The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Amen.

Ah-nin.

Ah-nin



Cheesin it vs coeurl and earth weakness but again w/just trust buffs I'll take it

Very nice. FYI I'm in the middle of testing Chi and To setups so i will have more to add to this conversation soon. I had to finish my vids on the physical ws's first. Our gear setups aren't that differnt with the exception of me using differnt body, hands and feet. I am using a herc wsd5% body with 10 str OR a Gyve Doublet as body and my hands are magic attack and magic acc +47. Using Hachia Feet. So you have a bit more multi attack going on then me and I have a bunch more magic attk. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out, I'm finishing my tp bonus katana today so parsers aren't far off.

Right on

if you go route of:
gyver doublet (47mattck)
your herc gloves 47mattck (score those are nice :p)
hachi +3 feet

i think your set will only be about 6 more mattck than set i posted

Herc boots are nice because they do come with 10mattck already on them before any oseem action.

I've goofed with tp bonus some and while the obvious benefit is nice I'm not 100% sold on it depending what you're doing. Pretty sure the offhand hit is used in the phys multiplier portion for magic damage so if it's low base damage or misses hit it'll show. But again not 100% on that and curious to figure out some sort of bis action, but guessing that's going to vary a bit based on target and buffs.

It is, but it's more than that. It's potentially more than 1 hit.

If you check this post:
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/53301/february-2019-version-update/7/#3409595

When you dual wield your offhand hit becomes your 2nd multi-hit proc check.

So there's a lot of damage potential in your offhand if you double/triple attack that hit because it adds to the base magic damage. The crazy spikes tend be triple attacking both hands.

There's been speculation that WS Damage gets applied twice, to the first hit as normal (which increases the base magic damage) and to the magic damage part too. I don't know for sure would need testing.

Ahhh ok that makes a lot of sense, thanks for info

I've been thinking (and using) a bis will look something like:

Main: heishi (tp bonus, high base dmg etc)
Sub: debatable but favoring gokotai myself
ammo: seething bomblet
Head: relic +3
ear1: up for debate: probably frimosmi, but maybe lugra or brutal?
ear2: moonshade tp/mattck
Neck: up for debate: leaning towards fotia but sanct/jse?
Body: up for debate: I kind of adjust this slot based on fight needs eg acc/attck couple pieces to choose from herc, adhe B, relic, rawhide. Again if we could just wear sacro breastplate that'd solve a lot of problems ._.
Hands: herc, though layline not too bad especially if want to move stats around like accuracy
ring1: up for debate: leaning towards epona, but regal/dingir/wsd?
ring2: gere ring
waist: orpheus's sash
legs: relic +3
feet: herc
back: jse cape acc/attck/str/wsd?

When it comes to herc then there's the whole question of to go after wsd or DA. I favored DA myself, since herc already comes with some MA and it jacks up #'s I just decided to run with that. w/o MA procs damage still solid it's not like yo-yo'ing really bad damage then a 99k etc.

interested to hear what others are using/think/ideas

We need to confirm few things.

1. Does multi attack proc add +1.0 fTP per each additional hit on Katana hybrid WSs for physical component? Or maybe it was ninja (pun intended :P) changed to replicated fTP of first hit.
2. I assume WSD is first used to increase base physical component, then its used again to increase magical component? So basically 40%WSD would actually increase total damage like that x*1.3 + (x*1.3)*1.3 so its way more potent than for physical or magical WS.
3. Where is Magic Damage statistic in calculation for hybrid WS???

I'm starting to play with this myself so would really like any insights you have. This video that someone else made recently should go into the formula.

https://youtu.be/Dke7383EaLw

The set he shows looks similar to mine... only real pieces I'm playing with are
Body: Gyve is giving me best results in my parser but I also have a weak herc body with str9/wsd5 but no magic attk. Thinking if I had same augments with +25 magic attack the herc would be winning but those are dream augs.
Hands: Using my magic Attack +47 gloves... these beating my wsd5% with no magic attack hands. Do we think wsd/str/magicattk hands would indeed beat them?
Ring: He shows epona/gere but I'm not getting as much return on multiattack on in my parsers as I'm expecting. I'm getting better numbers with dingir/epam or gere/epam.
Feet: I have herc feet 5% wsd with no magic attack... very close to my artifact feet in parsers but assuming if I could get a magic attack augment along with the wsd it would easily beat it.
Neck is also an odd one. I seem to be getting best resuls with JSE Neck followed closely by Fotia and with sanctity far behind.

Just some things I'm noticing on my first day of parse'ing, much testing yet to do but thought I'd share my initial findings.

That helps. He really needs new mic, but his explanation is perfect.

Ok I pretty much made sheet that calculate Katana hybrid WSs, but still need to make it more public friendly. Also Im not gonna add items to this for sure, you will need too calculate your STR, INT, MAB, WSD, Mdmg, Affinity and type it in manually.

Sounds great! Thanks!!!

Damage seems way too low in sheet compered to what I see on those screenshot. Not sure what Im missing or maybe formula is wrong after all. Its a little closer if I apply WSD to whole physical portion, but even then it seems low. Idk would be good if someone could make some testing on targets that takes neutral magic damage and with capped attack and at 1000, 2000 and 3000TP. Then provide me WS avg from each TP threshold, highest spike with 2xTA and STR/INT/WSD/Affinity/Mdmg in WS set. I need to compare real numbers to sheet numbers.

Super stoked to see some kind of spread sheet to tinker with.

The screen shots I shared were just to kind of show it's viability with minimal (trust buffs) so some items I can think of that would skew numbers unless accounted for:

-Innin: The Morimar ~62k Blade: To, I use a trust tank in SR solo to dodge some of the annoying enfeebs. meaning I get to use innin and when using the relic+3 head that does give you some WSD w/merits (max 5%). Ody however, I don't bother with a trust tank
(yonin).

-Star Sybil Trust: Also in all the screen shots I'm using Star Sybil trust which adds in some mattck

In terms of return on MA, the set I posted is sitting at 24% DA (/war) and 12TA which might be why I see more of a return on it. Throw in a fighters roll from trust buffs and it bumps that up even more obviously. Gyve doublet has nice mattck but pretty low str and zero acc/attck, I'm sure you could rework some other gear around to make it work but it's important to have that phys hit portion do so for max dmg- which is why in low buff situations I'll sometimes get more milage changing body out for something like relic+3 or adhe B from aug'd herc.

When goofing with sets, I'd usually tag apex raptors (don't have to worry about defensive buffs for trust to dispel) and I'd say 30k-40k dmg was easily pretty consistant around 1500tp.


I'm curious if you're getting better results w/jse neck logic due to low acc or if you're super attacked capped then buffing that phys hit by 10% is giving you a better return?

For Hybrid WS the easiest way to test magic portion of the damage formula is to use on mobs with invincible so you only have multipliers to the mdmg stat and remove most of the variability.

Of course that still leaves the physical portion and the fTP multiplier out, for those you'll need to do a lot of parsing.

Using your set:
- applying WSD to whole physical portion
- 2250 effective TP (1500+Heishi+Moonshade)
- 39%DA (with max fighter roll)
- capped attack (which probably is not a thing on Apex with trusts)
- counting Fotia twice for physical and magical
- with 19mab from Sybil
Im getting like 23839 avg :Chi (assuming Apex Raptors are 100MDB). 2x triple attack proc doing ~39367 and no multi-attack proc doing ~17714k. Seems low.

tbh just looking at your Chi in the video, done on gob with invincible, is enough actually. Throwing your TP from that WS and Mdmg from Heishi, not knowing your Herc augments (but the ones I assumed are probably close) and +50% bonus I'm getting around 1100 damage, so its close enough. I think there is actually more unknowns for physical portion.

Hmm yea I think something is off then just went and smacked some raptors. Blade: Chi only and at 2250tp+ (3000tp heishi + moonshade), Star Sybil and innin

Not all ws had berserk up and not always dd rolls since qultada likes to throw out an evokers if someones under like 80% mp...

Obviously more sample size is better and to try to isolate variables like buffs, but again just went out quick and came back with:

WS Average: 48436 (51s)
Which is a bit higher and again not always optimum conditions.

Highest # I saw was a 71012, and just eyeballing mid 30k to 40k seemed around norm

Gear was what I posted page back w/herc body, r15 heishi/gokotai

edit: oops did just see you put 2250 effective tp based on what I was trying to recall before, when I went to test now just figured be easiest to make it static 3000tp

Yeah something is off, Im getting only 31380 for 3000TP and thats with capped attack and fighter roll. Also Double TA only doing 52222. I think I will need to make testing of only the physical part somehow.

out of curiosity if you're sub sch can you aoe
ninja enhancing magic? at work right now or I'd try

No. Ninjutsu is not enhancing magic, and the description on accession clearly states white magic.

Doing some testing on Poxhounds right now, the spikes can get crazy that's for sure. Highest I got was 78k blade: chi

I tried taking screenshot but windower screenshots didn't save them, actually it looks like windower screenshots just doesn't work at all?
weapon: r15 heishi/fudo
buffs:
chaos+wizard roll
shiva+ifrit favors
ifrit warcry
dia2

edit:

Urgh I've been testing for a while today on Raptors with the same weapons you mention and same gear. Obviously I dont have exact herc mods you do so Ive substituted as previously mentioned. I seem to be averagign about 30k. I get some 40k and got one as high as 60k but those were very rare. Majority of them were from 26-33k. Had Joachim, Qultada, koru, Monberaux and Star as trust, Innin, was behind, berserk was up... highest average I saw all night over a series of mobs was like 35k. Wish I understood what I was doing wrong as I'm not seeing numbers near what you guys are, mine are closer to the numbers Simon is coming up with.

Maybe a stupid question but do you know if Dia III was up? I usually use King of Hearts since he seems to prioritize Dia more than koru.

My guess if you're sitting around similar mattck, then the other part would be the physical portion.

Yeah, Im using KoH too for everything related with farming fodders or fights shorter than 30sec. He casts Dia III instantly.


I assume you was doing it at effective 3000TP too?

Great questions gentlemen as I really want to understand what I'm doing wrong here.

Yes often Dia III is on the mobs however as you mention, I have noticed Dia III makes a pretty dramatic difference and when it is up Chi consistantly does much more damage. I'll try some more test today with KOH to see if he's more johny on the spot with Dia... I normally don't use him as he messes with my Skillchains.

In regards to TP, yes 3000 TP... well 2250 to be exact as I have Heishi/Moonshade. I've tried setups focusing on WSD, MAtk, Multihit and all seem to end up in that same damage range I speak of. I mean the only pieces I don't have that we are talking about is the specific Herc augments for Body, Hands and Feet. In place of those I'm using Gyve Doublet, Magic Attk 47 Hands and Artifact Feet. I know you have quite a bit more multiattack which should help make your spikes more consistant but we are talking under 10% difference so I really wouldn't think there would be THAT much of a difference. I'm going to go out again right now and do some more test. Just can't help but feel like I'm missing something here. Thanks for trying to help gentlemen.

OK thanks much for the tips guys. It really does look like KoH was a major change as this morning when I'm using him I'm not noticing any of the low damage issues from last night and now seeing proper differences between the sets. I am now averaging 46-48k WS averages on raptors with my highest being 81k. I am now seeing the major importance of multiattack in this setup. When I was focussing on MAtk along (gyve setup) I was capping out at about 33-35k WS Average. By swapping in Adhemar Body, Gere Ring, Brutal, Epona, Adehmar Feet, Fotia I've boosted it to the 46-48k WS Numbers. Going to refine more today but finally on the right track. Will report back later again with findings for the day but as of now order of importance for this ws appears to be

1. Matk/Multiattack (Good mix)
2. WSDMG (I know it helps but I'm getting best numbers by removing almost all of it)
3. STR/INT (Really not seeing huge gains from stat bonsus's)


Question... gavialis helm... thoughts? I know our head option is already super strong but wanted to know how pepole thought this may compare. It would only be useful on ice and earthday yes?

81k spikes after removing almost all WSD and with so strongly reduced magic attack? wtf is happening here lol.

I have no idea honestly. Its super weird and there is something wrong for sure in physical part formula.


When you do your tests, look out for earthday and earth weather btw. I think those works for hybrid WSs too.

Yea this is the most confused I've been when testing a WS but it's proving enlightening. Will watch out for weather/day. Todays test were during lightning day.

By the way, I finished skillchain gear testing last night with capped skillchain bonus. As you suspected there was no real gains and in many situations losses in DPS and even SC DMG. Shame. :(

yeah pretty sure MA.. since its similar to jinbu .. might as well test with all MA gear and see?