THF In Todays FFXI

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THF in todays FFXI
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 Bismarck.Chaosprime
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By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2012-12-07 11:37:13
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Hi Guys,

Thinking of coming back after almost a year break (yeah been a while) and wanted to know how THF keeps up in todays game (yes im a main THF :P). I have been hearing of gear sets of TH10 now, but damned if i can find any of the sort. Is there any truth to this? if so whats the new TH gear now to get you to TH10?

Though i have many jobs leveled, THF has become my love child so my enjoying the game really various on THF's usefulness lol

Well hope to hear from you all soon! And as many many many people have said, no one ever really quits.. They just lie to them selves to make themselves feel better lol

Thanks in advance for any inputs :)
CP
 
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 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-12-07 11:44:30
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THFs have TH3 trait and they can get up to +4 from their gear (Assassin's armlets +2, Raider's Poulaines +2, Thief's Knife).

In addition, the first hit by the main hand of each turn has a chance of "upgrading" TH beyond the level that's on the monster, which can get up to over TH10 depending on luck (Max I think I've seen is like 14).

The chance of upgrade is greatly increased if you land a sneak attack, trick attack, or a merited feint. Furthermore, the distance between your gear and the monster's TH level determines the upgrade rate.
 Bismarck.Chaosprime
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By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2012-12-07 11:55:51
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So still TH7 on first proc is the base TH attainable. Thats good to know.

And if i am reading what you said correctly Kincard, doesnt that mean full timing TH gear??

Sadly i seriously dont see this happening unless im farming lol. That truely does suck though. They could at least let us fuse the THF Knife with twilight.....
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-12-07 11:58:08
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At the moment, full-timing TH gear is somewhat of a debatable point. When you're soloing in like, Dynamis or something, it's usually not worth sacrificing the killspeed, but it's all up to you. I tend to pull with just the armlets and boots and then swap into melee gear depending on the situation. Usually not worth losing TP for Thief's Knife.

Lots of people think THFs should full-time TH gear in large-scale LS events since they're not there to do damage anyway, though.
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-12-07 12:12:12
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Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »
They could at least let us fuse the THF Knife with twilight.....

Combine two bad daggers into one bad dagger?

As nice as it would be to make a stronger Thief's Knife, unless it is the same name (ie an augment of some sorts), THF's would be expected to have both Thief's Knife and Thief's Knife +1 (imaginary name pending). Basically this would totally kill THF in the dd department on stuff where they expected to max TH on. At least they can currently mainhand Mandau/Twashtar/some other respectable dagger.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-07 12:22:27
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Leviathan.Kincard said: »
THFs have TH3 trait and they can get up to +4 from their gear (Assassin's armlets +2, Raider's Poulaines +2, Thief's Knife).

In addition, the first hit by the main hand of each turn has a chance of "upgrading" TH beyond the level that's on the monster, which can get up to over TH10 depending on luck (Max I think I've seen is like 14).

The chance of upgrade is greatly increased if you land a sneak attack, trick attack, or a merited feint. Furthermore, the distance between your gear and the monster's TH level determines the upgrade rate.

Um when did you see that, i thought SE stated the max its 12, or can it be forced higher with bounty shot?
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-12-07 12:25:42
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There's a couple things like grounds of valor, that one moogle power, and atma of dread that can bump it up. I don't recall SE ever saying that the max was 12 though?
 Carbuncle.Burkey
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By Carbuncle.Burkey 2012-12-07 12:28:26
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<- a career thf so i'll give you a bit of my mind.

1. TH total in gear is 7, you only need to have all of your TH gear for the FIRST HIT on anything to start at 7 and have a chance at raising it like these guys mentioned. For example, fighting NMs with a good bit of health, I would throw on AA+2/Feet+2/Thf knife for one hit, and then switch my offhand and my hands/legs to my tp gear. Specifically in dynamis, I full-time my thf's knife. With proper gear, samba, food, sneak attack and various weapon skills, you don't need a different offhand. You'd have to research neo-dynamis to learn the specs, but you find yourself often turning while trying to proc mobs (i.e. you should offhand your thf knife). If some believe thfs should main their th gear throughout an extensive fight they are rather uninformed; you do not need to do this.

2. You say that enjoying the game depends on THF's usefulness. Well, in almost every scenario where you are with a party farming items, there will be a thf, whether it be for farming common drop items or for the final boss kills. People who low man NMs typically don't bring thf to start or for obtaining key items, however.

3. The only downside to having thf as your main job, is that despite its treasure hunter and overall desirability, you unfortunately need to have relatively outstanding gear to parse close to the heavier DD jobs in the game. Solid TP, WS, and EVA sets are built from the top tier gear in the game (nyzul 2 for example, which soon will be more difficult to obtain). If you don't have the means to acquire nyzul gear, your AF3+2 gear is still a good set..BUT..

4. Almost every thf I see in this game has good daggers. Mandau and Twashtar are the biggest sought after weapons and it's sad to say that it's becoming staple/required for a thf to have at least one of the two. A lot of thfs work towards Mandau/STR dagger as a combination. Twashtar is also nice and despite the lengthy process to make one it is faster and cheaper than your relic Mandau. AGI daggers get you no where.

5. Um what else, I'm not sure.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me..may not see it right away but I will get back to you with specific answers :)
 
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By 2012-12-07 12:42:29
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By Aeyela 2012-12-07 12:43:33
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SE recently said you have more chance of getting higher TH upgrades with TH gear on throughout fighting the monster. I can't find the thread though. Anyone remember which one I'm referring to?

Edit: Thanks Ashman, I beat you by a whole six seconds!
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 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-12-07 12:43:39
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Siren.Kalilla said: »
11-09-2012 07:11 AM
[BG source] [JP source]
Slycer
BG Translator
Regarding the Probability of Treasure Hunter Rising
Acerola
Bunch of questions about TH
(something something idk) In the post at this time I'll answer with some brief comments. Since various things can change the conditions, it is difficult to provide a single answer. There is an increased probability in the occurrence of TH level rising when the difference between the value of the player's TH and the value of the current TH level on the monster are further apart. Therefore, equipment that raises the TH level above the natural trait level will prove advantageous from the beginning of the battle or if the TH level has already risen. There have been requests that THFs would like to switch equipment after giving the effect of Treasure Hunter. Since this would reduce the overall value of Treasure Hunter equipment by diminishing the benefit in raising the TH level, we will maintain the current situation. Hopefully this answered your questions. Translated by: Slycer
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I take this as them saying "currently tping in higher TH gear equals higher TH over the long run... no just initial hit".
I have a quick flash to my TH gear in my ranged macro if im not using xbow (old habits die hard). I also have a macro that I can use to idle in TH gear if i care that the mob has TH. I always offhand thief knife because:

Phoenix.Tzol said: »

If we didn't need TH, i wouldn't be on thf so I should be getting as much as i can.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 12:45:18
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You'd have to give up supp earring to get koki on thf/nin.

That's just silly.
 
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By 2012-12-07 12:51:53
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 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-12-07 13:08:56
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Level/gear another job if you ever want to do VW.
 Carbuncle.Grandthief
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By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-12-07 13:35:24
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I really have to agree with what Burkey said, entirely.

You usually have to have very good gear and/or exceptional skills on the job, in order to even be recognized.

Now, gear doesn't make the player but then again, most players these days aren't very smart and just want to see cool things.

So, your best options would probably be playing with friends or trying to get into a nice shell that does a lot of things where they need an idiot to put TH on things.
Otherwise, you will, most likely, have the most fun adapting to what is needed when you come back and go with that.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 13:52:01
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Yeah, no. Gear makes the player...maybe 90% of the time. Good players will 99 their weapons. Bad players will sit on their 85 emp on their main job.
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 Carbuncle.Grandthief
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By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-12-07 13:54:12
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I really have to disagree.
If you put good items in the hands of someone who doesn't even remotely know what to do with them, I wouldn't consider them a 'good player' at all.

Not even if they had 3 gazillion gil and could HQ all the weapons they want.
They'd still have no clue after all.
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 13:59:14
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And I'd have to disagree with that, based on the fact that you're simply regurgitating pseudo intellectual nonsense passed around as conventional wisdom.

Outliers do exist, but they are very few in numbers compared to the overall player base and you should not use them to make such a broad generalization.

These days, just looking at a player is enough to ball park how well they'd do on the parse or how well they perform their mage duties.
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 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-12-07 14:01:10
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
Thief was actually a very strong dd for some pet parties I'd make in CoP zones years ago due to pulling one bat pet mob per minute, the thf could constantly SA for massive dmg. I remember preferring a thf to some other jobs often it just took better timing and back in the day lvl 15 thf could duo lower delfkutt pet bats easily for crazy exp

I reposted the pic because I thought it was funny and I gave credit to the original poster by quoting them. It is important for a thf to have good damage output (which is why I segregate TH mode and dd mode on my thf) but thfs are not normally there to be a DD. The days of plds tanking pretty much anything are gone due to SE's hate mechanics.
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By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-12-07 14:04:43
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Oh my..
Believe me, I've seen more than enough people that were geared very well, or at least had access to exceptional gear and threw it together in some odd combo.
Which never meant though, that they would perform as the gear would make you believe that should.

Since making empys and even relics is not much of a challenge, even for mediocre people, if they just have help from more of their kind or the amount of time/accounts, I honestly doubt that you can judge anyone because of their (good) gear in this day and age.

But that's, obviously, just my opinion on the matter at hand.
If you believe that everyone who has nice stuff is automatically a good player, then I kinda feel sorry for you though.

Edit: I've to add, if anything, you're making a broad generalization with your statement. Good gear = good player, which is complete nonsense.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 14:07:11
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You should raise your standards on what 'good gear' is.
 Carbuncle.Grandthief
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By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-12-07 14:10:22
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What exactly would you suggest then?

Since I've agreed with Burkey's comment, I'm fairly certain that I made clear that owning a Twatstar or a Mandau isn't nessesarily proof of being the best THF the world has ever seen.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 14:30:32
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I'm kinda sad that you even entertained such a notion by acknowledging it.

I'm pretty sure you'd be disheartened too if you saw a less experienced player say, "Just because a player owned all 5 pieces of af3+2, that doesn't necessarily make them the best player in the world" and they were being completely serious.
 Carbuncle.Grandthief
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By Carbuncle.Grandthief 2012-12-07 14:44:58
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Hehe. I suppose that it depends on how you look at it though.

If you have one kind of players who actually know what they are doing, just lvling a job and don't bother putting in much work into gearing it and another group of players who just gear a job because they have seen it elsewhere and think it's a good setup.
Which group would you, yourself, consider as more useful?

The ones that know their and multiple other jobs and also a number of events and mechanics or the group that just looks pretty in Jeuno and doesn't even know how to tie their own shoelaces?

Obviously, that is generalized by me now but it holds true for a lot of new players, that they are able to lvl fast, aquire decent gear quickly and still don't know much more about the job, than entering their password and login.
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 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2012-12-07 14:45:00
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Re: TH in Dynamis -- This is something I decided to test the other day.

Basically compared runs in Valk, cycling through the funguar/sheep/treant DC mobs, and had about 200 kills in each parse. Most runs where I do thf, I'll tag every mob with TH6 (ranged/engage/step/flourish), then melee normally. For the test run I set THMode to None, so everything was at TH3, or the occasional upgrade to TH4 (or TH4 from AF3 feet on anything I TA'd or used Exenterator on, but I was spending more time pulling than fighting).

All the TH6 parses I checked, the average drop rate on coins was in the 2.75 to 2.85 coins-per-mob range. In the TH3 parse, I got 2.82 coins per mob. Drop rate on Forgottens was also similar, though I didn't look at those too carefully.


There's a degree of uncertainty in it, but on the surface it looks like TH higher than 3-4 has no significant effect in there. I'm half-inclined to not worry about TH at all (except maybe on ranged pulls) just to avoid the extra blinking issues from gear swaps on steps/flourishes.
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 Carbuncle.Burkey
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By Carbuncle.Burkey 2012-12-07 15:02:06
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
And I'd have to disagree with that, based on the fact that you're simply regurgitating pseudo intellectual nonsense passed around as conventional wisdom.

Outliers do exist, but they are very few in numbers compared to the overall player base and you should not use them to make such a broad generalization.

These days, just looking at a player is enough to ball park how well they'd do on the parse or how well they perform their mage duties.
way to throw a bunch of unnecessarily big words into an elementary argument

i will agree with your last statement on occasion, but absolutely not always or mostly. i have seen perfectly geared wars with 90+ ukons try to proc a level one weakness on VW after a 5 stagger in which the thing would die in a few ukkos (amongst all the other ***) anyway. i have seen perfectly geared plds get killed WAY too fast because they decide that fanatics is worthless, or they dont know when to use them (morta plds). i have seen white mages with outstanding gear/gearswaps not cure for ***and let their entire party die. need i go on?

gear makes bigger numbers on paper, thats it. the skill of the player is not only 10% as you so claim it to be..that's hilarious you believe that.

also, your comment about 'good players 99 their weapons.' some people play this game to have fun. they are over appreciative and satisfied with a built empyrean weapon on a job they love that they dont desire anything passed that point. does not making it 99 make them a bad player? no. if they can beat the ***out of NMs and stay alive to get lootz, that's a-ok in my books. my best friends in this game are recently obtaining their 15/15 NNI gear, relics, 85/90 emps and other things. beforehand we were all a bunch of scrubs who enjoy each others company and play this game to have fun and not worry about uploading our pictures of leet damages on fodder mobs.

but anyway, this discussion has derailed so you win.

OP, any more questions feel free to ask
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 Carbuncle.Burkey
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By Carbuncle.Burkey 2012-12-07 15:11:13
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Fenrir.Motenten said: »
Re: TH in Dynamis -- This is something I decided to test the other day.

Basically compared runs in Valk, cycling through the funguar/sheep/treant DC mobs, and had about 200 kills in each parse. Most runs where I do thf, I'll tag every mob with TH6 (ranged/engage/step/flourish), then melee normally. For the test run I set THMode to None, so everything was at TH3, or the occasional upgrade to TH4 (or TH4 from AF3 feet on anything I TA'd or used Exenterator on, but I was spending more time pulling than fighting).

All the TH6 parses I checked, the average drop rate on coins was in the 2.75 to 2.85 coins-per-mob range. In the TH3 parse, I got 2.82 coins per mob. Drop rate on Forgottens was also similar, though I didn't look at those too carefully.


There's a degree of uncertainty in it, but on the surface it looks like TH higher than 3-4 has no significant effect in there. I'm half-inclined to not worry about TH at all (except maybe on ranged pulls) just to avoid the extra blinking issues from gear swaps on steps/flourishes.
you are basing your facts off of one none-th gear run? lol. you should always net more with more th, the randomness of this game is extremely random, tho. sometimes on dnc/00 i get 5+ x4 drops in a row, then a whole slew of singles. when i solo thf i rarely get single drops. come back when you do more runs please and perhaps you'll change my mind
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2012-12-07 15:12:45
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What's also sad is that people don't read anymore and just knee-jerk their way through life.

Which word was a big word, by the way?

BTW, GT, you're just rambling at this point. I think you're just frantically trying to remember what butt-hurt peoples say to defend against allegations of being terrible players. I have very little confidence that what you just said sincerely came from you.
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By Phoenix.Suji 2012-12-07 15:15:09
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Fenrir.Motenten said: »
I'm half-inclined to not worry about TH at all (except maybe on ranged pulls) just to avoid the extra blinking issues from gear swaps on steps/flourishes.
Didn't Byrth show some tests that steps/flourishes don't apply TH for some reason? There's a thread on the official forum. I don't know if it was rebutted somehow though; don't want to spread misinformation.

Also..
Carbuncle.Burkey said: »
If some believe thfs should main their th gear throughout an extensive fight they are rather uninformed; you do not need to do this.
You're out of the loop.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/113366-TH-procs
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