to set benchmarks at around 1100 / 1200 and 1300 respectively and then use food and buffs to min/max for the boss at hand. Something else to remember is that boss's have lots of annoying dispel moves and level up moves so all DD's need to base their strategy around that. Nothing sucks worse then seeing Interference nuke out your SV'd HM or Crooked 11 SAM's roll that someone was relying on to deal damage. You're overlooking Miser's Roll. It's pretty easy to abuse the escha temp item NPCs and get crooked miser's XI + crooked samurai XI. Assuming Phantom Roll +5, you're left needing to get 305 TP per strike for a 3 hit, or 130 Store TP if you're using Montante +1. Crooked XI Samurai Roll gives you 84 if you get the roll bonus and Montante +1 has 11 Store TP and samurai subjob gives 15. You only need 20 store TP from other gear (although you'd probably want 32 in case you don't get the job bonus.) That's pretty easy to do. If your COR is up to date and has Phantom Roll +7, you go from needing 305 TP per strike to 287. The required Store TP drops to 116. Furthermore, the amount gained from Samurai Roll increases to 93. Samurai subjob + Montante +1 leave you at needing literally 0 additional Store TP from gear to 3 hit (or 9 from gear if you don't get the job bonus)
For reference, in the same conditions the amount of additional store TP (i.e. not from /SAM or from your weapon/sub) you would need to 3 hit with Ragnarok is 51 (63 w/o job bonus) for Phantom Roll +5 and 28 (40 w/o job bonus) for Phantom Roll +7.
Don't forget WAR can come close, if not exceed, 2hits/round average. In the first Ragnarok TP set, it doesn't have a true 3hit from STP, but it averages 2 hits/round.
True 3hit would seemingly be better since you can WS>DA for 1000 TP again, but like Mojo said, at that point you're running up hard against the WS delay wall, which could have a negative effect. It would come down to getting 1 swing and WSing at 1000 TP on average vs 2 swings and WSing at around 1500 TP on average.
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And none of that is relevant. You would end up with 3min rolls after the COR was done dicking around with that npc and you still have to run to pop spot.
What's really happening is your using mule cors to toss on extra rolls the kicking them while ignoring all the times your CORs bust or roll non-11s. There is a recast to all those JAs, I've had CORs screw around for 3min trying for double 11s until we told them to stop and just accept what they got. For this reason relying on 11s is stupid and counterproductive. You end up wasting more time then the fight takes, not to mention having to do this in the middle of a fight. Three-hit with Rag is 173 Store TP. Crooked SAM's is +81 since we're WAR's remember leaving 92 remaining so reachable if you already had a four-hit (105 Store TP) without SAM's. Miser's just lets you WS in actual WS gear but even then your going to be really low on Multi-Attack which would defeat the entire purpose. What I see you two saying is "when the sun is at high noon, the constellation Aries is behind my right shoulder, while standing in the Dunes under the effect of heatwave, then I can do <insert bad *** ***here>." When pressed on the impracticality of such assumptions the defensive reaction is "I would never do a fight where the sun wasn't at it's highest with the constellation Aries behind my right shoulder in the dunes under heatwave." Which goes to show it's just for humble bragging and not real information / advice for other players. Players need strategies that are easily reproducible and that don't rely on luck (SE's random number generator). Having everyone stand around the NPC in Escha while the COR attempts to roll double crooked 11's for a fight that takes 2~3 min without them, all so someone can humble brag about a "three hit" on a job they don't even play is dumb. Just roll regularly and steam roll things that need steamrolled. If a group isn't capable of doing that, then they have far bigger issues. Anyhow back to everyone else on the topic of x-hits. It's going to typically be a five hit base (that SAM's brings to four hit) with a ***ton of multi-attack, possibly a four hit on Chango, Zulfiqar or even one of the GAXE's if the player's gear / augments lean towards Store TP over Multi-Attack. It's the same situation Rag builds found themselves in back at 99 Voidwatch era.
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