The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Just to save myself some time going forward: What are the more useful Katana weapon skills, and when are the most appropriate times to use them?

Chi, To, Teki if they work
Shun if you are underbuffed
Metsu with R15 Kikoku
Ten when you have 2000+ effective TP
Hi with R15 Kannagi and mainly if you want to self SC with Hi-Hi

EDIT: Nevermind!

Was looking at the wrong skill. Thanks!

There are like 3 floating around. At least one is in this thread... have to go back at least a few pages to find it though.

edit: Found it

Hey Buukki, noticed your comment in the Odyssey thread about having solid NIN ranged sets. Mind sharing what you're using?

Really interesting idea to do 2x Magian katanas for TP bonus and abusing Empyreal Arrow with Ullr, for situations like ranged/piercing damage on an 3rd NM in an Odyssey cycle where you don't have optimal jobs.

Ranged TP set I threw together:
ItemSet 382865
Notes:
- Adhemar Kecks +1 are path C (if you don't have those for RNG or COR, Malignance is a good alternative)
- I'm not interested in making an 8th NIN cape, so Sacro is a nice alternative for back and doubles as solid WS piece (particularly if closing a SC)
- Kustawi +1 and Kunimitsu are solid options if you don't go 2x TP Bonus katanas (I'd suggest at least 1 TP Bonus though)
- Donar Gun/Decimating Bullets if doing marksmanship stuff

Berylium Arrow lack of supply may be an issue for bow (Raetic Arrows are not a reasonable option either lol). Arrowheads are lv106 Smithing, the arrows themselves are Synergy with WW/Veteran primary. They're never on AH on my server, rarely even on Asura - so you're gonna have to craft or commission them. What's best alternative? Seems like a steep dropoff. Gun has it easier in that regard, since Decimating Bullet Pouches can be obtained from Curio Moogles for 18,750 gil a pouch (LOL at Asura people buying them for 400k a stack on the AH).

Preshot set:
ItemSet 382866
Notes:
- 70 snapshot to cap; Flurry 2 = 30 snap, Flurry 1 = 15 snap
- Taeon pieces can get Snapshot +10 (5 from Leaftip + 5 from Dusktip), viable in all 5 slots but gave some other options for body/hands/legs/feet for those who don't want to bother augmenting skirmish gear for such a niche use case.
- Pursuer's Doublet D is Snap+6; Manibozho Gloves are Snap+4 (so, worse than augmented Taeon... but easier to get for most people and might be sufficient to cap your ranged delay anyway)
- Other options include: Herculean augmented gear (max Snap+6 from Fern/Ranged path), Bastok Volte set (small amounts of Snapshot - 3 on head, 5 on legs, 2 on the rest), Nahtirah Trousers (Snap+9), Haverton/+1 Ring (Snap +6/+7) if you happen to have that.

Reasonable to think you might have a good chance of getting Flurry II for the kinds of fights you might do this way (e.g., Sheol Gaol), which gives you a whole lot more flexibility to make a capped set (Snap+40). Use WHM SCH in the more "traditional" setups, then RDM as your main healer for the fight using whatever's left - and assuming you're using a ranged strat, that should be mean not many people in range of the mob so single target healing on a tank is likely fine.

Flurry II is kind of a must because you'll also need Distract III to guarantee a pretty good racc on the parse. Our strat where thf is leveraging the 2x TP bonus daggers has a rdm that is also buffing (flurry II), debuffing (Full range), and main healing.

Ninja is about 60 racc lower than thf due to skill... so they need the help even more.

In terms of TP gear, there is a strong case for 5/5 Malignance because 50 racc + STP. Maybe 1 piece of AF +3 (so you can leverage Regal Ring for +15 racc, hands seem a good choice for that). Earrings would be basically what you listed or Crep. Earring or Dedition (if racc allows).

With the 2 TP bonus daggers, you don't care about overflow at all, so if you can sacrifice STP for more racc it's beneficial.

For preshot:
Where you don't need snapshot, rapid shot is good. Pursuer's Feet can give +10 if you don't need the snap from the feet. You would generally assume Flurry II here, so you can shoot for 40 snap, and then rapid shot where possible.

Thanks Shadowmeld, good advice.

Might also mean NIN would more strongly consider swapping one of the TP Bonus katanas out in favor of Kustawi +1 or Kunimitsu. Another more minor Racc swap would be Cacoethic Ring +1 in place of the Ilabrat in my set.

Right, 2x TP bonus is so ridiculously strong with Empyreal arrow it's worth seeing if you can do it though.

It's the difference between 6k WS spamming WS and 9k.

With Flurry II, this should be your best set unless there are some pieces I didn't add. Only uses one Taeon piece which is a really good piece to have for RNG and COR anyways, the rest are guaranteed augments. Though I'd rather have Taeon feet than Adhemar.



Without Haverton +1, I don't see a way for you to get 70 without a Flurry of some kind.

Austar, minor correction - your Pursuer's Cuffs are incorrectly saying Body slot. A mistake after my own heart, how many times I've wondered why my gear set wasn't properly swapping until I see that I'm trying to put gloves on my feet or something...

I would note that the nice thing about Adhemar (or other abjuration/Nolan augmented gear) is that you may have it already for other reasons, and it's nearly free to swap augments for a while then change back at will. Taeon requires the rather annoying augmenting process and then hogs up an extra inventory slot. Not so bad for something like Taeon Chapeau which, as you said, is still a really good RNG COR option. But eh... I don't need Taeon feet on my "real" ranged jobs (Meghanada+2's snap+10 takes care of that for RNG COR, as well as THF) so I'm not too keen on taking up the inventory slot for something as esoteric as NIN ranged sets.

And yeah, if no Haverton +1 you can't cap without Flurry on NIN. 63 max without Haverton: 10 each from the 5 visible armor slots + cape, and Snap+3 from Crepuscular Ring.

Anybody have a good NIN Empyreal Arrow set? Non-Nyame options/alternatives for those slots also appreciated, for us slowpokes without WSD+10 Nyame augments finished.

I havent finished my second Uzura, but I got basically the same sets you have above from Zetaking (who told me about the build). Havent gotten a chance to try it yet. Though I forgot NIN could use Sacro mantle, and I didn't think to use the Relic+3 body over Malignance. I went the lazy route (5/5 malignance, 5/5 Nyame, and the snapshot taeon/adhemar+1 route).

But I will take your set and try it out.

I do have a question. I know that Sange only activates with Shurikens, but you can still use the ability. Has anyone tested if the merits in Sange Category actually only apply to Sange Shuriken throws, or if you can still get the Racc bonus from any ranged attack. My guess is, an easy way to test it is to do /checkparam while sange is active with a bow, and then another checkparam when it is not active. Would be a neat way to steal a few Racc (and Ratk if you use relic body) for at least a minute.

edit: actually just tried it, doesn't work.

I'm curious what the draw of Relic +3 body over malignance would be? Am I missing something?

I mentioned it with the Sange bonus in mind, but I have Malignance 5/5 as my default set

TBH, I was just excited to find a place to stick a NIN JSE piece with good ranged stats when I was throwing a set together. But thinking about it more... I guess it depends mainly on:

(1) Whether or not you're using two TP Bonus weapons. If you are, every WS is going to be a 3000tp WS so there's no benefit to TP overflow above 1000tp, and

(2) If you do have TP Bonus+2000, it most likely comes down to whether or not the STP+11 on Malignance reduces your x-hit. If you do need the STP+11 to maintain same x-hit, go Malignance. If not, I would think the massive Ratk advantage for Mochizuki+3 (STR+15/R.Atk+79 over Malignance) easily outweighs Malignance's slightly better racc (AGI+7/R.Acc+3) due to the extra white damage. Especially in a build that's quite light on Ratk, that feels like a very good tradeoff (if you really need 8~9 Racc that badly to get an acceptable hit rate, I'm honestly not that enthusiastic about the setup to begin with).

And if using only one TP bonus weapon, Malignance prob has more value due to excess TP = more WS damage. Though I'm not certain how the extra Ratk+90~91 in ranged TP set compares to any TP overflow above 1000 when you're effectively already going to be WSing at a baseline of 2250 (one TP bonus katana + you'd surely want to be using Moonshade in your WS set for that setup)

You highly overestimate white damage in that scenario. You will have really low pdif on your shots. The whole damage will comes from WS because it has 100% attack bonus and also WS set will have way higher ratt (Nyame B) to begin with. I wouldn't focus on ratt in tp set at all, especially that it might depend on Samurai roll number, that Malignance body will or will not cut xhit, so you would need some big table with all possible rolls and manually toggle it when xhit cut applies. Idk about you, but I would rather full time Malignance. In any other scenario without 2 x TP bonus katana it's even more no brainer to use Malignance. Any tp overflow will easily outdamage potential white damage through higher WS damage, even with 2250tp being the floor.

Yes, and so I'd go with Malignance in the situation of not having TP Bonus +2000. Not surprising that any small advantage from higher white damage is well exceeded by tp overflow - but like I said, I haven't actually quantified the amount.

As for situations where you do have TP Bonus +2000, you're way overcomplicating things. You don't need a complex table or GS logic based on Samurai Roll. As a practical matter, in each set you're gonna reduce your x-hit by one, and one only, with ANY reasonable Samurai Roll. It's unrealistic to think you would shave TWO hits off based on buffs. Go test that yourself if you want. Remember to do a WS in your actual WS set to get that hit with different TP return. I'd be surprised if swapping just the body in TP set makes any difference at all in x-hit for any reasonable SAM roll.

In such case, why not use the TP option with a huge Ratk advantage over the one where STP gains you effectively nothing? A small Racc edge is the only thing Malignance has going for it if STP isn't doing anything. Make your own call there, but for me I'll go with 90 Ratk over 8 Racc.

Couple caveats:
1) You might also consider that if you're attempting a NIN ranged strat for a particular Gaol 3-NM run setup with the scraps left over based on the other 2 fights, are you going to have a COR in that particular fight? If not, that makes things even easier to analyze.
2) If for whatever crazy reason you were also meleeing for TP, that could change things and I'd go STP for sure. But you're clearly not going to be doing that on stuff where you feel the need to use a bow/gun on Ninja (and meleeing with TP Bonus katanas, no less).


P.S. - I'm actually on RNG at the moment with a COR alt and did a very quick and dirty test with effectively the same TP set (though I have no bow on me, so was using higher delay Annihilator - would be worth a check with Ullr or a same delay bow) and with (a) no Samurai Roll, (b) lucky #2 Samurai Roll, and (c) 11 Samurai Roll. As expected, no difference in x-hit by swapping Malignance with a different body with no STP in any of those scenarios; in each case, a SAM roll reduces number of hits to 1000+ TP by one and it wasn't a really close call. Go do a more extensive test (throw in a 7 roll, test PR+8 versus PR+7, whatever) if you feel like it, I doubt it changes

The point, since this is really for an underbuffed situation, is that you won't have capped racc. Our thf (Zetaking), with BIS gear, parses about 93% racc. THF (C-? or D) is at archery skill +60 over nin (E), so you may find that you just need to go full bore racc to cap your hit rate. He has made some easy sacrifices for more STP for the x-hit, notably he's running with dedition which is either a 17 point or 20 point swing in racc. I don't necessarily think NIN will necessarily have that leeway. due to the skill disadvantage it has.

I'd also like to point out that sans Malignance, Kendatsuba +1 is pretty respectable for racc too, but it doesn't have the STP to go along with it.

It's probably higher than that if you factor in the ranged accuracy from Ambush Merits and standing at the correct spot.

It would have been nice if they released an Ambuscade Gun to compliment the Bow. Could be the exact same stats with some MAB on it, with Detonator as the Weaponskill, and all of the Gun/Marksmanship jobs listed on it.

There are a few considerations that are external with regards to cor. One, are you also running with a SAM, that provides a bonus to to SAM roll. Rostam +8 or regal/lanun knife +7 being the main ones.

Assuming a regal neck cor and no sam, a TP set that doesn't consider racc at all and focuses on STP only (I.E. Dedition Earring, Chirich +1 rings), can get a WS + 3-hit with a straight 11 sam roll. But, falls short at 991 TP on a lucky.

Need either a sam in the pt, or crooked to get it with a lucky roll. But you're also sacrificing racc in at least 3 slots.

My calculations could be wrong, but here is how much STP you need in your shooting set for WS + 3hit build:

Assumption: WS in JSE +2 neck, Telos Earring, Yemaya Belt for + 16 STP in WS set.

I think this set gives the most possible without considering racc, which may or may not be viable: +97 STP
ItemSet 382871

Regal Cor/No Sam/No Crooked	Regal Cor/No Sam/Crooked	Regal Cor/Sam/No Crooked	Regal Cor/Sam/Crooked	Rostam Cor/No Sam/No Crooked	Rostam Cor/No Sam/Crooked	Rostam Cor/Sam/No Crooked	Rostam Cor/Sam/Crooked
100 STP Lucky (Don't think this is possible) 89 STP 11 (Need Andartia STP, 2x Chirich +1, 5/5 Maligance, Iskur Gorget for exact without second STP ear)	85 STP all rolls 77 for all but I and unlucky	76 for XI 87 for lucky 98 for X	72 for Everything	84 for XI 95 for Lucky	79 All rolls 74 All except Unlucky and I	71 for XI 81 for Lucky 92 for X 95 for IX	70 for All rolls

Edit: Note, I only calculated from +70 STP to +100. So it is likely that you could maintain a WS + 3 hit build below +70 STP on some rolls.

Edit2: It's possible that you would want to WS in Lugra Earring +1 for the STR (Empyreal has 20%), so that could definitely throw these numbers off.

Edit3: Please note that the set above does not consider racc requirements at all, and is really just to provide a baseline of what amount of STP is likely possible.

Crepuscular Ring is a direct upgrade.

Sorry, for some reason I was thinking it was +3 STP, probably becasue of the snapshot. You're right

If you're that underbuffed, then maybe it's just not that great to bother with NIN anyway. Kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel if you're saying NIN is basically "like ranged THF, but worse than that", and you're so starved for ranged accuracy that 8 racc loss is super important.

If it's that much of a racc struggle, maybe also not worth it to go with 2x TP Bonus even if you do decide to bring a NIN. Just make up that gap with a weapon with real ranged accuracy stats, at the expense of some WS damage. You're still gonna be WSing at no less than 2250 effective TP (and likely some overflow).

As for body, Malignance is certainly a fine choice. Just go with that if you want. Relic +3 sure isn't bad either though, even if you argue Malignance is better. Absolutely a viable option at worst, especially for those who may not have Malignance Tabard.

In any case, highly likely that whether you're using Malignance or not in body slot, you're getting a 4-hit without SAM roll and a 3-hit with it. So I still don't see the STP as a very big deal if you're rocking 2000 TP Bonus.

4hit is WS+3shots. You are not getting that without Samurai Roll.
Its 5hit without roll and 4hit with roll. Also it's possible to get to 3hit with Rostam CC XI Sam roll if you get SAM bonus too, use Malignance Body for rTP and use at least +6store TP in gear for WS. So yeah, there is chance to cut -1 shot with Malignance body with perfect Sam roll.

Also btw Fudo Masamune path A would have big chance to change 4hit to 3hit on anything but a perfect roll I mentioned. It could still be worse than higher xhit with TP bonus katana tho, because Empyreal Arrow has massive scaling between 2000TP and 3000TP. If you are significantly racc uncapped with 2x TP bonus on top of having worse xhit, then I think Fudo Masamune would easily win tho.

I’m not sure you understand the use case here. It’s basically for arebati in goal, but arebati isnt the first nm in the rotation so your not going to have your A+ buffs. Our group specifically has found a way to win with just a cor buffing and a rdm for flurry, healing, and debuffs, by utilizing rng, shootin sam, and shooting thf. Nin can basically take the thf’s place in this setup, but will have extra consideration due to lower natural skill.

In our group, the thf usually parses second behind the rng. This is primarily because last stand really sucks in underbuffed situations. Cor can win the parse, but it requires 2 successful resets of random deal for triple shot, and good rolls mid fight (not a lot of double ups)

As I said above, my calculations could be off but I didn’t see any combination of cor, cc, sam in party that produced a true 3 hit (with 2x TP bonus daggers I mean). Did I miss something?

CC Rostam XI SAM bonus Sam roll is +98 store TP. (40 + 10 + 8 * 4) * 1.2 = 98.4
Your set, except with Crepuscular earring instead of dedition is +94 store TP. Total in rTP would be 192.

Base TP from ullr with Beryllium arrow is 127

127TP * 2.92 = 370TP
370TP * 2 = 740TP
1000TP - 740TP = 260TP
260TP / 127TP = 2.0472

Which means you need +105 store TP on WS. You have +98 from Samurai roll, so you would need +7 more in gear (I wrote +6 earlier, this is my mistake, I forgot to round down each hit from 370.84TP to 370TP).

The wiki page for Ullr said it gave 105 TP/hit. I assumed that included arrows. that definitely changes my calcs.

+7 STP seems trivial in WS set. You're likely WSing in JSE+2 neck for Empyreal anyway. I think (I don't have any spreadsheets) you'd likely also WS with Yemaya over something like Fotia.