The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

No, the comparison is unevenly disproportionate. If you have Naegling for RDM, you have it for NIN. If you have a TP bonus offhand for RDM, you can easily make one for NIN. You don't look at a simulator and put the strongest weapon you have for one job and weak weapon you have for another job and say "RDM deals twice he damage of the job I have no weapon for". That's a very odd way of comparing jobs. If you want to use NIN, then you need to use a good weapon and compare dps. How are you honestly comparing crocea rdm to pre-ambu nin in good faith? You would either make a stronger weapon like Nariont suggested in Heishi Shorinken or use Naegling.

Thats why I asked for more context, something is off with the comparison. RDM benefits from being a native sword user, and NIN WS sucks, but for the sake of conversation, let's remove Naegling/Savage Blade out of the conversation. Are we sure Kaja Katana/Gokotai or Kunimitsu using Hybrids are weaker than whatever other WS RDM would use? Under magical-appropriate circumstances, I still don't buy it.

Because that's what the OP actually has? And that's what I was responding to. I'm assuming they may not have Aeonics easily accessible either, particularly due to the comment about maybe making a Kikoku as the next easiest "good" option for them. If you want to say top-of-the line NIN versus top-of-the-line RDM, that's not the discussion I was even having.

That said, from personal experience, my alt has mage/buff jobs including a well geared Crocea RDM that was her best DPS job for a long time. I have since gotten her NIN up to par (was initially leveled as an Abyssea proc machine) with Heishi and pretty good gear, though not as geared to the teeth as my main's NIN. And honestly? They're still on a fairly similar level, even if the NIN edges out the RDM by a modest amount on a lot of stuff.

RDM isn't as weak as people seem to think. You REALLY have to consider that massive increase in white damage from Crocea enspells on most targets. And then consider stuff like being able to shut mobs down with RDM enfeebles that make the fights a lot easier to win, even if you get more pure DPS out of a NIN.

You all know I'm a NIN lover, this isn't me slagging off the job. I didn't make 4 REMAs for NIN then gear a second one with Heishi on a different character without liking what the job can do.

But I'm also being realistic here for what you can realistically achieve if you're someone in a situation like the OP and mostly playing solo. For that play style, I'd pick RDM over NIN as a versatile "light DD" type.

I don't think anyone is claiming RDM is weak, I haven't seen anyone say anything close to that. OP mentioned ve1 ambuscade, sounds more like a change of pace kind of job than efficiency. If the bar is that low, don't really think the comparison makes much sense. Obviously their RDM is stronger, it's not like he's asking which one would be better, no brainer. But he also said he wasn't worried about DPS as much. So I only questioned the parameters in the simulator because half the DPS sounds very low even for their use case. I just don't see it which is why I'm curious where those numbers are coming Fein.

Also, my last post question. Are we talking about a weak WS on ninja vs a good one on RDM (Savage blade) or is the simulator including hybrid WS? I still find it hard to believe his NIN is still that comparatively weak with similar WS gear and hybrids in the mix

Goes back to the first line of my first reply: whether the player has access to Nyame r15+ is vital to answer this. If not, your hybrids on NIN, as well as your magical WS on RDM and Savage Blade on both jobs, will suffer. If that's your situation and you're looking at comparing your next best WS options - something like Blade: Shun or Ku versus, say, Chant du Cygne with a RDM? I'll prob take CdC, especially considering it SCs with itself.

Don't underestimate that RDM can pump up Naegling Savage in some other ways too. Gain-STR, and adding tons of buffs to take advantage of the Savage atk bonus based on # of buffs are relevant considerations. I still think Savage is going to be somewhat underwhelming too, if lacking good WSD gear, but all things being relatively equal, that makes up for some of NIN's extra WSD gifts and increased subjob flexibility. And RDM's stronger white damage (Enspells) can more than make up the rest.

And if we aren't "worried about DPS as much", I don't think NIN holds a candle to RDM coming with TEMPER II, Para/Slow/Bind (better than NIN's), Grav, Frazzle, Distract, Dia3, Sleeps, Cures, Barspells, nukes... I'd gladly do a bit less damage to get all those tools if I'm soloing stuff.

(and seriously, Daken for TP generation as a plus on NIN's side? RDM has Temper, that's WAY better)

Don't think OP cares about this, looks like they just want to play NIN and wondering how hard it is to gear for it. Like Nariont said, get Heishi, make a Gokotai (no, it's not that bad, more lies), make a Kikoku, or just use the Naegling you already have. You'll do fine on NIN.


You should read what I wrote in conjunction with each other, not separately.


You have to add it all collectively. I'm not comparing Temper alone to Daken, lol, I'm comparing jobs' attack speed, and NIN literally TPs faster.

What is Temper II TA rate? 38% TA rate (using my own 684 skill), using Malignance gear. 5% DA from Sherida Earring? so 2 extra attacks 38 times, 1 extra attack 5 times. 81/100 MA rate?

My NIN (right now) has 29% TA in standard gear using Malignance Feet instead of kenda+1 (dont have em). If I'm subbing WAR, 12% DA, depends on cape (not counting it cuz I use stp) 8 in rest of gear (epona's+sailfi+1). Then I have practically a guaranteed +1 attack to every single round (which I don't know how it factors into the formula so I will just leave it out and add the MA alone). so 2 extra attacks 29 times, one extra attack 20 times, 78/100 MA rate?

I haven't even added in Daken and that's already really close, so what do you mean Temper is "way better"?

edit; i should be fair and include R30 Bunzi's Hat since I was comparing to my gear, so 3% QA, 3 extra hits 3 times, so +9. so rdm is at 90/100, but Daken is going to close that gap anyways so it's still a similar attack speed rate between the two jobs

Malignance will serve you extremely well as a base to your generic hybrid DT set. Gokotai isn't a terrible weapon to be honest, to many people judge it harshly because it simply doesn't compare to something like Naegling... but unfortunately naegling is just disgusting and in a league of its own.

However to answer your question directly, Kenda+1 will serve you well for Shun as it benefits most from multi attack and WSC mods. If you have access to base mpaca, that may serve you better in some slots as it has attack+/tp bonus over kenda+1. Kenda+1 would also serve you well towards Kaja knife and evisceration sets.

If you aren't using Heishi, invest 5/5 merits into Blade: Shun, until you get Heishi.

Multistep skillchains are your friend as a Ninja solo, you can easily do 4-5 steps and burst at the end of it with the right equipment.

Blade: Kamu is trash, but any skillchain that uses Blade: Kamu can be replaced by Savage Blade. I have macros made for this purpose where my weapons swap each time to benefit the most for each specific weapon skill and Ninja still generates tp fast enough to do 4-5 step skillchains.

Big fan of Ten > Savage > Shun > Shun, or even Shun > Ten > Savage > Shun > Shun.

Thanks all, sorry if I didn't add enough info at first but appreciate all the discussions.

I totally don't have nyame r15+ (let alone base r0), I did plan to find a group to get the base gear since I keep reading (and seeing for myself) how potent the WSD on it is.

Anyhow yes I'm afraid I'm a bit behind on that and at most can work on JSE gear for now.

For aeonics I'm working on soloing geas fetes but it seems feasible up until the end where I'll need to find a party.

But yeah so far I've got the following gear:

RDM/NIN (master lv10)
TP/DT: Mostly malignance. DEX/DW Cape. Crocea Path C / Naegling with Kaja Knife or Thibron (depending on SB or CDC or physical vs magical).
CDC WSD: Some pieces of crit but still working on it. Crit DEX cape.
SB/Black Halo WSD: WSD/STR Cape. A few WSD pieces but also working on it. No nyame sadly.
Enhancing: Barely reacing 500 enhancing skill since still working on JSE, but it's decent for now.

With the above I can stay tanky, enfeeble well, spam myself with buffs and even solo enemies. May not be a huge achievement but I can solo mog on easy ambu this month without trusts, though it does take very long.

MNK/WAR (master lv15):
TP/DT: Malignance (or kenda + adhemar if glass cannon) with karambit, DEX/DA cape.
WSD: STR/DA cape for victory smite, otherwise for now I stick with TP set for multihits for most things.
Working on JSE for stronger damage but this is where my interests branch and I began looking at NIN lol.

My monk so far kills things quite fast, though obviously with barely any utility as a pure DD I can't survive if my trusts die, so while I can damage the moogle in E very fast, if my trusts die, I die (naturally). I've had occasions where monk did survive better than RDM purely from shutting down TP moves and mantra for more trust HP.

Anyhow, my NIN's gear is:

NIN/WAR (50 jp only, never practically compared its performance since the others have max jp)
TP: Malignance mostly, DEX cape, since I haven't built anything yet (but am planning to) I only have the DI 200 pt katana, though I use naegling atm for damage since it's obviously better until perhaps the final ambu katana or a REMA.

Don't have a proper WSD set yet, but anyhow as you can see, my NIN is very poorly geared at the moment. I asked the questions because I was very interested in investing in it. I remember enjoying trying it out in lower difficulty content. The aesthetics of the job feel great to me, as well as the shadows / evasion style gameplay (which I'm sure I'll need to also work on for sets to maximise), the multi-attack and rapid TP generation is great too.

Still reading through comments, but thanks so far.

Yes, altough someone could say that if you get a lucky WC refresh you can sport SV HM the whole run and at that point the difference betweeen Haste1 and Haste2 becomes irrelevant.

Personally I can say Refresh3 on PLD and WHM help a bit because it's less annoyance for the BRD which will generate more party DPS thanks to higher DPS from the BRD. But ok, it's a small difference.

With that said, while NIN hybrids are insane when you get the right families, let's not underestimate the WSD a RDM can generate (and 40% TA +50 STR always present in TP and WS is... quite something).
I feel the RDM also has an easier time against piercing weak and blunt weak families.
NIN can do something with those but his performance will be inferior to a RDM with Maxentius and Mpu Gandring, of course.

So yeah, I guess the type of families you get plays a big role here.

You are right, i forgot Hetairoi Ring, it is 40%, not 38%. My mistake.

RDM is a damn monster for what it is, so much flexibility.

-Croc for Magical WS
-Naegling for Slashing
-Prime/Relic for Piercing (Mercy Stroke is actually pretty nice at R15 with Temper II up and dual wield. It basically turns into a multi hit weaponskill and the augmented "Mercy Stroke" bonus applies to all hits.) Pair it with Gleti's or Crep and it's kinda gross in a good way.
-Max for Blunt
-Ullr for Ranged Piercing Damage (needs Distract first to make up for the skill difference. It's a great opener for Savage Blade too..) TP Bonus Sword works with Empyreal Arrow.
-Magic/Nukes for Ranged Elemental Damage

I wish NIN got tossed a damn bone. I love that job but I never really was able to justify using it over other things.

I am kinda salty one of our better support Katanas are locked behind a Mog Bonanaza.

Being able to give other DDs our shadows would give me a reason to actually bring the job to some content.

Hell what if we could pull a FF6 and buff other players with our Ninjutsu buffs..

This is the context I was hoping for, which changes a lot of what I was saying. Anyways, I think you'll enjoy NIN as a fun change-of-pace DD. Once you gear it up to it's potential, its enjoyable. I sometimes default to NIN when I just don't want to be hit or have to worry much about defense and I can focus on multi-step. Nyame R15 will definitely make the job so much easier to kill things on too, which shouldn't be too hard to get a Bumba V1 clear at this point. You can buy some pretty decent katanas with minimal effort (Kaja Katana/Gokotai + Kunimitsu).

No I was talking about Temper from pure skill.
Max enha skill you can get atm on RDM, including gifts, ML50 and merits, is 702.
700 skill = 40% TA.

But yeah I mean, 38% or 40% is not really a huge difference either way.

While NIN is not in an awful position compared to other jobs (especially in the past) I too feel it needs some love.
I fear the only way they could do that is by making major changes to Innin and Yonin but I doubt it will ever happen.

They could though do an across-the-board buff to Katanas in some way.
Just making so using a Katana is slightly better than Naegling would be good enough, if you ask me.
As of now that's the case only when you can exploit hybrids, alas.

I said it in the past but I fear people over these boards went a bit too far into praising Yagyu Darkblade.
It's an unique weapon for sure but aside from maybe a couple of niche fights, it doesn't really change anything in the mentioned NIN issues.
So really, no reason to cry rivers of tears just because it's locked behind bonanza.

Ship's long sailed on job fixes i think, could come back around but i have my doubts, if they ever did well i keep saying they just need to pick a role for nin and commit, none of this its a nuker but also a tank, but also a DD waffling where it feels like they dont wanna go too far for fear of making it too strong cause of its whole kit and so its just kind of middling in everything except dmg mitigation via shadows/miga

To be fair, the addition of stuff like Nyame gear as part of the current "endgame" did gave NIN and SAM the rather unique niche of being very effective hybrid WS specialists. And that's a totally viable role in a lot of the current and maybe forever "endgame" content: Sheol segments, Dyna, Omen, Apex CP, some Ambu, even Sortie.

Agreed that there is probably something to the idea they seem to fear making NIN too strong, though.

Can we blame them?
I don't think we can.

I'm not sure the real problem is "NIN can do too many things, they need to pick something" because, I mean, look at BLU or even better at RDM, they are extremely and I mean EXTREMELY versatile and can do a plethora of different things, so why shouldn't NIN be able to do the same? Yet it can't, as we all know.

I fear they lack ideas to make NIN unique and at the same time they are (rightfully?) afraid to make Utsusemi too strong again.
Still, they could at least do something about Katanas though. Seeing that thing happening to a job that atm can hope to be a DPS at best, is pretty sad.

A bump in TENs damage and acess Yagu Darblade not tied to a 1 in a million chance pretty much solves all of nins woes. Would give nin a much needed uptick in damage and a niche to tank in (assuming the enimity generated with dark blade is actually what it rumored to be). Anything above would make it broken.

I think a big issue regarding job adjustments is everyone is way too focused on damage being the primary adjustment and less focused on party compositions/contributions.

IMO, ninja does not need to have a damage adjustment, the weapon skills are what they are, the job is a skillchain machine, and has access to powerful hybrids if they so choose to invest.

What NIN should have is the ability to enfeeble just as good as a RDM. Give NIN the ninjutsu equivalents of the red mage level enfeebles. Including Dia, it has access to Aisha which is basically bio 2, its not incomprehensible. Give it all the good stuff, distract 2, paralyze 2, frazzle2, bind, gravity, addle, sleep dia 2 at least, even 3 etc etc.

This fits into the roleplay of NIN, and it also does not make ninja "too strong" again because all of these spells already exist. RDM keeps its job point spells allowing it to have access exclusively to Distract 3 and Frazzle 3, addle 2 etc and still has its enhancing/healing uniqueness.

98% of party compositions involve COR,BRD,GEO,RDM.... I would love more than anything to see a greater flexibility in this alone. If NIN was a viable replacement for a RDM regarding enfeebles, it would be a great adjustment to the job I think.

Again, I think you people give Yagyu Darkblade too much credit, treating it as it alone could solve all NIN's problem.
I'm afraid it wouldn't.

The additional enmity generated is cool but generating a lot of enmity isn't NIN's problem.
Even with Mythic or SU5 the amount of enmity NIN can generate is incredibly high, with Yonin up.
A NIN/RUN ML50 would be potentially the best job when it comes to enmity generation, even without Yagyu Darkblade.

The fact you're shielding close DDs with 3x Shadows is a nice feat but, as I mentioned before, other than in a couple of specific fights, it would mean nothing in the grand scheme of nowadays FFXI endgame activities.

They should really do a small buff to Katanas in general. Simply buffing Blade: Ten (which is already pretty close to Savage Blade, despite the awful SC properties) would be of course good but imho NIN deserves more than "just" that.

Yes, but don't you want one so you can have a macro that does:

/p "You get shadows! You get shadows! Every-body gets shaaadows!"

I like this but point out that RDM is brought for Haste 2 + enfeebles and their potency for distract and frazzle is very high compared the 2 versions of the same spells because of gear and job abilities. Haste 2 gets you another soul voice song out of BRD which will be a big deal. Dia 3 could get you into some parties.

If you look at what NIN has as a SC machine with HP traits then I'd want it to replace or team up with RUN to make nuking comps better. I'd personally brush off the debuff side of the NIN nuking wheel to make it another form of rayke. Idk how unbalanced rayke + tomahawk+ nin nukes would become but you can already land full potency helixes on v25s with just rayke + tomahawk. You'd also be spending 3 job slots on a nuking strategy that of those jobs only the NIN can nuke regularly but would also probably be spending 1 or more of their nukes during a burst window on an opposing element to enhance the damage of others.

The other way to go is make Futae last for the entire 1 minute duration so that you get into parties for SC + nuking. If they did it like they did for Saboteur, then part of the real value of the JA is that you get 20 ranks of magic damage +5 from job points for both your hybrid WSs and your nukes. Same way RDM can use Saboteur for more m.acc for nuking. I think this would be the better solution because it's more straight forward even though I like the first idea better because I like weird stuff that is more behind the scenes and poorly explained. Typical FFXI.

Why do you think more damage to Blade: Ten and access to shadows would fix all of NINs problems?

NIN's has no issue dealing very high dps; it has access to the most powerful line of Hybrid WS in the game, can use several weapon types (blunt, piercing, slashing), can Magic Burst while monsters have brief periods of immunity, and have strong option in Naegling like most jobs. While it's true that NIN's line of Physical WS are weaker than most other weapon types, they still deal a ton of damage really fast, while staying relatively protected from most single encounter attacks. They can SC with practically everybody at an insane rate. It's not supposed to be dealing the same amount of damage generally as MNK, WAR, DRK, DRG, and SAM, because those are an entirely different class of DDs. I have no idea why you think DPS is a concern for NIN, it absolutely is not.

As far as hate generation for tanking... honestly, give me a break. NIN is not a tank in modern FFXI, but it's not because they job sucks at generating hate. It's because they simply don't fit the style of tanking that FFXI endgame now requires. At best, they can substitute as an off-tank, similar to PUP. Those jobs struggle has issues tanking multiple monsters at once. If it's a single target monster that can be controlled (debuffed) and his TP moves are non-threatening, NIN can tank it just fine. Problem is, primary events in FFXI are Odyssey (Sheol + Gaol), Sortie, and Dynamis-D. Outside of single tanking fodder in Sheol, nearly everything in those events wipes shadows, and NIN is relatively squishy once shadows are down.

I recall RP charging an amp, and I used NIN for Sgili on V+25. Although I had no issue taking it down to 75% in a few minutes, the fight was an absolute mess; Every single Umbril TP move wiped shadows and hit me with disgusting enfeebles. I spent the entirety of that fight in yellow spamming Utsusemi so I wouldn't get crushed from melee attacks.

NIN cannot tank any of the Sheol groups en masse for Odyssey either, because they will rip through shadows in seconds and then destroy the NIN, and nearly none of the Odyssey Gaol bosses past T1 have much use for a NIN tank (except maybe Chapuli). Even the T1 bosses are problematic because they wipe shadows so frequently. Off-jobs like BLU or BRD can tank Sheols because they can benefit from defensive skills like Cocoon and Minnes, but shadows are a poor defensive option for mass-tanking, so NIN isn't used there for that.

In Dynamis-D, you can't mass pull for the same reason why it doesn't work in Sheols.

I haven't tried NIN in Sortie, but I imagine tanking is just a hot mess in there as well, since you won't have the benefit of your shadows, leaving you vulnerable. Also, most of the damaging moves (or maybe all of the moves, now that I think about it) are magical aoe. Shadows are useless there.

I honestly do not believe people are refusing to invite NIN to content because they don't have Yagyu Darkblade or can't deal higher WS damage. They get invited less because those roles are generally always covered by another job, and the meta forces people to think about jobs in terms of the best jobs for that spot, and only that. More of a player/culture problem and less of an issue with the job imo


I would agree with most of this here. I think NIN having access to another line of enfeebles on par with what RDM/BLU has would be reasonable (Para 2, Distract/Frazzle, Gravity primarily). The only line I would draw is that RDM should probably retain the highest enhancing magic/enfeebling magic duration. But yes, NIN would benefit from another set of enfeebling magic spells, though I doubt it would encourage more people to include it in things. It would be like a BLU or BST who has access to these various spells or pets but are so obscure, nobody really entertains the idea of including them unless a viable strat is built around them But I would welcome it for sure.

Well yes, RDM brings haste 2...along with all sorts of other enhancing buffs etc, but that can be resolved easily with a second march or even simply Haste 1 if soul voice is active or embrava etc (most fights that matter anyways you have SP's active for this reason and Haste 2 isn't necessarily as important). The intention is not to replace jobs, it should be to provide more flexibility where some roles are relatively interchangeable to some degree. Giving NIN a full arsenal of enfeebles allows this to happen and fills the role gap well.

Shadows are largely irrelevant in most content as noted by many above.

The job's damage is decent, its not on par with heavy hitters like war,drk,sam etc... but it shouldn't be... not every job should have the same damage potential... that in itself is an imbalance. If ninja could hit as hard as a WAR... why would I play WAR if I could also gain the ability to use shadows, cast nukes/magic bursts and enfeebles, and still do ageha for defense down etc. Job adjustments should be around providing some level flexibility... not so every job has the exact same damage potential lol

So expanding greatly on its line of enfeebling spells to be virtually on par with RDM is a very realistic and functional job adjustment.

The enfeebling thing like is being discussed would actually go a long way (dia 3 primarily is the big one, but distract and frazzle would be nice too). Jubaku hojo and kurayami just need to be buffed in potency as well, they’re laughable against anything that’s meaningful (gaol, sortie bosses).

The flip side of that coin, and I think I’ve mentioned it either in this thread or just on xiah in general, but the enhancing ninjutsu needs to be looked at too. Kakka needs to scale with skill, why in god’s name is this a static STP value still boggles my mind. Along with that even one more enhancing spell that offers party utility would be enormous. Even a haste 1 ninjutsu spell puts you in a situation where SV songs plus this spell caps party haste and opens up that other song slot.

At the same time you then change innin stance to give the ability to cast enhancing ninjutsu on other party members. Not AoE but single target (can’t invalidate the precious yagyu that’s locked behind a stupid *** lottery..). Lock utsusemi out of this if you want who cares, being able to give other members store tp, enmity down, haste 1, and subtle blow would change the job without breaking much.

That utility alone takes ninja from “nah just get a RDM” to “well we could just take a ninja…”


Futae being a stance and not single use also needs to be a thing. So many things about ninja are stuck in a decade ago mentality.


This is all pipe dream stuff because we know it’s never gonna happen but it’s seemingly pretty simple to fix the job…

Give yourself a break. Hate to tell you but no job is viable in every piece of content. I don't see drgs complaining that they can't enfeeble. Nin is a damage dealer with a niche and can do more then most because it can enfeeble (as laughble ss it is), magic burst and back up tank.

Giving it a stronger physical ws put it more on par with other DDs while still mataining it's superiority where hybrids are concerned.
This is why nins aren't meta. This fixes that. Maybe give some more viable dmg dealing jse gear too. Stop whining about wanting the world.

What are you talking about? Where did anyone say every job should be viable in every content? NIN is a DD that can fill multiple roles, but it's simply not superior to other jobs that have a singular role in that department. That doesn't mean it's weak, though. NIN's DPS with physcal WS does not need to be "on par with other DDs" because it is a different class/style of dps that isn't all about brute force DPS. It can already use Savage Blade, and it has a Prime Weapon that is stronger than Ten (but weaker than Savage). Ten is still very strong, it's just Naegling is very broken, most ignore it. I do agree, Katana WS in general could use a buff; if anything, Prime Katana WS damage needs to be buffed because that should definitely not be outperformed by Savage Blade. Make that weapon worth St5ing so you have a top tier option. But it doesn't need to be up there with like DRG WAR DRK, because it WS fast enough from relative safety, and then destroys those jobs when you can use Hybrid WS, so it's competitive on most things.

Nobody "wants the world" (actually, I was just agreeing with what Myamoto said but you quoted me instead of him for some reason?); he's the one that suggested it those enhancements to NIN, which actually make sense. It's actually not even that out of the ordinary, it's just enhancing the line of buff/debuffing ninjutsu spells to fit the modern game. Why is that considered "wanting the world" but making Yagyu more accessible NOT wanting the world?

Also, you said making Yagyu more accessible for hate generation would solve all of NIN's problems. Can you explain how? It doesn't address any of the tanking issues NIN actually has. Hate generation is NOT a problem for NIN except in like Gaol where it suffers from lack of sub job, but even then, Yonin still generates a ton of enmity with shadows, it's just that NIN is kind of bad in Gaol for reasons I mentioned above.

Somewhat making my point, NIN doesnt really have a niche identity because SE never really set one beyond nudging it to be a DD since its inception apart from being able to use shadows, which SE has nerfed to the ground largely since aby unless they bring back some older mob types such as dynamis or ambus that still only take 1-3 shadows on their moves, that was its trade off for being lower on the DD rung(though due to gear upgrades hybrids can carry it higher potentially) similar to what MNK was before they went overboard with the h2h changes.

Enfeebles are a nice route but iirc they were "Capped" on spell slots or something iirc(just get rid of some of the early drain blu moves guys), you could buff up what's already there but you cant encroach on RDM too much, and on the buff side even as an AoE nothing NIN brings is all that unique.

Could tackle it as a magic damage dealer, bump up the dmg of nin nukes, or changing its assigned debuff to be more relevant akin to a ja or rayke, or just a heavier meva down thats unique to it, making futae a saboteur type ability that just lets you fire them off for a minute~1:30, could even have it apply to the buff/enfeebles which with a nudge to their base could make them an okay alternative if a rdm isnt available.

DPS is the "easiest" to accomplish which is mainly just bumping up katanas dmg, could tweak sange/innin some to make them more appealing. Doesnt really fix it having issues finding a spot on the team since it still cant do burst DPS like the heavy hitters and its utility is limited

Tanking would just take a complete overhaul of how nin operates imo, as stated the job can hardly deal with 1 mob that wipes shadows constantly, in a group it basically has none at all unless you can floor their accuracy and even then due to the eva cap its a crap shoot, few lucky swings and those are gone too.

In general at the very least i think yo/innin should get their decay taken off or drastically reduced, also think NIN main should get some kind of SDT/DTII when shadows are just wiped off by the games current meta of AAs being aoe magic or just wipes everything phys.

But again, doubt any job fixes are coming, if they are itll be the most basic changes so you might get that katana boost, probably be it

I'd rather have it and not need it, versus not having it at all

Also crying a river? The *** are you going on about?

I was actually agreeing with you and wasn't snarky at you one bit

Prime being stronger than ten is where it's supposed to be on 1h jobs that can use Naegling. Naegling is for the COR and/or BRD and you make your stage 5 so that you don't WS wall yourself.
NIN would easily qualify as a real DD if there was hard content that allowed them to use their hybrid WSs.

Since they aren't going to do that, because of SAM mostly, they should really get a something to round out their ninja magic. If they were given AoE nukes like in the old FF games, then they wouldn't be penalized for multiple targets because they aren't elemental magic. They could also just make it so that Ninjitsu doesn't affect the nuke wall but can still magic burst...because sneakiness...provided by their stealth trait....

Ehr... I was talking in general about the countless people who whined and cried at not having Yagyu Darkblade as if that would "fix" NIN.
I'm not saying it has to remain bound behind Bonanza, I was just saying there's really no reason to cry so much as if that alone would be the salvation of NIN, because it's not.

It was a general comment, not specifically about you.
I apologize if it came out as a personal attack but I swear the thought didn't even cross my mind!