The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

No? I meant to quote you :P

My point was that even in the situation you noted as not a good fit NIN (pure physical damage), which really is one of the worst places for NIN, it's still not THAT bad. People seem to always want to trash NIN's offensive potential, but even in a simple "hit the mob and spam physical WS" situation, it's generally in the same ballpark as other "light DDs" or jobs with some hybrid use (THF, DNC, BLU, etc.). You aren't using any of those jobs for a <60 second zerg fight, but any of them are just fine for a huge portion of current endgame content.

I'd still happily take an offensive buff, but it really doesn't need some massive boost to be where it should be, a notch below the 2-handers/MNK who focus on pure damage. Arguably it's already there now, since NIN is a lot better in offense in the not-too-uncommon situations where it can utilize its tools like tacking on significant nuking damage or using hybrid WS. And it comes with strong defensive benefits, ability to tank some stuff, etc.

You shouldnt really put DNC there XD DNC has one of the strongest physical zerg potential among all melee jobs. The only problem is that it requires gearswap feature that you can WS without engaging.

I know all of this, lol. I haven't said otherwise, that was the other guy. I simply responded to his claims (that ninja weren't worth a party slot); and the only area you could argue it falls behind is where it can't maximize all of its tools, ie magic nukes. Key word was "argue". I'm not ONE of the people who think it's a bad DPS, I'm just realistic. Ninja being able to use all of its tools is a very good functional job. Not sure why you are directing those points to me though, those were his points not mine

The point I do stand with is, unless you're buffing it for hybrid, it will fall behind other jobs in the light DD category. Dancer or Blue with mythic will usually be ahead of Ninja unless it is using the hybrid. But it's not that significant to be with an issue.

hey guys, got 2 of the su4 katanas (no way can afford 2 fudo much less 1) wondering if they were worth it to upgrade for path b for a super SB rate, and path c for a better tanking option. (other katanas are just shigi, kikoku, gotaki, and the diabolo one)

I think we might do dyna very differently (which is totally fine, lots of different strats). Can do wave3 clear with ~1.5 pts depending on your set up. Kind of wild no cor or rdm at top of parse.

When I said worth a pt slot, I meant I can do all the things you mentioned nin doing while on another job AND offer pt utility at the same time in terms of a buff/debuff for the group. I think it'd be awesome if ninja could also offer some sort of group utility since it's not near top of dd list.

But I suppose that's not really a problem just inherent to nin given meta of 'support' jobs being able to do crank out solid dmg which makes pure dd almost a bit moot in a lot of cases.

Anybody mind sharing a Blade: Ku set? Haven't seen an updated one in a while.

Also, do you guys use Lugra+1 in Hybrid WSs?
When the latent is active they provide a pretty nice boost to the mods, but no mab. I think Friomisi probably wins here, on a hunch, but I haven't tested anything.

LS mate said he parsed #'s and at night time came out pretty close, although if anyone has some math on it'd I'd love to see.

I think if the mods where a higher % it'd beat out friom

Su4 is still the #2 tanking mainhand IMO, so a big yes to that one if you care at all about being able to tank. Even outside of party when the enmity doesn't matter, the ninjutsu recast is really nice for Utsu/Miga.

I think path 2 has its uses too. It's niche, but Subtle Blow +70 & Yurin definitely has applications for low TP feed fights. And it's respectable DPS with the FUA, high base DMG, acc/racc, and atk:shadows gimmick.

TBH, you'd be able to cover all your bases for every ninja niche with that katana collection.

Got lucky with a Gyve Doublet today but I’m thinking it’s probably just gonna be lockstyle?

I know Logical’s video said it’s BiS for for all nuking situations but I can’t see how it can overcome samnuha’s MBII Damage +8%. It’s also lacking magic Accuracy. All it has over samnuha is 7 MAB.

42 MAB vs Macc 38, MAB 35, MBII +8

Pretty sure NIN can take advantage of breaking the 40% cap with samnuha, or if it can’t that +8 will help reach the cap.


Edit: Gyve has 19 more INT which I guess can be a factor?

Tl;dr Has anyone with gyve and max samnuha done any testing and have some data around which is better?

logical did, int plays a huge role in nin nukes.

Gyve is BIS for free nukes. Samnuha is what I use for bursts, or maybe I need to check my sets. Pretty sure I use both

Just went back and checked the video and logical lists them both, which is how I have my macro setup

Free nuke bis: gyve
Burst bis: samnuha

This makes sense. I almost never (ever?) free nuke which makes the Gyve Doublet kinda a meh piece...cool to have I guess.

Depends what you fight.

If you fight things like Slimes which have a normal -PDT (or stuff that takes extra MD), magical attacks work great and it is actually faster/safer than TPing.

In Odyssey, the Slime NM Gloios is pretty rough once he uses his Fluid Spread move, so feeding him TP is dangerous. But you can take him down in about a minute just spamming free nukes in rotation (which feeds him close to no TP).

I use Futae + Free nuke set to take down statues in dynamis, which can usually hit around 28k+ or so. It's also something I might use in a quick fight starting out, just to give me a little damage, since I will never get to land a MB and it's worth using if only once.

Another use are things that use perfect dodge, invincible for a period of time. It might seem useless, but nukes can hit on average around 8k on most things in a max MAB set. A lot more with Futae. It has a use, just have to use it strategically. I have found myself using free nukes on more monsters, just so I can see how the damage compares. If I am free nuking, I just use Ni over San since it is such a faster spell to cast and the damage is similar. Since NIN s veiled in endless shadows, fighting things without engaging and just spamming ninjutsu nukes is still a modern strategy to use for some things here and there. Should try it out.

Share your Blade: Ku seeeeets

I hardly use it. Ochu might be the superior offhand, idk.

ItemSet 374422

Which Aug on Cape? STR+30/DA+10 I guess?
Have you tested Sailfi+1 to be better than Elemental Belt?
Which Aug for Adhemar Head/Body/Hands? I guess B.
And for Rao legs?

-STR/DA cape would be the ideal piece of course but I didn't go out of my way to make a cape just for Ku since its tied to a non-RMEA. I just use my DEX/DA Shun Cape

-I didn't test the belt, but I used it because of the attack and multi-attack. I assume Fotia would be great but I like the chance at Multi. And anytime I would be using Gokotai main would be to take advantage of the DW<-->Regain stat, which probably means I am low on attack/buffs so that was my reasoning for it

-Yes

-Path B for STR/DEX/Attack. My reasoning is the same as second bullet, that chunk of attack is useful.

I could be off, and it's not something I use a lot of the time, but it's what I have for the few times I would use it. Things like the ammo can easily be upgraded to orb+1 or seething+1. I just went with what I had.

Yeah a couple of those things I don't have, I'm certainly not gettin them just for Ku lol

Thanks for sharing!

Check with Logical, he would have a better set for sure. It's really just a regurgitated Blade: Shun set, but with Ku, I accounted for the lack of attack Bonus I would get with Shun and made small changes here and there. Someone smarter should spreadsheet it to get true BIS pieces but I wouldn't actually use Ku when attack capped with all the buffs anyways, so it seems to work out fine for what I would use it for.

I think Buuki's Blade: Ku set is pretty good, but a few notes - mostly focused on significant differences based on whether you're capping atk or not. Usually I err on the side of not assuming capped atk (unless you're talking like... Omen trash/Dyna wave 1 level mobs, with full COR/BRD/GEO buffs).

Swaps if you are capped attack:
Ninja Nodowa +2
Malignance body
Malignance hands
Samnuha Tights

Slot by slot comments assuming uncapped attack:
Hands: Mochizuki +3 when uncapped. Buuki's choice of Adhemar +1 B hands is not too unreasonable though - even if they aren't best, they do well in both capped (where they do lose to Malignace) and uncapped (where they lose to Mochi+3) situations.

Legs: I agree with Buuki's pick of Rao +1 (B), best if uncapped atk and a close 2nd to Samnuha if capped. But if you don't have Rao+1 and aren't interested in making em just for Ku... Mochizuki +3 are very close behind.

Feet: Mochizuki +3 when not attack capped, Ken+1 when capped.

And a couple of accessory notes (capped or uncapped):
Back: If you aren't interested in making a STR/DA cape, I think the next best choice is going to be STR/WSD (which you probably already have for Blade: Ten). I get that beating DEX/DA in virtually any scenario.

Waist: Fotia should be best, significantly better than Sailfi +1 R15.

Ran some quick tests for Blade: Ku.
Ran all of them with Gokotai MH because I assume it's not even worth to use Ku without it, so who cares if results are different for another MH weapon, right?

Target: Apex Bat (136)
Scenario1: Capped att, Capped Acc, Capped Haste, no roll, no boost spell.
Scenario2: Like Scenario1 but ~1500 att away from cap.


Scenario1 changes:
Unexpectedly JSE neck+2 produces an increase over Fotia. We're talking about a ~900 difference, so pretty noticeable.
Fotia Belt is ~700 above Sailfi+1 R15.
Brutal Earring = Mache+1 (wut). Lugra NQ beats both of course, but only with latent active and honestly *** that.
STR+30/DA+10 cape instead od DEX+30/DA+10 cape is ~350 difference, wow... way larger than I expected, but *** that.
What surprised me even more is that the STR/WSD cape outperforms DEX/DA, this shouldn't happen in my opinion.
I even went to doublecheck that Blade: Ku had the FTP carry option active.


Scenario2 changes:
Of course Fotia Neck is better this time.
The strange part is that I get Mochizuki+3 beating both Adhemar body and hands, by a pretty large margin too. Odd...
I'd stick to Adhemar honestly, swapping to Mochizuki for acc maybe?
Sailfi+1 R15 and Fotia I get them pretty close but with Sailfi slightly better.



edit:
Wrote this post at the same time as Capuchin, sorry Capu didn't see yours ><

Yup and we mostly came to the same conclusions :)

I think attack matters a bit more on Ku, it's almost like MNK doing well with high acc/atk pieces (e.g., relic+3) on something like Asuran Fists. That should also be a factor in STR+30/WSD back beating DEX/DA. And when you're capped attack, like Buuki said, I'd prob be using a different WS anyway so...

FWIW, I'm not convinced Ku is worth using even with Gokotai. Gokotai/Ternion+1 with Blade: Hi probably wins even for pure WS damage purposes, and that doesn't include easy Darkness SCs with Hi. I don't think I have a proper Gokotai-Ku spreadsheet though, so I have some difficulty getting theoretical numbers. I may go mess with it in practice just to see what actual numbers I parse, but with an admittedly not quite optimal Ku set (using Gokotai), I wasn't that impressed with it versus Hi/Shun.

Gokotai :Ku numbers with optimal set should be almost on lvl of R15 Metsu. Like around 23k or something.

Ok so I was wrong with the back slot. I'm confused at that but interesting. I didn't include mochizuki+3, I was under the assumption that multi attack would fare overall better. That's pretty neat

I don't really take a blade ku set seriously in the end. There's probably a few fights like Geas fete or whatever where the regain woke probably be useful in between fights and the frequent waiting around. The attack cap scenario I never envisioned using it for but the extra pieces of mochizuki actually give them a few more uses.

Thank you

1) And you sacrifice Metsu's great SC properties (one of the main draws for Metsu, TBH).

2) And it's probably a worse WS than Blade: Hi even with a Gokotai mainhand (at the worst for Hi, I can't imagine it being a whole lot lower), even before you factor in Hi being much better for SC purposes. IDK what assumptions you made to get to "23k" since WS damage will be highly reliant on target & buffs, so would be interested to see what you think Hi (particularly with Gokotai/Ternion+1 as your weapons) would do in a similar situation.

That was my assumption as well and it's exactely why I'm so surprised about these results, to the point I'm wondering if there's something wrong in the spreadsheet or if I did something wrong.


@Capu
Blade: Ku, I gotta admit, works pretty well with Gokotai. I originally got Gokotai as an OH but I was quite surprised about how nice it performs as a MH.
About Blade: Hi I'm a bit... I dunno man °-°
Without Kannagi it seems to me Blade: Hi isn't exactely the best WS around eh, maybe at low buffs AND when you can make use of Innin.
But then again wouldn't Heishi's Shun be better in those situations?

Still you got a point that Ku SC properties are meh, but then again in a lot of group content situations SC damage and SC properties are pretty irrelevant so I dunno, YMMV I guess.

I have never got Hi to perform anywhere near the other ws's, and I have pretty top end gear so /shrug.

Likewise Azagarth, but then again I lack a lot of Cdmg options and I don't own a Kannagi
(...yet!)

Yeah, WS is definitely mainhand weapon dependent. It's pretty straightforward for Kikoku (Metsu), Kannagi (Hi), Heishi (Ten or Shun).

But the best choice for Gokotai/non-RMEA mainhands is the real question. Ten's gonna kind of suck, Metsu isn't available, so it comes down to Hi, Shun, or Ku (with Gokotai only) for WS spam situations where you aren't considering SCs. Leaving hybrids out of this for purposes of this discussion.

If you're doing solo stuff or darkness-SC friendly things, that's probably a good reason to lean toward Hi. If you're participating in a light SC (say, with Savage Blade), Shun may be your pick. Pure WS spam though... IDK, maybe Ku does it? I've been less than impressed with it on my own Gokotai though. Maybe I need to go back out with a better WS set than I was using while messing with it a few weeks ago, I could definitely make some adjustments. I should go poke some mobs tonight with Gokotai with each WS and get some more real world data...

:ku sc properties in group arent bad. Thry are partner dependent. For example you can spam darkness with rudra, torcleaver, fudo or expiaction which are all meta relevant WSs.

Solo you can also technically do:
Ku > Ageha > Ku
Ku > jinpu > Ku
Ku > Retsu > Ku

Maybe not a perfect skillchains, but still better than 3x Ku.