The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Lakshmi.Leaucant
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By Lakshmi.Leaucant 2013-11-24 16:02:57
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i saw that set but was hoping thier was a better set using more of the new gear
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-24 16:07:40
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Lakshmi.Leaucant said: »
i saw that set but was hoping thier was a better set using more of the new gear

There more than likely are other sets that are nearly as good or better in specific situations, but the answer is pretty much always going to be the same... "in that situation, you'd be using X weaponskill instead"
 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2013-11-25 06:46:02
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Came back after a 5 month break. Since, my gear was 5 months behind the curve I spent the first three weeks on cor.

I was not once asked for sam roll, even when swapping pts with another cor. Anyone tested on the spreedsheet current best tp gear assuming no sam roll?
 Lakshmi.Eyrhika
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2013-11-25 08:13:44
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While you never rolled SAM I can bet tacticians was there, which throws a lot of x-hit math out of the window
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By Zillion 2013-11-29 00:56:31
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so what does a max resolution build for war look like now
 Ragnarok.Baconfat
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By Ragnarok.Baconfat 2013-11-29 04:37:11
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Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
Came back after a 5 month break. Since, my gear was 5 months behind the curve I spent the first three weeks on cor.

I was not once asked for sam roll, even when swapping pts with another cor. Anyone tested on the spreedsheet current best tp gear assuming no sam roll?

After months of Delve runs on COR (with my LS, as a guest with other LS, and in PUG/shout groups), I have never been asked to rotate or to roll anything other than Fighter's and Chaos. Those are the two rolls you get in any group I've run with.

That being said, I've played around with sets that don't use any outside STP or regain, and I've been using this set. It yields exactly 20TP per swing, so you get a true 5-hit. It's not vastly different from Ejiin's set, mainly just needed to cram a few extra STP in there (had to dig the Goading Belt out of the closet). I parse well with this set.

ItemSet 314314
 Cerberus.Doctorugh
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2013-11-29 10:44:42
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Zillion said: »
so what does a max resolution build for war look like now


ItemSet 313104

All miki. set STR path (obvious)
 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2013-11-29 11:38:01
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Ragnarok.Baconfat said: »
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
Came back after a 5 month break. Since, my gear was 5 months behind the curve I spent the first three weeks on cor.

I was not once asked for sam roll, even when swapping pts with another cor. Anyone tested on the spreedsheet current best tp gear assuming no sam roll?

After months of Delve runs on COR (with my LS, as a guest with other LS, and in PUG/shout groups), I have never been asked to rotate or to roll anything other than Fighter's and Chaos. Those are the two rolls you get in any group I've run with.

That being said, I've played around with sets that don't use any outside STP or regain, and I've been using this set. It yields exactly 20TP per swing, so you get a true 5-hit. It's not vastly different from Ejiin's set, mainly just needed to cram a few extra STP in there (had to dig the Goading Belt out of the closet). I parse well with this set.

ItemSet 314314

I had same thoughts except mini feet and the new 4 da 5 haste belt.

Will try and check it on spreedsheets this weekend
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-29 12:16:29
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Zillion said: »
so what does a max resolution build for war look like now


ItemSet 313104

All miki. set STR path (obvious)

I'm curious about whether steelflash/bladeborn actually beats Brutal/moonshade below 275 TP. 2% DA vs a straight damage multiplier.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-29 13:22:42
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Am I going blind? I thought a Resolution set was asked for, not Ruinator?
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-11-29 13:26:04
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Resolution and Ruinator use the same gear with the exception of earrings.
[+]
 Asura.Azeran
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By Asura.Azeran 2013-11-29 13:30:32
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Might be a dumb question, possibly not seeing the full benefits, but what makes cizin better than mikinaak? I see the lesser stats, izin has more to each stat, but an upgraded rank 15 mikinaak breastplate has 25 strength about 18 extra accuracy and 33 extra attack so if you don't need haste on your body piece, is it just the double attack augment that makes it pull ahead?

Edit: referring to body pieces specifically
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-29 13:41:12
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There's a fair amount of people who design a TP set around restraint. I had 4 different TP sets depending if Restraint was up/down and accuracy needs for each.
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By Kyler 2013-11-29 14:23:40
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Asura.Azeran said: »
Might be a dumb question, possibly not seeing the full benefits, but what makes cizin better than mikinaak? I see the lesser stats, izin has more to each stat, but an upgraded rank 15 mikinaak breastplate has 25 strength about 18 extra accuracy and 33 extra attack so if you don't need haste on your body piece, is it just the double attack augment that makes it pull ahead?

Edit: referring to body pieces specifically

Mostly the haste. It's kind of hard to notice in the sheer quantity of other garbage attached to cizin mail, even before you augment it but it does have 3 haste, where miki body does not. This allows you to use windbuffet belt and cap haste (with the 2% from Ionis) in SoA zones.
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By Kyler 2013-11-29 14:27:18
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Odin.Jassik said: »
There's a fair amount of people who design a TP set around restraint. I had 4 different TP sets depending if Restraint was up/down and accuracy needs for each.

A lot of those sets died out when upheaval and resolution became more favorable weaponskills to use because as far as I know the ws bonus from restraint only applies to the first hit, like most ws bonus's from gear. I never saw evidence supporting either way but based on how everything else works I've always assumed it worked that way.

Obviously with ukko's and metatron back in the mix there would be times when TPing in the gloves would be optimal again I would imagine. The stats on the gloves aren't that terrible even by todays standards either.
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2013-11-29 15:18:39
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Sorry I have some newbie questions. If I get a good axe then would 5/5 merit Ruinator be a viable WS vs a 1/5 merit Upheaval or Ukko's Fury vs non-relic 1/5 merit Resolution?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-29 15:22:19
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Leviathan.Andret said: »
Sorry I have some newbie questions. If I get a good axe then would 5/5 merit Ruinator be a viable WS vs a 1/5 merit Upheaval or Ukko's Fury vs non-relic 1/5 merit Resolution?

If the idea is to play WAR without meriting Upheaval because you already have too many WS.... meh, sorta.

It forces you to gimp yourself with a subjob that offers dual wield. You lower your overall damage potential a bit as well. But Ruinator has like a 35% attack bonus, making it pretty potent on high level targets. Dual wield axe is a pretty niche use for WAR as it stands.
 Cerberus.Fiasko
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By Cerberus.Fiasko 2013-11-29 15:59:01
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What is the best set up for Ragnarok these days?
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-06 23:13:02
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Leviathan.Andret said: »
Sorry I have some newbie questions. If I get a good axe then would 5/5 merit Ruinator be a viable WS vs a 1/5 merit Upheaval or Ukko's Fury vs non-relic 1/5 merit Resolution?

Sorry for late reply. Depends what your fighting. You only need 32% DW to hit delay floor with haste and +5 march's so your pretty even with 2H DPS, assuming you have the 119 and 115 Axe. You have the same pDiff cap and accuracy bonus, the real problem is that your off hand only gets the 2:1 STR ratio and has a lower DPS then your 119 main hand.

This actually brings up something interesting, assuming no 119 RME's involved, how would the 117 RF compare to the 119/115 KH Axe setup? Ruinator is a devastating WS so I'm curious how the DPS would stack between the various setups. Running crude DPS cals has the Kere/Hatx combo ahead in melee DPS by a pretty significant lead that grows bigger as you tack on fSTR. I have a funny feeling that RF would get more total WS's, and both WS's look about even at capped attack. Using napkin math though so there could be quite a bit more involved.
 
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-06 23:22:58
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If you aren't getting massive attack buffs, Ruinator is probably going to be be on par or slightly ahead of UF/Upheaval. But, as soon as you have real attack buffs, Resolution takes the cake by a long shot. Ruinator's only real appeal for WAR is the attack bonus on high level targets.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-07 00:10:35
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Sylph.Josiahfk said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Sorry I have some newbie questions. If I get a good axe then would 5/5 merit Ruinator be a viable WS vs a 1/5 merit Upheaval or Ukko's Fury vs non-relic 1/5 merit Resolution?

Sorry for late reply. Depends what your fighting. You only need 32% DW to hit delay floor with haste and +5 march's so your pretty even with 2H DPS, assuming you have the 119 and 115 Axe. You have the same pDiff cap and accuracy bonus, the real problem is that your off hand only gets the 2:1 STR ratio and has a lower DPS then your 119 main hand.

This actually brings up something interesting, assuming no 119 RME's involved, how would the 117 RF compare to the 119/115 KH Axe setup? Ruinator is a devastating WS so I'm curious how the DPS would stack between the various setups. Running crude DPS cals has the Kere/Hatx combo ahead in melee DPS by a pretty significant lead that grows bigger as you tack on fSTR. I have a funny feeling that RF would get more total WS's, and both WS's look about even at capped attack. Using napkin math though so there could be quite a bit more involved.
I've been wondering something similar. Could the warrior go with farsha 119 and kclub then wear "double attack rate down" plus extreme acc gear to help ungimp the kclub and increase weapon skill frequency enough to be worthwhile?

No just no. Never ever use kclub... ever. The skill bonus only effects that hand. The 119 axe and then offhand the highest ilevel possible.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-07 00:14:28
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Odin.Jassik said: »
If you aren't getting massive attack buffs, Ruinator is probably going to be be on par or slightly ahead of UF/Upheaval. But, as soon as you have real attack buffs, Resolution takes the cake by a long shot. Ruinator's only real appeal for WAR is the attack bonus on high level targets.

I am talking about no 119 rme. So no conq, bravura, or rag. Just easy stuff that u can get without large gil & time investment. I say that cause ppl need something to use while they are collecting their 119 items.
 
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-07 00:30:22
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
If you aren't getting massive attack buffs, Ruinator is probably going to be be on par or slightly ahead of UF/Upheaval. But, as soon as you have real attack buffs, Resolution takes the cake by a long shot. Ruinator's only real appeal for WAR is the attack bonus on high level targets.

I am talking about no 119 rme. So no conq, bravura, or rag. Just easy stuff that u can get without large gil & time investment. I say that cause ppl need something to use while they are collecting their 119 items.

I'd wager that razorfury + Upheaval/Ukko's is still going to blow ruinator away when you're properly buffed. I'd say a 10M G.axe is going to be easier to get than a pair of RA/EX axes. I still see Ruinator WAR as a pretty niche use for MOST players, whether they have 119 RME's or not.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-07 01:12:18
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
If you aren't getting massive attack buffs, Ruinator is probably going to be be on par or slightly ahead of UF/Upheaval. But, as soon as you have real attack buffs, Resolution takes the cake by a long shot. Ruinator's only real appeal for WAR is the attack bonus on high level targets.

I am talking about no 119 rme. So no conq, bravura, or rag. Just easy stuff that u can get without large gil & time investment. I say that cause ppl need something to use while they are collecting their 119 items.

I'd wager that razorfury + Upheaval/Ukko's is still going to blow ruinator away when you're properly buffed. I'd say a 10M G.axe is going to be easier to get than a pair of RA/EX axes. I still see Ruinator WAR as a pretty niche use for MOST players, whether they have 119 RME's or not.

I thought so too until I did some math on it. RF is ilevel 117, kere is 119 and hax is 115. They all have the same ratio cap and acc bonus. DW brings the melee dps of the KH combo higher then the RF which suprised me. When I get home I will run them through some more thorough math. Just remember SE ungimped DW, its no longer an automatic damage loss like it used to be.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-12-07 02:08:46
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Josiahkf said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Sylph.Josiahfk said: »
I've been wondering something similar. Could the warrior go with farsha 119 and kclub then wear "double attack rate down" plus extreme acc gear to help ungimp the kclub and increase weapon skill frequency enough to be worthwhile?

No just no. Never ever use kclub... ever. The skill bonus only effects that hand. The 119 axe and then offhand the highest ilevel possible.
duh, why you think I mentioned the bolded -_-

if some ranger can use relic99 and do 48k barrage dmg to the bee, I think a warrior with his inferior acc can easily overcome tojil's eva, was all I meant.
Was with full racc gear sets, courser's, chaos, rogue's, hunters, prelude x2 minuet x5. Acc shouldn't be an issue with superbuffs, but I still don't see the ws rate increase beating the major loss in offhand DPS. Run some numbers on it!
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-07 04:09:40
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Ok worked some magic on the spreadsheets and I can confidently say that those two DW axe's are about dead even with RF Upheavel spam. Tinkering with little things like 4~8 songs, the exact COR roll, Bolster up / down, and even the day bonus would swing the results back and forth but each was within a few percentage of each other on Tojil with Aura down (Aura up is a clear winning for DW setup). The biggest difference TP set wise is that Axe/Axe needs to pay a little more attention to accuracy due to off hand having lower hit rate. And store TP is more valuable to DW then most give it credit.

:Note:

With the absolute max you can through at a Tojil without Aura (so generic Delve super MB) we get the following.

Ruinator Average: 7184: Round/WS: 5.02: Cycle Time: 738: Cycle Damage: 13331

Upheaval Average: 5922: Round/WS: 3.77: Cycle Time: 528: Cycle Damage: 10076

KH Melee DPS: 596: Total DPS: 1083.624
RF Melee DPS: 610: Total DPS: 1144.496

And that's assuming Duplus Grip which is incredibly rare right now. It's also assuming perfect rolls, six +5 SV songs (nothing else to add), Geo Bolster, LS Dia III, Augmented Angon, Magma Steak, Day of the Week and Tojil's Aura down. Once angon wears off, or bolster is gone it's pretty lopsided in the other direction.

Also that's all the Delve MB gear. Since the 119 Axe drops of a Delve MB and we're using gear from Delve MB's I think it's safe to assume it'll be present. The 115 axe is from the easiest WKR, the one where the hardest part is ensuring you have enough points to warrant item drops and can be done totally solo. Both are well within the range of semi-casual players buying 119 RME items on the side as they build their Conq / Rag / Bravura.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-07 09:52:11
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Ya, that's about what i expected. I would imagine DW axe starts to fall significantly behind in other zones where DEF values are lower and ACC matters more.
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-12-07 14:35:54
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Ok worked some magic on the spreadsheets and I can confidently say that those two DW axe's are about dead even with RF Upheavel spam.
There is another tactical advantage on some mobs, which is that you can switch to sword mainhand for Requiescat without as much penalty as a WAR/SAM.
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