The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

It's a good question! I admittedly play /dnc very little these days and haven't really since making this lua... I'll give it a test as yes I bet your right! Will give it a test and report back.

So I just did some test and it looks like it doesn't matter if you use it precast or midcast, it works either way. Tried without gearswap and I did not get the Waltz boost. Tried with gearswap precast and I got the boost. Tried with gearswap midcast like I normally have and I got the boost.

A while ago, I was told to use fast cast precast and pretty much everything else to have midcast so that's what I did. But based on these test I think it just works either way. If you specify it precast... then it will still be on midcast unless you have a specific midcast command that changes it. And if midcast is used then the gearswap change will be put into the packet before the action so it should change the gear before the action occurs.

At least that's my basic understanding and appears to be confirmed by the basic waltz test I just did. Someone please correct me if they have different info on this.

I tried your spreadsheet but I'm getting the same results I was getting on Langly's spreadsheet:

Kannagi R15 capped att:
Ryuo+1 D (23163) >= Ryuo+1 A (23110) > Mummu+2 (23034)

Kannagi R15 ~1300 att from cap:
Ryuo+1 A (21132) > Ryuo+1 D (20910) >= Mummu+2 (20895)


I'm not entirely sure the differentiations you're making with DW.
You're not gonna be equipping lotsa of DW gear (possibly the Relic+3 legs) in your WS set and the DW you have in your TP should not directly affect the damage of your WS.
I mean it indirectly does if you consider overTP etc, but that's a pretty wicked way to be evaluating "which piece is better for this slot and for this specific WS?".

Yep I'm agreeing that those are the winners. I just found it interesting that the DW sets didn't have Path A as the winner even though attack isn't capped. However, I'm playing with it right now and it appears to be entirely accuracy related...so never mind! Looks like your general rule is the right one... attack capped - Path D... attack not capped Path A. Just gotta be sure accuracy isn't coming into play.

To be entirely fair the difference is so small, like Capuchin said before us, that I'm not even sure it's worth discussing so much.
Especially at Capped Attack it hardly makes a difference, we're talking about two digits lol.

Difference is a bit more noticeable (in favor of A) when att is uncapped, but still very small.


Tl;dr
Have multiple Ryuo+1 and lotsa inventory space? Get both
Want to pick only one? Get A
Don't want to bother with 25m cursed pieces? Stay with Mummu+2 and you'll be fine, really.

Yep agreed
Yep 100% agree and understood. Just wanted to make sure I properly understood it before I made final decision on what to recommend for set. Thanks for talking it over with me.

I have R13 Hieshi and Kikoku, and toying with the idea ok making a Kannagi...mostly out of boredom and because I love NIN despite it's crappy place in the meta. Also because the recent Blade: Hi discussion piqued my interest. What kind of numbers are you guys (I know Capu is a big fan of Kannagi) seeing with Hi in moderate buff situations? I have a pocket GEO so I am always with at minimum 900skill fury/frail.

Mostly hesitant to make one so because I don't really know if there would be any practical situations where I would actually use the damn thing over Heishi and/or Kikoku...Heishi is in my mainhand 90% of the time as it is. The gil dump may be better off going to a fudo path C maybe *shrug*

I can't comment on R13+ Kannagi since mine is only R1 and I can't fairly compare it to my R15 Heishi/Kikoku, but I expect Kannagi and Kikoku to perform about the same at R15 in most situations, with Kannagi winning in Amnesia+AM3 fights and Kikoku potentially winning in low-attack 1000TP WS spam fights. R15 Heishi should beat both of those in a normal situation. If gil is an serious issue, then you'll definitely get more use out of Fudo Masamune Path C's Accuracy, Attack, Ninjutsu recast time, and Enmity bonuses than you will out of an R15 Kannagi. Hopefully somebody with all a full R15 NIN can comment with proper testing, though.

As much as people don't want to consider it, Naegling+Hitaki already beats R15 Heishi and R15 Kikoku in almost all accuracy capped situations anyway. I can't imagine it losing to R15 Kannagi or R15 Nagi either. If you're also haste capped and have a chance to self-skillchain, then swapping between Naegling+Hitaki and your Heishi+Offhand to make single/double light skillchains with Shun+Savage or Savage+Shun+Shun should be your go-to setup for maximum damage. If you're just WS spamming with a bunch of other DDs, then Savage Blade would still be best.

Yeaaaa......they really need to fix NIN WSs. Using a sword on NIN feels so bad.

Be a real Ninja and Self SC > MB x2 your own damage :3 (and dont bring nin to zergs)

Don't complain, nin can stay far away nuking around 3k. A nin should be using its tools like a real nin in anime.

Who dug up Chyulas corpse and brought it back to ffxiah?

Super duper quick messing around with Kannagi/Hi spreadsheet showing me new Ternion +1 with full augs (dmg+17 acc+40 m.acc+40
wsd+5%) is an improvement over offhand Tauret, likely best new offhand. I'd imagine that's probably also the case for Heishi/Ten, Kikoku/Metsu, Nagi/Ten or Kamu. Worth looking into further!

Anyone know Raicho +1 augs? I'm interested to see if they made it into something with a useful niche (tanking?)

Looks like Raicho got dmg acc macc and mdb for some reason

I mean it fits the theme but it's very lackluster

[1] DMG +20
[2] Accuracy & Magic Accuracy +40
[3] Magic Defense Bonus +5

This is surprising to me. Can you run it against a Kanaria with AGI10/ACC15~/ATK15~/WSD5? Only reason I ask is because the only thing the aug is giving ternion that it didn't have before is 5 WSD, other than the accuracy and base dmg which I don't think would sway the DPS significantly. Unless it's a combination of all these things + the low delay that now pushes it over.

Yeah, ninjutsu nukes are pretty underrated by a lot of people, though we're picking up on it here. For anyone who hasn't been paying attention, Logical's recent nuking gear video is very useful.

I've been grinding away on my B path Fudo Masamune in Dyna (we'll see if I can get it to R25 tonight!), making some pretty great use of nukes. Last run, hit a Futae ~87k Hyoton MB on wave 1 boss with no buffs to speak of other than Idris GEO-malise from the other party's GEO. 30k+ MBs without Futae. That's with no Wizard's/Warlock's rolls, no Indi-spells, no boost-INT (or... Etudes? lol), etc.

I also tend to Futae nuke statue pulls that we aren't COR 1-shotting for over half of their HP. Can even go straight over to start meleeing an engaged mob while continuing to nuke the statue until it's dead (reducing downtime, which is pretty important for Dyna).

Of course, in lowman or solo situations it's also super helpful to tack on very significant MBs any time you see a SC. This is a big part of why I'm a lot less enthusiastic about things like spamming Ten or SB, since (a) they tend not to be as SC-friendly, and (b) if you're in a party WS spam situation where there are few SCs, NIN's raw WS damage falls behind other jobs. If I want to spam strong WS, I change jobs. If I want a more precision approach and can SC+MB, NIN holds up quite well on the DPS front.


Gross. I was kinda hoping they'd play up the magic defense angle more. Toss on some MDT- and Meva and I'd have been pretty interested in it as a tanking offhand. Oh well, one less thing to need to worry about upgrading!

I get even the base Ternion +1 beating that OH Kanaria. So the augmented Ternion definitely wins. Non-augmented Ternion loses by a little bit in WS damage to the Kanaria, but delay reduction is significant enough that it's a clear win. Once you add augments to Ternion, it wins by a little bit in WS damage - so obviously pulls away even more for total DPS.

People have always been sleeping on Ternion +1 being good for NIN! Pre-augments, it was always a competitive high end offhand for Kannagi, I used to use it before Tauret existed (and now I'm thinking that even with Tauret around, Ternion was probably no worse than sidegrade territory for most situations). Now it's really strong.

Again though, I haven't had enough time yet to dig into how it performs with other weapons/WS (though I have no reason to believe it won't still be a very strong option). But Kannagi/Hi for sure, it's a great one - and probably plays the most to that setup, thanks to AGI & WSD for Blade: Hi.

EDIT:
Testing with Kikoku/Metsu, I get Ternion+1 R15 slightly edging out Tauret for a offhand. Maybe harder to justify the investment for the fairly minimal win just for Metsu purposes, but Ternion+1 is super useful for other things so looks easily worth the effort. I'm also quite interested to see how Ternion stacks up for stuff like RDM BRD THF DNC RNG (should be really nice for melee RNG + Savage Blade, and probably also strong for melee + Trueflight/Wildfire).

Also tested with Heishi Shorinken, and Ternion+1 R15 seems to beat every offhand except for Hitaki (TP Bonus +1000) where acc isn't an issue. However, at significantly uncapped Acc, Ternion+1 looks to be the best offhand even for Heishi.

For non-RMEA, I suspect this will also mean Ternion +1 and Blade: Hi is going to be the best DPS combination.

TL;DR = Ternion +1 is a VERY strong offhand, BiS for a lot of applications. It's definitely one of the more exciting pieces added for NIN in a while.

FWIW, I've also never been able to get that much success with WSD Kanaria offhands. I have a DEX+10/WSD+7% Kanaria, and a DMG+18/DEX+10/WSD+3% one... never been able to get them to beat my DMG+11/STR+9/TA+3% Kanaria. Closest they come is sidegrade/slightly worse than the TA+3% one for some Blade: Metsu use cases.

The only problem with Ternion is lack of racc, but it has some AGI at least, so it's actually better than Tauret for that. Another problem is lack of att. I guess that Tauret losing slightly was still with both weapons at attack cap?

The one other issue I see is the lack of magic damage that all of Tauret, Gokotai, and Fudo Masamune have in large quantity. That's definitely going to hurt your nukes/MBs, and won't be reflected on a melee oriented spreadsheet. So, I will probably still be using one of those weapons when I want to be able to MB a lot.

But when you run into situations where you're really just focused on physical DPS with no/few nukes thrown in... yeah, Ternion +1 looks like where it's at, aside from acc capped TP Bonus offhand situations for Heishi (or probably Nagi) mainhand, spamming Blade: Ten.

As for my quick testing, it's starting to run together for me at the moment but I think it's the same ultimate decision whether or not you're attack capped.

Oh, and from further tinkering... it looks like Ternion +1 is winning (or at least sidegrade) even for situations where you're using Blade: Shun, which takes no advantage of AGI and relatively minor impact from WSD. Something like Tauret still does better on WS damage alone, but total DPS = Ternion +1 edging out Tauret.

Long time lurker, I've see some people share their hybrid builds or others asking so I thought I'd share mine and interested to see what other people are rocking. lolnin so usually only have trust buffs but on most junk mobs (apex,ody, etc) can pretty consistently hit around 40k (1500tp+ range) with some spikes to 60k+ (actually have managed to hit some 99k's with just trust buffs as well). I focused more on multiattack than wsd as that'll put your numbers through the roof. The accuracy is a bit light so have been kind of thinking of swapping to nodwah+2 which should be solid and not even be much of a dmg comprimise as long as you're attacked capped but again, since I'm on nin, so that'll usually mean trust buffs. They screwed magic burst with last update but I guess if we get to innin and use hybrid ws the update has minor upgrade with wsd on relic+3 head... still would've rather had old higher mb #'s.

ammo="Seeth. Bomblet +1",
head={ name="Mochi. Hatsuburi +3", augments={'Enhances "Yonin" and "Innin" effect',}},
body={ name="Herculean Vest", augments={'Mag. Acc.+20 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+20','"Dbl.Atk."+4','INT+8','Mag. Acc.+10','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+15',}},
hands={ name="Herculean Gloves", augments={'Mag. Acc.+16 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+16','"Dbl.Atk."+3','STR+9','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+15',}},
legs={ name="Mochi. Hakama +3", augments={'Enhances "Mijin Gakure" effect',}},
feet={ name="Herculean Boots", augments={'Mag. Acc.+18 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+18','"Dbl.Atk."+4','MND+3','Mag. Acc.+3','"Mag.Atk.Bns."+12',}},
neck="Fotia Gorget",
waist="Orpheus's Sash",
left_ear="Friomisi Earring",
right_ear={ name="Moonshade Earring", augments={'"Mag.Atk.Bns."+4','TP Bonus +250',}},
left_ring="Epona's Ring",
right_ring="Gere Ring",
back={ name="Andartia's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},

Originally started exploring hybrids after getting heishi for self sc because kamu has always been complete garbage for me. As well as hoping to find some situation in which nin can do comparable dmg to other jobs. Usually to > teki > shun>shun or can add in another step w/ teki first for self sc.

The problem I've run into is getting these high #'s on some upper level content or even Ambu N+, something doesn't to translate (mobs w/mdb?) and dmg will probably do around shun or unfortunately sometimes lower. I imagine Bastok[D} would be a good time for ele based dmg+ pulls.

ps. can we collectively hit up official forums or something and make request? Something as simple as a ~20% defense down shuriken and make ninjuitsu debuff work like gambit would make nin worth a pt slot again. I love to play nin, just never get to use it in group content and if I do, usually feel guilty and just end up swapping to a job that'll benefit pt and 9/10 do more or at least the same dmg. I think katana has to have the lowest dmg weapon skills now minus maaaaybe staff? And I refuse to go savage blade spam (unless something like onychophora) when I could just do that on another job and offer pt utility at the same time eg cor, rdm, ect

oh i actually like that idea!

a line of shurikens with different debuffs on them? give them their own debuff slot too so they can stack with other things? that would be neat as hell. give them like a minute long duration or something? make a toggle so you can switch to different debuffs for daken once you see one land? id say one for EVA/MEVA/DEF/MDEF would be a nice move.

i think that would for sure breathe some more life into ninja for the party scene.

You need to be all things ninja and learn all the tricks and ways. Ambuscade Great Katana and predebufed with Tachi Ageha.

I have learned after watching Logical's video, tinkering with my sets, and adding 2 nukes to every SC, elemental ninjutsu is a collective of the jobs entire damage potential and every ninja should be including it into their routine. Yes, it is weaker than other damage dealers, but it's not always the slower killer. It does not need to be as defensive due to shadows, and magic burst damage accounts for about two of ninja's WS, and more with Futae. If you are solo or creating a skillchain, it actually comes out much better than jobs like my THF and even DRG, because I ignore defense and can go all out.

The only part I could argue is that you probably don't need to bring ninja to groups where you can't use MB because it will always be last, unless you buff hybrid WS

have it, would like something more practical though not to mention doing that on even 1 or multiple mobs would be a hard dps hit on nin when the jobs already hurting

yes, solo it's fun to mb and it is solid dmg (most of the time)- it used to be even better before they goofed aug's on relic+3

Was still able to hit about 63k Futae nuke on an Odyssey NM with relic+3 feet (and MAB merits), so it is still useful. Didn't have any MAB buffs like Malaise or Acumen so I could probably cap damage if I had an Idris GEO with me. It just depends what you use it for. I wouldn't bring NIN to something I can brute force on my MNK, or stun lock on my BLU. But for things where I want to control the battle defensively while going all out offensively, NIN does niceky. Just did all 5 AAs solo with trusts using Innin/Yain. It is still quite useful lowman, I hope it gets a buff soon REMA SHURIKENS

Never said mb'ing isn't good or has no use. Yes, it's fun to mb junk mobs and can be potent, I'm aware and use it often. Kinda not what I was getting at with that part of the post.

You're right. Ambu mobs can have some seriously high magic defense. This month the JPs list the qiqirn boss as having 350 and the qiqirn adds having 250. It's maybe a bit higher than usual because we are supposed to skillchain them.

Last month it says the Dullahan had 200 and the Ixion had 320.

It probably scales with difficulty and those are the VD Values.

Those values are too much to overcome I think. And that's before checking if they take good elemental damage from earth, ice or water.

Compared something like the Wave 3 boss that only has 100 magic defense base and even with 50% geomancy resistance it can't stop malaise from reducing that pretty substantially.

I mostly agree with you in your last couple comments, and in general your views on NIN are pretty consistent with my own...

But I'll call out that NIN isn't as bad as people seem to want to insist even from a pure DD perspective. As an example, I recently went to Dyna in the same party (same buffs) as an excellent THF for a wave 1-2-3 farm. Final whole run parse numbers, we were neck and neck for the #2 DPS slot (I actually slightly edged him out, but honestly could have gone either way based on luck with engages), and our monster DRK was #1. This isn't OMG THE BEST DD territory, but it's also not utter trash.

And that solid DPS comes with several additional advantages (much like THF gets some perks with TH and some enmity control, or DNC with good debuffs & waltzes for emergencies, or BLU and its bag of magical tricks - none of the jobs are supposed to be 1-trick ponies that do damage and nothing much else):
* I was able to drop major MB nukes on the wave 1 statue
* I had the ability to instantly tank any NM if needed
* Extremely safe DPS thanks to shadows/Migawari and high Meva/DT gear in either my default Ken+1 set or Malignance gear.
* Great hybrid WS potential if buffs are right for it.

I wasn't even taking the most advantage of NIN, since I wasn't able to use regular MBs to supplement NIN's somewhat lacking katana WS damage, and wasn't using ideal weapon setup (was working on leveling a Fudo Masamune in my offhand, and mostly paired that with Kannagi R15 mainhand). Prob would have done even better with Naegling/Hitaki SB at least for part of the run, a different offhand, a hybrid WS setup, etc.

While I wouldn't complain about an across the board buff to katana WS, I also kind of get why S-E might be reluctant to do that since NIN already does very good combined damage when you factor in white damage (higher than the average DD), WS damage (lower than the average DD), and MB nukes (MUCH higher than the average DD). If you're only doing a super short zerg fight and skewing hugely toward WS, then yeah... kind of a no-brainer that NIN isn't going to shine. But it's... kinda fine for the current content most people spend the majority of their time with: Dyna, Odyssey, Omen, many Ambuscades, etc.

I usually find NIN more fun, and more flexible, than my more zerg-focused and excellently geared Masamune SAM. I'm on NIN a heck of a lot more often and I don't feel bad about that.

I think you meant to quote the other guy? :o