The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

This is totally fair. And I don't even particularly hate Apademak (I won't do Chloris/Glavoid kills though lol). Kikoku is indeed cheaper at roughly 100M to R15, and while relic kill trials are mind-numbing, I'm sure most people would consider the Empy NM farming worse.

For any NIN looking to start off with RMEA, it really comes down to whether you can get an Aeonic group (or merc, depending on if your server works that way). If so, go for a Heishi. If not, make a Kikoku. Then save Kannagi and Nagi until you feel a little crazy.
Yes I am intentionally ignoring the "LOL don't make any of them, just use Naegling" crowd...

Kikoku v. Kannagi
I really just wanted to point out that, for as much as people tend to dismiss Kannagi, if you look at the DPS differences, Kikoku and Kannagi are almost always pretty damn close. Choosing due to price tag is completely reasonable given that similar DPS output, so yeah, I totally get recommending Kikoku. But they're quite similar in damage.

If we go into a little more detail, some other more subtle Kikoku advantages:
- Slightly more flexible since Metsu is great for SC purposes, including better solo light SC in Metsu-Shun. Kamu-Shun (with crappy non-Nagi strength Kamu) is the only other 2-step solo light katana SC without Aeonic aftermath.
- Empy AM3 is more of a hassle to maintain than Relic. Though be careful to remember that it's not a question of Kannagi having 50% ODT versus 0% ODT; should really look at it more as a baseline of 30% ODT since that's what you get if spamming Hi at 1000-1999tp WS and totally ignoring getting AM2~3 up.
- Kikoku occasional paralyze proc counts for... something.

Should probably also mention that, to Kannagi's credit, AGI+50 base stat and AGI+20/DEX+20 from R15 augs also provide some minor advantages: better Daken Racc, a small amount of melee accuracy, and some evasion.

And finally, always important to keep in mind that without augments, Kikoku really lags behind. I've been assuming all weapons at R15, but Kikoku in particular really needs that juicy Metsu+20% augment. Ultimate augments helped Kikoku go from what was clearly a bit of a 2nd class RMEA to a very solid option.


Yes to all that too. Sometimes I fantasize that one day update notes will say they are swapping the stupid Gandiva/Jishnu DEX and Kannagi/Hi AGI attributes with a SORRY WE MESSED THOSE UP A LONG TIME AGO message.

And for lockstyle... yeah, lately I'm personally digging Kannagi lockstyle with Gleti's gear. But Nagi is the BEST looking katana fo sho.


Interesting, thanks for noting that!

I personally never found a use for Naegling unless there were two NIN doing a light SC. Which I was the Shun user for anyways since I had R15.

I'm a bit surprised by Simon's Spreadsheet results.
Given it's been a while since last time I tested it (before Odyssey release) I had Kannagi clearly ahead of everything else when completely devoid of buffs.
Minus maybe Naegling, which I probably didn't test because I hate using sword on NIN, but I'm pretty sure on the other katanas.
Wonder if there was an error in the SS that has been fixed since then.

I'm not exactely a supporter of Kannagi, not at all, and my posts on these boards are testimony to that, but at the same time I totally do remember my tests (and other people's as well) showing Kannagi way ahead in that specific scenario.

Yeah unfortunately Naegling just destroys every Katana in a high buff situation if you are not skill-chaining. I remember on the Mage Mamool Ambuscade a while back I was spamming 50-55K Savage blades consistently and then tried Heishi and Ten, and it was easily 10-12K lower WSD on average. I would think the only exception to beating Naegling's damage in high buff scenarios is if the mob is susceptible to hybrid WS's like Chi.

Some quick test with generic Kenda+1 TP gear, Apex 136 bat and no buff at all whatsoever except for: Haste2, Honor March, artificially capped acc.

Kannagi (AM3 up) > 2047 dps
Kannagi (AM down) > ~1777
Kannagi (AM1 up) > ~1939
Heishi (Shun) > ~1721
Heishi (Ten) > ~1645
Kikoku (AM up) > ~1810
Kikoku (AM down) > ~1702


Now when it comes to Kannagi I guess we should calculate median value between AM3 and AM1 because the spreadsheet doesn't take into consideration the fact that for keeping AM3 up you're wasting at least 2 WSs every 3 minutes.

I dunno what to make of these numbers, difference isn't huge and it's such an extreme scenario that, really, when are you ever gonna be THIS stripped down of buffs? If you ask me realistically never.

Also this doesn't take into consideration SC damage, which is a thing if you're solo. This would put Ten build further behind by raising the dps of all other options in this list (all the other setups make L3 two step SC, either darkness or light according to the WS chosen)



@Stifler
In my limited experience using NIN over the last months (Odyssey, Omen, Dynamis) Naegling destroys everything even when you're not attcapped or hyperbuffed. It's quite sad.
Hybrid can be nice in Odyssey segments, QUITE nice, but you need to be very good in knowing which of the 3 hybrid WS to use on which targets, and which targets you need to swap to Naegling.
If you do this flawlessly, it's a pretty clear DPS increase.
If you waste seconds checking lists or using the wrong WS on the wrong target, then the final DPS at the end of the run will sadly be lower than using a "regular" and much simpler to handle setup.
I guess having 2x monitors or playin in windowed mode with a table can really help with this approach.
It's less practical and requires more skill, but once you manage to pull it off I admit it has a lot of potential.

In a full party/alliance, probably not. Maybe trusts? I fully acknowledge there is a little silliness inherent in saying "yeah, use this ultimate weapon as your best option when doing stuff you can kill with trusts". But for example, Logical in his videos often does interesting solos of a bunch of content that can be a real challenge, with nothing but trust buffs! Sometimes it's just fun to do that kind of stuff, when you're messing around without an LS or party to challenge yourself.

And like, sometimes you're doing something like an Ambuscade or an Odyssey farm or NM with a few friends who just happen to be around and you might not have a perfect party setup, and maybe that's WHY you changed to NIN due to being able to function as a DD-tank or something :) Sort of silly reasons far outside of "optimal meta", but eh, I kind of like that quirky stuff too.

Honestly even trusts would be more buffs than that Capuchin. Could argue in content where you can't use trusts and you're completely alone and have to rely on Dualwield gear to cap attack delay (a luxury some jobs can't count on but it's normally easy enough to obtain for NIN).

But stuff where you can't use trusts is usually very old content where you're likely att-capped even without buffs, so we're sorta back to square zero.

Regardless of the possible realistical use, in those scenarios Kannagi is clearly ahead of any other option (except Naegling which I didn't test, because NAEGLING DOESN'T EXIST! XD)



I'm not even sure what I'm tryin to say here, people reading my posts might wonder what my stance is.
I guess that while I agree that Kannagi is a bad weapon (and I do own an R15 one myself!), Simon's numbers looked a bit strange compared to the tests me and other people ran some time ago, so I wanted to do some quick tests again, and that's all.



Edit:
Keep in mind that if SE ever adjusts Katana WSs and does something good for Hi, then Kannagi's position in the tier list could drastically change.

This is pointless. We are on NIN forum and talking about what's realistically possible with different weapon. It's not a) Im returning player i have limited gear, whats best or b) NIN is my 10th job, what can I do with limited gil and time etc.
I fully understand not taking Herculean DM augments or Bonanza into account. Those are things you can get, but you cant realistically expect to get. Mpaca's and Nyame is something you can expect to get pretty easily, if you work on it (if you have initial R15 wins on both NMs and both are quite easy, you can even finish those sets SOLO and definitely in a pug, since you only need to do 5%HP damage, which is stupid, but it is how it is). We want to know whats possible at the end, so we know what to expect. For me personally its easier to make Mpaca R20 piece than AF+3 piece.

After fixing Kikoku Aftermath and changing WS sets (left tp sets and R0 Gleti's dagger untouched) I was able to push:

Kannagi 2597
Kikoku 2668
Heishi/Ten 2615
Heishi/Shun 3086

For you higher buff scenario, I would add Samurai Roll, because it's pretty much guaranteed if you use COR already.
I see its set to 70% in examples you provided, so I will go with that.

Kannagi 5049
Kikoku 5619
Heishi/Shun 4494 <- Shun needs lots of gear changes for h. buff scenario
Heishi/Ten 6082

For comparison. In the same higher buff scenario (same TP set).
Naegling/Gleti 7201 (42% ahead of Kannagi)
Now if you can cap accuracy with Hitaki (In your scenario you are slightly uncapped, so I added madrigal)
Naegling/Hitaki 8255 (~63% ahead of Kannagi and you dont need to maintain AM lol. Its sad.) Even without Madrigal with slightly uncapped Hitaki, it's at 8000...

Naegling/Savage is sadly miles ahead for physical damage WSs in higher buff scenario. :Hi doing like 20k on avg in your 2nd scenario, while Savage with /Hitaki almost 46k. AM3 and slightly better delay can only cover small part of that huge gap.


Infobar

Is there any consensus on the best legs for hybrids prior to Nyame Path B and at what point in progressing on Path B you should change to Nyame in that slot?

I'm curious, as I've been swapping between the Relic +3 legs and currently unranked Nyame legs while I farm segments, trying to figure out which is the best to settle on. I find damage is all over the place, so curious what others have found.

Can't really go wrong with WSD+10, macc, and good attack. I would stay with Relic Legs until about Rank9 Nyame or so (maybe 1 boosted amp and a nq amp take you there). If you're using Hybrid in Odyssey C, damage will be all over the place if the monster happens to resist that element or magic in general, so it's not really a good indication of whether your set is good or not. But IMO, Relic+3 Legs is completely serviceable until you start getting decent WSD on Nyame.

Question on Hachimonji: What's the best way to gear for it? Full STP Malignance devoid of any MA (for guaranteed 127 tp/swing MA proc), high MA like Kendatsuba +1 with next to no STP, or a mix of MA + STP gear like Adhemar/Tatenashi +1/Malignance? Wondering if anybody has run the sims for that particular GKT and found what the best build would be. I have just been messing around with the few sets mentioned but can't really tell which is better for tp speed overall. Didn't have anything outside of trust buffs though.

Kind of a quirky fun GKT to throw out Hybrids on, or a quick Ageha is nice. Kind of a shame Ninja doesn't get access to many other GKT Options.

As far as TP gain is concerned your best bet is aim for around 40-50 total store tp and then stack as much multi attack as possible. You'll never really have efficient hit builds with the GKT especially with dakken so I just look at average tp per attack round.

Normal DA/TA/QA procs have priority over the GKT effect and will get full store tp but Dakken after the GKT has procced do get their store tp nerfed.

Lets ignore multi attack and Dakken for a minute. At 50 store tp half of attacks will get GKT proc for Double attack with 0 store tp and half get normal attack but with 50 store tp this means that you average 1.75 times your base tp for only 50 store tp which would normally only give 1.5 times base tp which is a large advantage with the gkt that goes away by the time you reach 100 store tp and you are back to only 2 times your base tp for 100 store tp. This means that while adding store tp after 50 still increases tp per attack round you get much less per point in the 50-100 range than you got 0-50 and so you may want to choose multi attack instead.

DA/TA/QA ends up improving tp gain by the same rate as usual for a given amount of store tp since they proc first and prevent store tp loss, the big problem for trying to run higher amounts of store tp is everything gets shifted when you add dakken into account. Since Dakken tp is hurt by the GKT proc but rate of throws is unaffected it can actually see tp gain per attack round from dakken go down as you increase store tp 50-100. However if you have a lot of DA/TA/QA you reduce the amount of GKT procs and can at least keep your tp gain per store tp added positive.

I go into it in some detail at the end of this video

Looking for offhands for Ninja starting off. No REMA. Been gone a few years and only have Izuna and Eletta which I just finished last night. Hoping to finish Kaja/Gokotai next week or two.

Just the Shigi? Is the Ternion Dagger +1 without aug worth the time? Would I be better off hoping for some luck with Kanaria aug?

Yea worth up keep it for a long time even for some rema”s or specfic ws”s ud use it

Base ternion+1 is still a fantastic off-hand

I hate to have to say it, but you'll probably see more usage out of Naegling.

Any thoughts on how mastery levels will impact NIN?

Some traits with the current cap:

/DRG + 10% WSD
/BLM + 28 MAB (possible increase in elemental casting?)
/WAR + 12% DA
/RDM + 20% FC

/drg got way better, for many jobs even due to access to super jump

I believe the cap is level 53 for a subjob right now. Compared to the previous level 49 cap, /war is now +12% DA instead of +10%; only a +2 percentage point, or 20%, increase, which will not really be noticed in most TP sets.

I think the most important change is /drg providing Super Jump. This is a huge deal as it now allows Ninja to easily trust-solo Kin without requiring the 6-month time-gated trust Monberaux. Without Monberaux or Super Jump, you'd have an annoying time balancing enmity levels for Target with just high jump.

I'm not convinced that's much of a significant improvement. High jump is a full minute shorter duration, so you'll get frequent use of it over time. If you're full timing innin and yain, your Enmity should be relatively low anyways. And without major buffs, you're unlikely to pull hate quickly, at least not until after the first target.

/Run and /Blu seems to have some buzz for extra perks. /Drk a little more attack, if you're into that route for stuff. Extra MP/HP extra magic base stats means subjob spells may be more potent across the board (at least for current content)

For the time being its probably the best overall increase utility wise for multiple jobs, run gets you valiance, another mdb trait and acc bonus 1, war is 2 extra da, drk is 1 tier of atk bonus(13 extra atk). Think those are the noteablr ones for now

I was referring to high jump exclusively for the Kin Fight

So super niche but nin can get about 25k empyreal and 20k refulgent on fodder mobs, and on apex crabs with just trusts it was getting around 21k emp/9k ref. You need a ton of ratt for refulgent sadly to get to 20k on them and without proper buffs it is just not happening, plus /rng....

I had on 2x 1k tp katana to ws at 3k tp always. Seems decent dps for a 1k spam ws and has ok sc properties (just not with itself).

Overall was kind of fun to see it did even that well considering even on fodder I do not get physical ws getting over 20k at 1k tp often. While not really useful if you can actually melee since your white dmg will be crap. It does allow you do do some decent dps while weakened or unable to engage a mob.

That takes me back to NIN/RNG 60 cap Ballista, where Slug Shot was the biggest destructive force around.

Yeah whole time I kept thinking of ballista lol. Seems like uncapped you might do this too.

Can Ninja make Umbra, with or without bow/gun? Never heard it mentioned before, usually just radiance.

super jump op

Yes, but it involves doing Shun not as part of the skillchain (just to activate AM on Heishi) and :Hi isnt a strong closer, especially with Heishi.

With AM1 Ku > Retsu > Hi > Hi
With AM3 Hi > Hi

Probably use blade: ten for step 3 but ye.